Disorganised wedding caught me out!

jcoutts

jcoutts

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Name
Justin
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B&G had arranged a quick wedding since their Cyprus wedding had been cancelled due to a family fude! Anyway, I was asked if i'd do the togging to which I reluctantly agreed.... :cuckoo:

When i spoke to Bride originally (prior meeting) times were sketchy, didn't seem that organised or planned - God I was right:bang:

I was told at about 7:30p.m on the day Cake cutting at about 8:00. then first dance..

There I am all positioned in another area where the cake is displayed, lit O.K. but still low light got my settings ready with a test shot for 7:50p.m standing around waiting then I here the DJ announce - Welcome Mr & Mrs.. blah, blah for their first dance!!:gag:

So I grab the camera run to the other end of the Manor house, to find there on the floor dancing away Cameras not set up properly..

Grabbed these shots with my Sigma 17-70 F2.8 on a Canon 50D in Mode AV at ISO 3200, Flash Exp Comp +3, getting shutter speeds of only about 1/25..1/40 HANDHELD :runaway:

Needless to say they aren't great, and very noisy. What he needed was my prime 1.8 and probably manual mode???? the full size ones look even worse!

Was wondering if I can rescue these to any sort of fashion, these are the only ones i managed to get that are not blurred due to the too low shutter speed. Had a little go with Noise Ninja on the full size (Not these) doesn't appear to be doing much. These ones have had no PP at all.

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:help:
 
For colour, in order:

Possibly, but unlikely
No
Probably
Yes

The last one will be easy to do in Lightroom 3. You need to sort the white balance, put the exposure up, the clarity up a bit and then look at finding the right balance between sharpness and noise reduction.

Then print it bloody small ;)
 
thats wedding photography for you. You should be able to change all the settings to what you need while running around without even looking at the camera, it comes with practice and experience though. They are OKish
 
I always, alway work with the venue staff, they will let you know in advance what they are doing and when and it avoids these little problems. I don't ever go away from where the B&G are for that very reason. If I nip out to download pics or go to the loo it's while they have just had their main course put on the table, then I know I have a few moments but other than that I'm there, might be in the background but if you don't leave, you won't miss anything! ;)
 
For colour, in order:

Possibly, but unlikely
No
Probably
Yes

Then print it bloody small ;)
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Thanks Rev :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thats wedding photography for you. You should be able to change all the settings to what you need while running around without even looking at the camera, it comes with practice and experience though
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- Agreed :clap:
 
Noiseware pro is much better IMHO. As Monty Python said expect the un-expected, in my experience weddings don't very often follow the timings. Part of the togs job is "coaxing" things along
 
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in my experience weddings don't very often follow the timings
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Timings is one thing, but I would have expected the bride to know when things are happening. Especially when I have a conversation about the said timing or order of things not 30 mins prior! :thinking:
 
dont expect anything. Also those settings are ridiculous, were you using a speedlight? what about your second camera body? you should always have one set up ready for the first dance if its imminant, as this often happens and catches you off guard.
 
Justin, if you want a batch running through Noiseware Pro just PM me. These things are sent to try us :)
 
You could send them to me and ill have a go at fixing them up if your not confident

and your shutter speeds were
1/10 :thumbsdown:
1/8 :thumbsdown:
1/6 :thumbsdown:
1/6 :thumbsdown:

Dave:thumbs:
 
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they would have looked more interesting with a much lower exposure and letting the lights play on them a bit, then popping in a little flash. BUT you hadn't planned it to be then and set the frame up. I like to either set up a light or set the shot up talking to the dj maybe running those lights for a test frame

Based on the running from the house you did good, if it was a long dance a chimp and different look to the shot are always good :thumb:
 
I spose it's too late to say what you should have done ;)

But I will say that I think the last shot is a nice capture and if you throw enough PP at it you'll probably be okay, and the couple will love it.

I went to a post wedding party the other day and the pics (done by a friend) were being shown proudly. I thought they were absolutely terrible but they were a record of a very happy day and the faults were completely invisible to all concerned :shrug:
 
HoppyUK said:
I spose it's too late to say what you should have done ;)

But I will say that I think the last shot is a nice capture and if you throw enough PP at it you'll probably be okay, and the couple will love it.

I went to a post wedding party the other day and the pics (done by a friend) were being shown proudly. I thought they were absolutely terrible but they were a record of a very happy day and the faults were completely invisible to all concerned :shrug:
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Always relied on that in the past! :eek::D:lol::lol::p
 
I spose it's too late to say what you should have done
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Yes - Sadly :(

I thought they were absolutely terrible but they were a record of a very happy day and the faults were completely invisible to all concerned
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This is true, often B&G aren't looking at them as critically as we do, and they probably won't be too bothered as long as they have a niceish picture to look at.

