Disingenuous ad listing by stores

[Raymond Lin]

I’ve been looking at lots of used cameras lately online, descriptions such as

“Like New”

Missing items

Missing original box…since when do you buy a new camera missing the original box. Having the original box should be a pre-requisite of the Like New tag.
Missing caps or accessories - PC Flash cap or even the triangle strap connector thing.

Basically missing anything that would have been in the NEW box should remove it from the Like New description. To me, Like New, is not just about the condition of the camera, but like you are buying the whole package. I know the argument is ”its to do with the condition”, not the content….then why not take away every accessories, including battery, body cap even? ”Here, it’s like new, same price as another one that has all the box and accessories.”

Clear wear on the corners

Some are very minor, but very clear in the photos, yet it is listed under “Like New”. You know where i am going with this, if I get a new camera, i don’t expect any wear at all.

Basically, if it’s Like New, it should be just like a new one and would be HARD to distinguish between an actual new one.

MPB I am looking at you.

No box.
No Strap.
No triangle thing where the strap attach to.
Wear at the base, weird residue markings.

That is not like new at all. Am I being too picky??

https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/fujifilm-x-t4/sku-1742565

/Rant over.

 

[Sky]

No, you're not being picky. I agree with you completely.

 

[Lost_Manc]

I can only also comment on the company you bring up as I’ve been tempted to pick up a small walk around camera but didn’t want to pay full in case I didn’t use it.

Like you I have noticed some descriptions that are optimistic at best but the main thing for me was the prices.
The camera I was looking at and incidentally a lens for my ILC were £15 and £10 respectively cheaper on MPB than buying brand new with full warranty and everything with no real effort to find those new prices.

Like @Sky says. Definitely not being picky. Much like the state of the used car market though is this just another case of they are because they can right now.

Edit: just checked that particular camera. £849 on MPB missing case and strap but ‘like new’. £859.99 on Amazon or £899.99 on Wex with everything and a full warranty. To me even the higher Wex price is a no brainier If for whatever reason someone had an aversion to using Amazon.

 

[ancient_mariner]

Like new means that - to me - you can't tell the difference between that and a new camera (or whatever). If the object has any signs of use or bits missing then it doesn't fit the description.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I can only also comment on the company you bring up as I’ve been tempted to pick up a small walk around camera but didn’t want to pay full in case I didn’t use it.

Like you I have noticed some descriptions that are optimistic at best but the main thing for me was the prices.
The camera I was looking at and incidentally a lens for my ILC were £15 and £10 respectively cheaper on MPB than buying brand new with full warranty and everything with no real effort to find those new prices.

Like @Sky says. Definitely not being picky. Much like the state of the used car market though is this just another case of they are because they can right now.

Edit: just checked that particular camera. £849 on MPB missing case and strap but ‘like new’. £859.99 on Amazon or £899.99 on Wex with everything and a full warranty. To me even the higher Wex price is a no brainier If for whatever reason someone had an aversion to using Amazon.

The prices vs other store isn‘t the issue i am having, but just accurate description please MPB, it’s so misleading.

It’s so frustrating!

 

[Lost_Manc]

The prices vs other store isn‘t the issue i am having, but just accurate description please MPB, it’s so misleading.

It’s so frustrating!

Oh I know and agree. Was just commenting on the fact that in the cases I looked at regardless of the poor description they aren’t even enough of a discount to justify overlooking the poor description and missing parts vs just buying new.

I fully agree though. The descriptions don’t meet what I would consider to accurate.

 

[imattersuk]

Stumbled across these people recently, their descriptions seem refreshingly honest. No idea what they are like to deal with but quite impressed with the simplicity of the website and lack of BS "special offers".

www.apertureuk.com

 

[GreenNinja67]

Fully agree.

I bought a "like new" Mavic Pro from MPB with fly more pack and all the batteries had been charged upwards of 35 times.

It really put me off dealing with them, for drones especially.

Customer service was poor in rectifying situation as well. Well, it wasn't rectified. I think they sent me another battery in the end, even that had been charged a number of times.

 

[Topsy]

TBH if the link I followed from your post is for the same camera the descrittion is quite clear as to the missing bits, also if you click on their link to "learn about this condition" it is again clear that thewre may be some minimal cosmetic wear and tear, I wouldn't have an issue with this purchase.

 

[Raymond Lin]

TBH if the link I followed from your post is for the same camera the descrittion is quite clear as to the missing bits, also if you click on their link to "learn about this condition" it is again clear that thewre may be some minimal cosmetic wear and tear, I wouldn't have an issue with this purchase.

