Disappointing results with filters

merv

merv

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Mervyn
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Went out the other night to practice using filters in the hour before sunset but came away a bit disillusioned with what I call poor very dark results as shown by the photo below
Set up my D810 on a tripod and used manual settings. The first thing I did was balanced the sky with the land and applied a 2 stop Lee ND Grad.
Then, to blur the water, I put on a Lee Big Stopper and experimented with shutter speeds of between 15 and 30 seconds. The shutter speed required for the foreground without filter was 1/100 sec and therefore with Big Stopper was about 15 sec.
Used remote release.
As I was looking towards the setting sun is that why the land is in silhouette with no detail? I would have thought that after balancing the sky and land the foreground would have been better exposed. Maybe these results are what you would expect or is the moral not to try shooting into the sun, setting or not?
Comments would be appreciated
merv



 
how did you come to the conclusion you need 2 stops? 2 stops isn't a lot if you're pointing directly at a setting sun.

If you have an iphone you can download an app called 'ND grad calc'. Set up your shot, turn the camera to aperture priority, set the aperture to what you want to shoot at, turn metering to spot, point at the foreground and the camera will tell you what shutter speed it'll shoot at, then point to the sky and the camera will again tell you the shutter speed it would shoot at to correctly expose, turn the camera to manual and choose the shutter speed of the foreground then enter these two shutter speeds into the app and it'll tell you exactly what ND grad you'll have to use the balance the foreground and sky equally.

By the looks of that picture you needed to grad more.
 
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Have you 'calibrated' your Big Stopper? They can be as much as 11.5 stops - take a picture without the filter in consistent light, then place the filter on and try another exposure at 10 stops slower. Compare the histograms, and if they aren't similar then try another exposure at 10.3 stops slower, and so on, until you get a similar exposure to the first shot.
 
Hi Ross thats exactly what I did using spot metering. The sky showed, from memory 1/250 sec and the sea 1/100 so thought 2 stops would do.
Admittedly if I had placed the spot over the sun it might have been a different story and thats maybe where I've gone wrong.
Thanks for the Ap recommendation will download.
Hi Stu, no I didn't do that,t didnt know about that possibility.
Thanks both for useful comments
 
Have you pulled back the exposure at all in lightroom or is this SOOC? You can fill light in the shadows in the foreground! It's amazing how far you can pull the shadows with lr with d800 or d600! I used to expose to the right on the histogram and pull it back but don't bother anymore on FX
 
Hi Ross just downloaded that Ap. Nice and simple. Have another called ND Filter Calc but yours is nice and basic
 
The sun is over exposed so needed 3 or 4 stops instead of 2 in my opinion
 
merv said:
Hi Ross thats exactly what I did using spot metering. The sky showed, from memory 1/250 sec and the sea 1/100 so thought 2 stops would do.
Admittedly if I had placed the spot over the sun it might have been a different story and thats maybe where I've gone wrong.
Thanks for the Ap recommendation will download.
Hi Stu, no I didn't do that,t didnt know about that possibility.
Thanks both for useful comments
Click to expand...
yer i would have metered the rocks, with them being darker than the sea.

As Mark says, trying pulling the shadows up in PP, I'm not very up to date with Nikons but does that have the same sensor as my A7R? If so you'd be able to pull them right up noise free.

I do';t agree in what Mark says about the sky being over exposed though, the sky looks spot on, its the rocks that are under-exposed.


Oh and Stu'd tip was useful too, my big stopper is way more tinted than 10 stops.
 
oROSSo said:
yer i would have metered the rocks, with them being darker than the sea.

As Mark says, trying pulling the shadows up in PP, I'm not very up to date with Nikons but does that have the same sensor as my A7R? If so you'd be able to pull them right up noise free.

I do';t agree in what Mark says about the sky being over exposed though, the sky looks spot on, its the rocks that are under-exposed.


Oh and Stu'd tip was useful too, my big stopper is way more tinted than 10 stops.
Click to expand...
Ah the sky is perfectly exposed but the actual sun is over as in burnt out!
 
Right guys all very useful thanks. Think we got to the nub of the matter quickly
merv
 
Lol I reverse the sky again in lightroom so the sun is round and not burnt but vignetting can be reversed
 
Mark twiglet said:
Possibly but reverse grading would under expose the ground more.........
Click to expand...
Well your shutter speed would have to increase but look at that first example, its balanced that the blend of the shot wouldn't darken the foreground
 
oROSSo said:
Well your shutter speed would have to increase but look at that first example, its balanced that the blend of the shot wouldn't darken the foreground
Click to expand...

You'd end up with cloud drag in you're shot !!!! Double win
 
To poster........ If you use a large number f stop you'll get a starry looking sun which looks good!
 
Calibrated and yes it seems to be 11 stops the Big Stopper. Hadn't heard of that.
Don't know Ross if the sensors are the same.
Will have a go in Lightroom
thx
 
I just had a look at your shot in Lightroom CC (hope you don't mind) and even with the JPEG you have posted, I got loads back by increasing the exposure by a stop and boosting shadows, tweaking WB etc. I can post the shot if you like?
 
If he shot In raw on the d810 he will be shocked how much detail can be pulled out of the rocks
 
Go ahead Stumeech and post it. I don't mind at all you're trying to help me. Yes I have it in RAW
 
The trouble I have a lot of the time is grading for the sky and then the reflection of the sun in the sea is brighter than the sky! That really annoys me.
 
merv said:
Go ahead Stumeech and post it. I don't mind at all you're trying to help me. Yes I have it in RAW
Click to expand...

I changed the WB manually using the picker, boosted shadows by +30, contrast +20, highlights -50, graded the sky a touch and added the usual S curve, saturation etc.

Finally cropped 2:1. Should give you something to get going with. The JPEG has suffered for the processing, but the RAW will be fine.

_DSC0388_zpsoluaa751-2.jpg
 
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stumeech said:
I changed the WB manually using the picker, boosted shadows by +30, contrast +20, highlights -50, graded the sky a touch and added the usual S curve, saturation etc.

Finally cropped 2:1. Should give you something to get going with. The JPEG has suffered for the processing, but the RAW will be fine.

_DSC0388_zpsoluaa751-2.jpg
Click to expand...


Oh it's the giants causeway lol [emoji1]
 
That's a pretty grim evening. Nothing you can do, just come back next time when there is no stupid grey cloud in that place. Also arguably seascape should look like one with considerable water movement, not as a still lake.... Fix WB (original is rather -blue - green) and pull the shadows. Done.
 
Couldn't email the RAW too big so got it opened in Elements. Do you think there's a blue cast about this photo or is that normal?
I went in and used the eyedropper to remove the cast and got this much more pleasing image which is probably nearer the truth.
Well spotte The Giants Causeway. From here
 
Couldn't email the RAW too big so got it opened in Elements. Do you think there's a blue cast about this photo or is that normal?
I went in and used the eyedropper to remove the cast and got this much more pleasing image which is probably nearer the truth.
Well spotte The Giants Causeway. From here?
 
Do you think the original has a blue cast which needs removed. The one two above is much more realistic
Better get it right in the field next time!!
Mark have you been at the Causeway. You have a local name
merv
 
Using the Big Stopper will always give a blue cast, always a personal choice of how much you want to keep in.
 
stumeech said:
Using the Big Stopper will always give a blue cast, always a personal choice of how much you want to keep in.
Click to expand...

Agreed. To remove the cast when using a big stopper all you need to do is boost the temp of the photo.
 
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