BUT, most of us take pride in our work and those shots aren't something I'm proud of. I know if i'd had just that little bit longer to prepare I could have done a lot better job. I definitely would have put on my prime, and definitely would have used Manual mode.

Using settings like that were you lighting the shot with a candle?
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Might as well have been - Had I not been thrown into it I would have asked for some more lights on for that moment. It was basically pitch black with only the disco lighting on. Those settings are were needed to push the shutter speed up and it still wasn't enough!!! FYI I was using a Nissin di622.

A bit late now, but if anyone wants to suggest what settings they'd have used - I'M ALL EARS... :clap: but you really had to be there to see how bad it was and there was no time to start asking for more light. It was a case of making the best of a bad situation. :bang:
 
Choosing settings when using flash is a balance between the flash and the ambient light.
You've chosen to favour the ambient with such a high ISO and a low shutter speed.
I wouldn't have, as there isn't much interesting detail in the background, especially in the 1st and 2nd shots.
Experiment with manual mode.
Experiment with locking the shutter speed in the 1/60 - 1/250 range or lock to 1/250 if you want more repeatable exposures. It's in the menu.

Damn, 1/6 of a second is slooooowwww! :D
 
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Since you ask, there comes a time when the ambient light is just too low, and I would suggest 1/6sec at IOS3200 is too low. By all means pack a fast prime and give it a go, but only after you've nailed the shot with flash. Your flash appears to be doing very little, even at +3 stops - were you bouncing it with a Stofen or something? Not much hope in a big, high ballroom.

And fast primes are not easy to use, with very shallow depth of field (forget trying to get both people sharp at the same time) so shoot plenty because your hit rate will be low.

I think all social events photographers should be issued with a Lumiquest Quik Bounce on the NHS. This one - £40 http://www.lumiquest.com/products/quik-bounce.htm It does everything - controllable bounce-fill, and softened direct flash (without wastage out of the back, eg Fong) when you haven't got a suitable bounce surface. Does horizontal/vertical, and it packs flat :thumbs: There is nothing else that is both so versatile, effective, and easy.

So I would have used that, and slowed the shutter speed as much as I dared (maybe 1/30sec) to pull in a bit of ambient - the disco lights should burn through a bit to give some atmosphere.

Then it might be nice to get a bit creative with the flash and really slow the shutter speed to around 1/2sec-ish and get them dancing. Blurry swirls with a sharp flash image :) might be nice. Again, shoot lots of frames as every one will be completely different. And none of the second-curtain sync nonsense, it only makes things harder when the movement is random and unpredictable.

And E-TTL is your (very best) friend.

PS Sort your white balance ;)
 
Guerillaphoto said:
This is a very good example of someone taking the job of a wedding photographer and not knowing what they are getting into.
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It's also a good example of someone having the balls to come here and tell us what went wrong so others can learn from his mistakes...:thumbs:

Thanks to the OP for sharing this.
 
Guerillaphoto said:
This is a very good example of someone taking the job of a wedding photographer and not knowing what they are getting into.
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Harsh but fair. But in the OP's defense, he was a reluctant victim.

Rather worse IMHO are a couple of threads in the Lighting section now, where there are posters accepting professional paid commissions that clearly have absolutely no clue what they are doing. Zero.

Even worse, they seem to think that getting some decent kit and then asking a question on here will elicit a one-line answer that will solve all their problems :shake: Using flash certain sorts the men from the boys ;)
 
HoppyUK said:
Harsh but fair. But in the OP's defense, he was a reluctant victim.

Rather worse IMHO are a couple of threads in the Lighting section now, where there are posters accepting professional paid commissions that clearly have absolutely no clue what they are doing. Zero.

Even worse, they seem to think that getting some decent kit and then asking a question on here will elicit a one-line answer that will solve all their problems :shake: Using flash certain sorts the men from the boys ;)
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Rubbish - a good-quality filter will sort all that for you...:thumbs:
 
Arkady said:
Rubbish - a good-quality filter will sort all that for you...:thumbs:
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Hi Rob! I never though of that!

Tell that to the lady who used 1/320sec with flash and then tried to clean the black line off the sensor. Classic! :eek:
 
Arkady said:
It's also a good example of someone having the balls to come here and tell us what went wrong so others can learn from his mistakes...:thumbs:

Thanks to the OP for sharing this.
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Thanks Arkady and Hoppy for seeing it from this POV. It is a shame about the negative comments, but hey it's an open forum and people are very well entitled to their opinions.

Though what I will say is I happen to have just passed my City & Guilds Lvl 1 with Distinction :thumbs: Does that make me a wedding photographer? - Well No definitely not, and that is evident, but I'm not really a beginner either and I have shot weddings before and the B&G were very pleased.

