Do I really want to move to LF?

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Jonathan
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Ok, so what I need is rational and sound advice, as I have it in my head that selling my RB67, F5, film stock and V600 scanner is a great idea in favour of getting a large format setup.

Now. I love my RB67, and I enjoy using the F5 (although I really don't use it enough to have any form of attachment with it). The RB gets fantastic results, and offers fantastic image quality, portability and blah blah blah. The F5 is mint, and worth a fair bit; money that could be invested elsewhere...

So, has anyone made the jump from MF to LF? Has anyone made the jump and regretted it? Am I being silly in thinking that after I've bought a V700 / similar LF capable scanner, I'll have enough money left to get a LF camera that wont fall apart? Am I being silly in general?!

If I am honest, I don't think I'm good enough yet to make the RB67 really show what it's got, and indeed, I will probably spend a lot in the long run on slide frames that are buggered!

So then good people of TP, please extend to me your honest opinions and experiences! :)
 
Well if it's a hobby and there is no impulse decision and you have read the pros and cons and it is what you want to do...then go for it. As you will be buying/selling S/H I'm sure there would be no financial loss going forward or back.
For me I've never ever wanted to go LF, so can't help out with experience.
 
My LF is few and far. Expensive! I love it but I feel MF is better for me. I'd never give up my LF. There's just so much of a 5x4 that's exacting, though. Very exacting.
I'm probably gonna stick with MF for more than I am with LF, TBH.
That said, a LF neg or slide is amazing.
It's up to you. Is it for p*ss*ng higher up the wall or for a real benefit to you as a photographer? It was the former for me but I got enmeshed lol. As a get-out, I have a 6x9 back for my LF but even that's poorly usable as opposed to a genuine 6x6/7/9/12.
 
It's like a completely different hobby. Most medium format functions essentially the same as the smaller formats, but is just bigger. The convenience of roll film, the comparatively high levels of portability and ease of set up can't be underestimated.

When I'm out and about casual shooting with my LF I have 8 shots, maybe 10 for the whole day. I'm also carrying more weight than your RB67 which is more cumbersome.

Having said all that I still love it, but i would seriously recommend you try one out first to see if it suits
 
I agree with all what has been said above! :D

Its a learning curve but it forces you to slow down so much that your images have to improve, it is also very exciting. If I was still in Newbury you could have had a go with mine but there are a few photographers that offer taster days.
 
Yes, it will slow you down and make you think even harder about composition and framing. Get a roll film back and you will have the best of both words.

Shooting wide open also gives you a look only sheet film can do and the movements are something you can't live without very quickly.
Also if you can, have a look at a 30"x20" drum scanned c-type print ;)

Only problem is you will soon be wanting a 10x8 and a bad back to go with it.
 
You haven't said why you want LF Woodsy. I want it too, but more for the movements than the negative size. Personally if I could afford it I'd go with Ed's recommendation of a LF camera with a 120 roll film back. That way I don't need a new scanner, enlarger or developing gear.
 
I have both LF and MF cameras. If I only had a LF camera, I'd be shooting it a lot more than I do now but I also wouldn't be out taking as many pictures, as often and with as varied a subject matter as I do now.
 
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Well if it's a hobby and there is no impulse decision and you have read the pros and cons and it is what you want to do...then go for it. As you will be buying/selling S/H I'm sure there would be no financial loss going forward or back.
For me I've never ever wanted to go LF, so can't help out with experience.

My LF is few and far. Expensive! I love it but I feel MF is better for me. I'd never give up my LF. There's just so much of a 5x4 that's exacting, though. Very exacting.
I'm probably gonna stick with MF for more than I am with LF, TBH.
That said, a LF neg or slide is amazing.
It's up to you. Is it for p*ss*ng higher up the wall or for a real benefit to you as a photographer? It was the former for me but I got enmeshed lol. As a get-out, I have a 6x9 back for my LF but even that's poorly usable as opposed to a genuine 6x6/7/9/12.

It is indeed only a hobby, but one I take fairly seriously tbh. It's my only real escape from everything else. It's by no means for leaving my scent higher on a wall, no. Exacting and technical stuff is not a problem tbh... It's something I feel I could learn relatively quickly.

It's like a completely different hobby. Most medium format functions essentially the same as the smaller formats, but is just bigger. The convenience of roll film, the comparatively high levels of portability and ease of set up can't be underestimated.

When I'm out and about casual shooting with my LF I have 8 shots, maybe 10 for the whole day. I'm also carrying more weight than your RB67 which is more cumbersome.

Having said all that I still love it, but i would seriously recommend you try one out first to see if it suits

I agree with all what has been said above! :D

Its a learning curve but it forces you to slow down so much that your images have to improve, it is also very exciting. If I was still in Newbury you could have had a go with mine but there are a few photographers that offer taster days.

Yes, it will slow you down and make you think even harder about composition and framing. Get a roll film back and you will have the best of both words.

Shooting wide open also gives you a look only sheet film can do and the movements are something you can't live without very quickly.
Also if you can, have a look at a 30"x20" drum scanned c-type print ;)

Only problem is you will soon be wanting a 10x8 and a bad back to go with it.