View attachment 377445

So they are rewording English, Like New means minimal wear, with scuffs, marks and scratches?

Missing Box.

Missing accessories?

They are changing the meaning of “New”?

It’s not Like New at all, it‘s “Like Clearly USED”.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Edit: just checked that particular camera. £849 on MPB missing case and strap but ‘like new’. £859.99 on Amazon or £899.99 on Wex with everything and a full warranty. To me even the higher Wex price is a no brainier If for whatever reason someone had an aversion to using Amazon.

Wex is certainly more accurate.

USED Fujifilm X-T4 Digital Camera Body - Black | Wex Photo Video

www.wexphotovideo.com

Rated 9-

Box, all accessories and no marks that i can see in photos beyond lens mount (expected) yet it describes it as "exhibits very few marks including light shining to the edges and light wear to the grips".

 

[Topsy]

So they are rewording English, Like New means minimal wear, with scuffs, marks and scratches?

Missing Box.

Missing accessories?

They are changing the meaning of “New”?

It’s not Like New at all, it‘s “Like Clearly USED”.

I don't know about "rewording English" but I do think they have explained in their advert what they consider to be like new and were clear that the accessories were not in the box therefore they were open and honest. The fact that their opinion of "like new" differs from yours is irrelivant since they were clear in their advert. As a purchaser it is our responsibility to read the advert correctly and buy or not accordingly.

 

[Topsy]

Wex is certainly more accurate.

USED Fujifilm X-T4 Digital Camera Body - Black | Wex Photo Video

www.wexphotovideo.com

Rated 9-

Box, all accessories and no marks that i can see in photos beyond lens mount (expected) yet it describes it as "exhibits very few marks including light shining to the edges and light wear to the grips".

Perhaps you'd be better buying from Wex in the future? BTW I'm not trying to be awkward here I just don't see it the way you do.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I don't know about "rewording English" but I do think they have explained in their advert what they consider to be like new and were clear that the accessories were not in the box therefore they were open and honest. The fact that their opinion of "like new" differs from yours is irrelivant since they were clear in their advert. As a purchaser it is our responsibility to read the advert correctly and buy or not accordingly.

It's dishonest, the word NEW, the meaning of the word NEW. We all know what that means.

Their "description"....is changing the meaning of the word New. Whatever they choose, that camera SHOULD NOT and would never be in the top pricing bracket and ranking in their site.

How could you put it in the top tier when it is missing the box, missing accessories, and scuffed and marked with weird prints?

 

[the black fox]

my impression of there hard to use website is it offers very little in the way of real info about the items and its a case of pile it high and sell it cheap .. I dont feel that the people doing the listing/advertising are photographers either probably just uni students working part time .missing parts should be listed but looking around even camera shops are starting to take the MPB route of to little info on listings

 

[Topsy]

It's dishonest, the word NEW, the meaning of the word NEW. We all know what that means.

Their "description"....is changing the meaning of the word New. Whatever they choose, that camera SHOULD NOT and would never be in the top pricing bracket and ranking in their site.

How could you put it in the top tier when it is missing the box, missing accessories and scuffed and marked with weird prints?

I don't agree with your view of dishonest, they were clear on their interpretation, there is a saying about opinions, as the seller they can price however they like. You have every right to send it back and get a refund then you can get one from Wex that will be more to your liking.

 

[welshwizard645]

I am with Raymond... like new should = immaculate. And I would expect everything to be present.

Even if they do list what's present and what's not, fair play to them being transparent on that score as I tend to study the full description, a 'like new' description would lead some unsuspecting people to believe the item they are buying is as good as new, boxed, packaging and unmarked.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I don't agree with your view of dishonest, they were clear on their interpretation, there is a saying about opinions, as the seller they can price however they like. You have every right to send it back and get a refund then you can get one from Wex that will be more to your liking.

I was being kind to use the word dishonest, I wanted to say fraudulent. Where they know it is not Like New, yet use the description of the words Like New.

Giving the click here to see the meaning....is changing the meaning of English, that is dishonest. What if I list a car and says "Like New". In the small prints I put "Like New means the gasket in the engine has blown, there is cigarette burns all over the leather, there is puke in the rear seat floor and rat poo in the boot". You wouldn't do that right?

We know the meaning of the word New, I don't need to link you to the Oxford dictionary for that. That little link they put in, the small prints, dishonest to say the least.