The point is as with a lot of things, including Wedding photography I see it rather like your driving test. Once you have a driving licence well you may well be able to drive - Does that make you a good or competent driver? No.

It's only once you start getting behind that wheel that you gain the experience and knowledge to make you a good, safe & competent driver. Well, that's the idea there are still exceptions I know.

Wedding photography is no different in my eyes - Unless you have the guts to try it give it your best shot - Your never gonna learn. Providing of course you have SOME idea and don't totally ruin the day (Or do it as a second shooter). I don't think I will have ruined their day with a couple of dodgy low light shots. There are plenty of decent shots to overshadow these.

BUT, we MUST learn from it - and that is why I'm here.

As I said before, if anyone wants to make some constructive criticism I'M ALL EARS.


Thanks again HoppyUK and Arkady

P.S Yes, I did bounce it with the dedicated stofen type filter for that Nissin di622. I even put in newish batteries about 1hr earlier. Perhaps I was just expecting too much out of the Camera and the conditions. :shrug: Or should I have just removed the filter and really cranked it up!
 
jcoutts said:
Thanks Arkady and Hoppy for seeing it from this POV. It is a shame about the negative comments, but hey it's an open forum and people are very well entitled to their opinions.

Though what I will say is I happen to have just passed my City & Guilds Lvl 1 with Distinction :thumbs: Does that make me a wedding photographer? - Well No definitely not, and that is evident, but I'm not really a beginner either and I have shot weddings before and the B&G were very pleased.

The point is as with a lot of things, including Wedding photography I see it rather like your driving test. Once you have a driving licence well you may well be able to drive - Does that make you a good or competent driver? No.

It's only once you start getting behind that wheel that you gain the experience and knowledge to make you a good, safe & competent driver. Well, that's the idea there are still exceptions I know.

Wedding photography is no different in my eyes - Unless you have the guts to try it give it your best shot - Your never gonna learn. Providing of course you have SOME idea and don't totally ruin the day (Or do it as a second shooter). I don't think I will have ruined their day with a couple of dodgy low light shots. There are plenty of decent shots to overshadow these.

BUT, we MUST learn from it - and that is why I'm here.

As I said before, if anyone wants to make some constructive criticism I'M ALL EARS.


Thanks again HoppyUK and Arkady

P.S Yes, I did bounce it with the dedicated stofen type filter for that Nissin di622. I even put in newish batteries about 1hr earlier. Perhaps I was just expecting too much out of the Camera and the conditions. :shrug: Or should I have just removed the filter and really cranked it up!
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Kudos to you fella for this post :thumbs:

Most wedding photography is much less about the actual picture taking and technical supremacy than it is about logistics and time management. And keeping calm in the heat of the moment. We all make mistakes (well, all except Rob, but then he's got his magic filter :D ).

I did a small shoot recently which was all out of focus! I'd switched to manual focus for a tripod shot and just forgot to switch it back :eek: Luckily the focus wasn't far off (which is why I perhaps didn't notice it) and by sheer fluke some of the shots were in fact sharp. I just got carried away with having four attractive ladies perched on a spiral staircase and forgot what I was doing :lol:

If you're going to do weddings, you really need to nail that flash technique. I know ambient and atmosphere and all that is fashionable - which is fine, go for it - but flash will always bag the shot. And, IMHO, when you use off-camera flash properly maybe with two or three remote guns, you will get better images with an extra dimension than you'll ever get with ambient. The thing is with ambient you have to work with what you've got, but with flash you can literally do anything you like with a bit of imagination and if you work at it. And, FWIW, this is an area where a professional can excel and rise above the standard that any amateur can manage.

Get that Lumiquest jobbie and have a go with it. Use it close and notice how much softer the shadows are (use the wide panel to really fill the reflector). Use it outdoors for daylight fill-in. Learn about high speed sync. use it for bounce fill and notice how you can alter the bounce-fill ratio by both closing one of the flaps and also by opening them both and zooming the flash head to max. You can alter the ratio by more than two stops that way, which might, just might, have given you a chance to bounce something off that high ceiling. Or maybe not, I don't know how high it was and that's a tall order (haha!) but you get the idea.

Log onto strobist.com http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/ and check out the lighting section here. Get two great books - Joe McNally's Hot Shoe Diaries for a heavy dose of inspiration and entertainment http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hot-Shoe-Di...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283346918&sr=1-1 and this excellent new book on Canon EOS Flash. It's very readable and great technical learning on making the most of E-TTL remote flash http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mastering-C...1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1283347018&sr=1-3-fkmr0 :thumbs:
 
Not a wedding tog so maybe this is a no no, but wouldn`t one option to have been to explain what had happened to the B&G and ask them to give you a few mins to set up and then do the first dance again??

They want the photos presumably, hardly going to ruin their evening I wouldn`t have thought.

They can only say No.
 
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