This is exactly it chaps. I do indeed need to try it first. 10x8 costs silly money, so I highly doubt I'll get into that. The level of detail in 5x4 is easily enough for me.

You haven't said why you want LF Woodsy. I want it too, but more for the movements than the negative size. Personally if I could afford it I'd go with Ed's recommendation of a LF camera with a 120 roll film back. That way I don't need a new scanner, enlarger or developing gear.

The movements, the neg size, the time it takes, the almost forced improvement of results, and i know this sounds strange, but I want it such that I only use it for photos that I know will be worth taking. Even with MF I still find myself taking "more than a few" photos. Equally I suppose therein lies the disadvantage of having a fairly large film stock.

I use digital for everything. Landscapes, street etc. The LF would be for landscapes only, where I'd have the time to set it up. My reservation in going ahead with it currently is my lack of confidence I suppose in composing shots. MF currently is great because it's cost effective enough to make mistakes whilst providing good enough quality over digital to really get keep shots, if you catch my drift? So basically I'm stuck in a loop of wanting to improve and not feeling good enough to warrant making the move. *frustration*

I have both LF and MF cameras. If I only had a LF camera, I'd be shooting it a lot more than I do now but I also wouldn't be out taking as many pictures, as often and with as varied a subject matter as I do now.

See this is it... do you shoot digital as well? Because I do, and I find that I'm not held back in what I shoot because of it. Should I rely on film only, you're absolutely right, LF would not be the way to go; at least not currently anyway.

I think the bottom line, as already said, is that I need to have a go at it first before making a decision. The thing is, will moving away from MF be a bad move? I don't see the point in having digital, MF and LF all at the same time, so do I stick with MF? :thinking:
 
...
See this is it... do you shoot digital as well? Because I do, and I find that I'm not held back in what I shoot because of it.

Well, that's new information ;) Yeah, I shoot digital too but not as often. When I'm shooting for fun, it is the older mechanical cameras and metering my own scene that is the lure for me and of course these cameras take film. When I don't want to do that, I dig out the digital.

Should I rely on film only, you're absolutely right, LF would not be the way to go; at least not currently anyway.

I think the bottom line, as already said, is that I need to have a go at it first before making a decision. The thing is, will moving away from MF be a bad move? I don't see the point in having digital, MF and LF all at the same time, so do I stick with MF? :thinking:
In that case, yeah, sure, you could switch over to LF no problem. And if sometime in the future you just miss the MF that much you could always get it again.
 
5 x 4 is great but a real pain to use. I will tend to work out the exact shot I need on digital or MF and then when I know exactly what I want go back with the 5 x 4. If I just had the 5 x 4 I think I would definitely be less creative because I wouldn’t have the time to constantly move and reset the camera just to evaluate the composition.

Also if you are scanning rather than wet printing the 5 x 4 neg is almost too large, most of the scanners I have access to won’t scan 5 x 4 at maximum resolution.

I think you need MF and LF in your tool kit.
 
I use digital for everything. Landscapes, street etc. The LF would be for landscapes only, where I'd have the time to set it up. My reservation in going ahead with it currently is my lack of confidence I suppose in composing shots. MF currently is great because it's cost effective enough to make mistakes whilst providing good enough quality over digital to really get keep shots, if you catch my drift?

And therein lies the nub of the problem. I have some time away on my own each year where I can take as much photo gear as I want without anyone asking why I could possibly need all the gear. This would include LF, a choice of MF, maybe some 35mm slide, a DSLR and a digi compact. You stop at an attractive scene and then you decide how good it is and how big you are likely to want the end result. Believe me, it has to be good before you shoot LF tranny at about £6 each inc processing, and you sure ain't going to take 2 if you can avoid it.

Cutting a long story short, you end up going the cheaper route which is the DSLR or maybe the MF, and the LF tends not to get used. I think if you're going to get into LF, then you've got to leave the other kit at home, and if you don't see anything worth shooting on any given day you'll just have to accept that and shoot nothing. You can get a start in LF quite cheaply by buying the kit that some others don't want, which will mainly be rail cameras rather than folders, and try a cheap b&w film such as Shanghai which can be developed cheaply at home. Reasonably priced gear comes up regularly on the auction site, so just bide your time and one will come along. The good thing is that this kit will probably hold its value if you find it isn't for you.
 
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5 x 4 is great but a real pain to use. I will tend to work out the exact shot I need on digital or MF and then when I know exactly what I want go back with the 5 x 4. If I just had the 5 x 4 I think I would definitely be less creative because I wouldn’t have the time to constantly move and reset the camera just to evaluate the composition.

Also if you are scanning rather than wet printing the 5 x 4 neg is almost too large, most of the scanners I have access to won’t scan 5 x 4 at maximum resolution.

I think you need MF and LF in your tool kit.

The problem is, I can only afford one or the other. If I sell my current kit, I need to be sure I'm making the right choice. With LF, I think I have it in me to not take the shot if it's not exactly what I want, if you know what I mean?