 

[gramps]

I don't know about "rewording English" but I do think they have explained in their advert what they consider to be like new and were clear that the accessories were not in the box therefore they were open and honest. The fact that their opinion of "like new" differs from yours is irrelivant since they were clear in their advert. As a purchaser it is our responsibility to read the advert correctly and buy or not accordingly.

I hold no torch for MPB, I am at issue with them currently, however I think this is right.
The description is explained ... after all if you take the term "Like New" literally (rather than re-wording English) then it would not be a used camera!
There is enough information about the operation of the company to make an informed decision IMO.

 

[gramps]

its a case of pile it high and sell it cheap

Or buy it cheap and sell it high!

 

[Raymond Lin]

I hold no torch for MPB, I am at issue with them currently, however I think this is right.
The description is explained ... after all if you take the term "Like New" literally (rather than re-wording English) then it would not be a used camera!
There is enough information about the operation of the company to make an informed decision IMO.

If we are going down to their link and their description" and be more pedantic about reading everything.

What about this one?

https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/fujifilm-x-t4/sku-1757310

"Item looks close to brand new, i.e. minimal cosmetic wear and tear, clean sensor, buttons, hot-shoe and screen(s) are in near pristine condition. All rubber grips and port covers are present and in superb condition. Any scuffs, marks or scratches are very minor"

All Rubber grips and PORT COVERS are present.

The little cap on the front is missing....

 

[Box Brownie]

Purely my view ...

"Like new" to me should mean indistinguishable from new i.e. not even cosmetic wear (unless declared?)

As for the boxes & accessories~ was there not a thread recently that said that MPB do not consider the box (and some accessories?) as important in regard to the 'condition' of the item.

 

[woof woof]

I don't agree with their playing with words.

This took me back to my days of risk assessments but in my case I tried to keep the wording as real world relatable as possible and to me MPB's wording doesn't look to be wording which most ordinary people would think of as relating to what they'd expect real world wording to be and relate to.

Just my HO. But I think yes, I agree Raymond. I think putting it kindly they're spinning things as positively as possible here.

 

[Petrochemist]

-----------------------------------------------------

TBH if the link I followed from your post is for the same camera the descrittion is quite clear as to the missing bits, also if you click on their link to "learn about this condition" it is again clear that thewre may be some minimal cosmetic wear and tear, I wouldn't have an issue with this purchase.

View attachment 377445

If it was a 1-5 type rating then descriptions like this are fair, but 'like new' should not include marks. Changing the title to 'nearly new' is more in keeping with the english language.

Like new is a description I don't think I'd ever use for a used item, but it might be fair for a display item (provided it's not faded or been handled).

It feels like redefining 'working' as 'can be tricked into functioning sometimes once you learn its quirks'. This sort of positive spin is misleading & IMO dishonest.

 

[gramps]

All Rubber grips and PORT COVERS are present.

The little cap on the front is missing....

Then it is clearly mis-described.

As for the boxes & accessories~ was there not a thread recently that said that MPB do not consider the (and some accessories?) as important in regard to the 'condition' of the item.

Correct ... and if you send something in and decline the quote adjustment don't expect them to consider the accessories that remain your property to be "important" enough to keep securely and return to you!

 

[Raymond Lin]

Then it is clearly mis-described.

Correct ... and if you send something in and decline the quote adjustment don't expect them to consider the accessories that remain your property to be "important" enough to keep securely and return to you!

Honestly, after this morning I have no plans to do any business with them. Dishonest, Mis-described, careless, whatever. It seems there is no guarantee that you will get what you pay for.

 

[Topsy]

Giving the click here to see the meaning....is changing the meaning of English, that is dishonest. What if I list a car and says "Like New". In the small prints I put "Like New means the gasket in the engine has blown, there is cigarette burns all over the leather, there is puke in the rear seat floor and rat poo in the boot". You wouldn't do that right?

Sorry Raymond but this is a ridiculous analogy.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Sorry Raymond but this is a ridiculous analogy.

But I would be totally honest with you by declaring everything in the small print...in line of what you are describing. You would get a car as described, like new but everything else in the small print.

It can be Like New, but damaged.

Isn't it?

Of course not. We know the meaning of what Like New means. We don't need or want a company changing that meaning, that is dishonest.

 

[viewfromthenorth]

I bought a ‘like new’ battery grip from MPB recently, when it arrived, I found that it had damage at the entrance to the battey compartment. To be fair they replaced it with another one that was undamaged but it was disappointing.

 

[mav]

any idea what. Graded Faulty cosmetic condition by our team of experts. means seen a lens on mpb with this description , but nothing to say what it actually means

 

[imattersuk]

Wex have a lens listed as 9+ with the following description

Тhіѕ lеnѕ іѕ mіnt аnd frее оf mаrkѕ wіth thе ехсерtіоn оf раіnt lоѕѕ tо thе bаrrеl, dеnt tо thе frоnt hооd аdарtоr, wеаr tо thе grірѕ wіth раіnt lоѕѕ , duѕt thrоughоut thе орtісѕ.

 

[tijuana taxi]

I bought a like new lens that came without the lens hood it was supplied with when new.
Complained and got a 50 quid discount then luckily found one on eBay for £23.

Worked out well that time, but like new should mean exactly that

 

[Raymond Lin]

Wex have a lens listed as 9+ with the following description

Тhіѕ lеnѕ іѕ mіnt аnd frее оf mаrkѕ wіth thе ехсерtіоn оf раіnt lоѕѕ tо thе bаrrеl, dеnt tо thе frоnt hооd аdарtоr, wеаr tо thе grірѕ wіth раіnt lоѕѕ , duѕt thrоughоut thе орtісѕ.

My X100 from LCE this week had 4/5 stars, Which means "signs of use"

The only signs of used I can see is that the box has been opened and the leather case has signs of used but the camera itself, 100% unmarked, even the back of the screen, no wear on any thing. The camera itself is "Like New". If this was MPB or Wex no doubt they would it on their highest tier.

I think that is honest, it sets the expectation slightly lower from the start.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I was shopping around for a second hand camera recently and fully agree with you, I was getting very frustrated as I'd see what looks like a good price for a camera through a price aggregator but when going to the site find the assessed condition is nonsense so going to the site was a waste of time. I saw one that was rated 'like new' and quickly noticed the rear screen was smashed, sure enough when I looked closer at the description it mentioned the damaged screen but the camera was 'like new' otherwise but to me it should never be badged as 'like new' no matter what it said in the description. Another camera was sold as 'excellent' but looked heavily worn from the photos and there was a large piece of exposed metal like the camera had been up against a belt sander which along with the high shutter count meant I didn't think it was anywhere near excellent.

I've bought items from companies rated as like new/as new and they were like new, they were boxed with all the accessories and looked untouched but not actually brand new so possibly less warranty/comeback which I think is exactly what any item described as like new/as new should be.

It put me off using some of these companies entirely as I think they're being misleading with the grading and you shouldn't have to check through the description and pictures carefully because they've inaccurately graded it.

 

[gramps]

It's a bit of a minefield with descriptions really, I recently bought a camera described as 'Excellent' and when it arrived I would have described it as 'Like New' ... unmarked and with the original accessories all in good clean condition, even the wire ties and manual etc etc.

 

[andybod]

I’ve just bought some used gear from Wilkinsons cameras, there items are rated roughly as below
A= mint
B= excellent
C= very good

I bought a camera listed as c+ but the photos were generic photo’s not the camera itself and the description wasn’t the best, I was a little nervous about the lack of information after I’d ordered the items (yes I’d had a few beers when I hit the buy button).
having looked round the camera I’m more than happy. It’s boxed with all its original packaging, manuals straps etc all present, looking round the camera condition is very good I can’t see any wear on the grips, top plate or rear of the camera, there is slight scuffing on one corner of the base plate I would say it’s 8.5/10.
A lens was listed as b+ again all boxed and I can’t see a mark on the lens just a tiny mark on the lens hood.
all used items come with a 12 month warranty I would say there grading is spot on and will have no hesitation using them again.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

TBH if the link I followed from your post is for the same camera the descrittion is quite clear as to the missing bits, also if you click on their link to "learn about this condition" it is again clear that thewre may be some minimal cosmetic wear and tear, I wouldn't have an issue with this purchase.

View attachment 377445

The thing is, I sold them my Sony A9 and listed it as like new.
It was mint everywhere and had the box and everything that came with it new.
They marked it down from like new to excellent because they found slight marks on the baseplate. I had an L-bracket on the camera since new so the marks must've been so slight that I didn't notice when I checked the camera.

 

[Pound Coin]

Clearly the need a category:

”Better than New”

 

[Topsy]

The thing is, I sold them my Sony A9 and listed it as like new.
It was mint everywhere and had the box and everything that came with it new.
They marked it down from like new to excellent because they found slight marks on the baseplate. I had an L-bracket on the camera since new so the marks must've been so slight that I didn't notice when I checked the camera.

Out of curiosity did you check how they listed it to sell?

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Out of curiosity did you check how they listed it to sell?

I didn't.
Not sure how I'd identify which one was mine's tbh....