I don't know. At the moment it kinda feels like I'm trying to justify it to myself. I really need to give it a try before deciding to buy or sell anything... but I just cant help feel the pull of the idea.
 
And therein lies the nub of the problem. I have some time away on my own each year where I can take as much photo gear as I want without anyone asking why I could possibly need all the gear. This would include LF, a choice of MF, maybe some 35mm slide, a DSLR and a digi compact. You stop at an attractive scene and then you decide how good it is and how big you are likely to want the end result. Believe me, it has to be good before you shoot LF tranny at about £6 each inc processing, and you sure ain't going to take 2 if you can avoid it.

Cutting a long story short, you end up going the cheaper route which is the DSLR or maybe the MF, and the LF tends not to get used. I think if you're going to get into LF, then you've got to leave the other kit at home, and if you don't see anything worth shooting on any given day you'll just have to accept that and shoot nothing. You can get a start in LF quite cheaply by buying the kit that some others don't want, which will mainly be rail cameras rather than folders, and try a cheap b&w film such as Shanghai which can be developed cheaply at home. Reasonably priced gear comes up regularly on the auction site, so just bide your time and one will come along. The good thing is that this kit will probably hold its value if you find it isn't for you.

Ideally, I dont want to leave my digital kit at home, but I certainly see your point. One thing I've found so far is that I find myself trying to use a bit of everything when im out. This I tend to find frustrating, but equally, I tend to get at least something on each respective format that I'm happy with. In time, I'm happy to ditch 35mm film. I see no real advantage for it other than my current choice of lenses. MF does everything 35mm does but better, and I tend to use it when I'm happy with a scene only. I get parallel shots on digital as well, because even if the shot is roughly the same, both look somehow different from each other.

I guess in the end, and with that last sentence in mind, it boils down to should I get shot of 35mm, and replace MF with LF. I apprecaite it takes longer and costs more per frame, but at least at the moment in my relative inexperience with the format, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. I think...
 
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Can't offer any advice because I've only assisted, but if I was to go LF personally, I'd be looking at 10x8 minimum with the thought that contact printing 10x8 would see me through the next decade or so of wondering what to do with my spare dosh..:cool:
 
Heh, don't get me wrong, had I the money, 10x8 would be amazing. However as I really do not have much money at the moment, nor will I in the near-ish future, 5x4 is really the largest I can realistically consider.
 
Before you make any choices, spend some time having a look round the UK LF website at the link below and you'll get a good overview of the topic and likely costs. Hell, they'll even let you see the classifieds and buy & sell stuff without getting you to jump hurdles! :LOL:

http://www.lf-photo.org.uk/forum/index.php
 
Worth having a look here as well
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/ a bit more active and the monthly portrait thread is a really good read.

I shoot around 50gb of pics a week and always look forward to picking up the 5x4, it teaches you another way of seeing things, you'll see why when you first look onto the ground glass ;)
 
So you successfully shoot LF and digital? Interesting, as that is essentially what I am considering. I shoot no where near that amount of digital, nor that amount in general!

Many thanks for the link :)
 
Yes, commercially digital but when works done i'm straight out with the 5x4.
Really nice to slow down and think about things a bit more. You soon get used to using the ground glass screen and shooting 5x4 you really think about composition in a different way.

I've only had my 5x4 since last summer and I'm looking at the world in a totally different way

Have a look here http://www.edwardmoss.co.uk/news/entry/colouring_in_a_brownfield/ all done on 5x4 Ektar
 
Would an intermediate step to 5x4 be using your existing RB lenses and backs to do something like this?
 
Now. I love my RB67, and I enjoy using the F5 (although I really don't use it enough to have any form of attachment with it). The RB gets fantastic results, and offers fantastic image quality, portability and blah blah blah. The F5 is mint, and worth a fair bit; money that could be invested elsewhere...

If you still love using your RB then I think you will regret selling it. If I was in your situation I'd be tempted to sell the F5 and save enough to be able to run both systems side by side, at least for a while.
 
That would be the ideal way to do it, yeah. The problem is that I have no income, and I'm doing this MSc on the money that I have saved and borrowed.

It's really a case of one or the other until I have some form of steady income which may not be for a fair while :/

You're right though mate, I think I will regret selling the RB, and I suppose that should be my first concern. Even if I sold the F5 and V600, I wouldnt have enough to get a LF system, even if it meant living without a scanner for a while. Looking on ebay, there are some Sinar rail cameras giong for around £400, but of course, this is without a lens, film, film holders etc. A 90mm lens is looking like another £200-400 on top of the camera :/ so unless I can find these considerably cheaper, I simply cant run both :(

Alastair, haha, that looks pretty cool and pretty strange at the same time! Something to look into, but I think I'd prefer to fully commit or not, if you catch my drift? Thanks for the link though :D
 
Given your current economic situation Woodsy I'd say get a LF camera. Just not now.


They'll still be all over ebay when you've finished your MSc and hopefully you'll be in a position to add it to the cameras you have rather than trade it for them.
 
Many thanks everyone for the replies, I very much appreciate all your input.

A bit radical I know, but I have had a slight change of heart, prompted by seeing Tuco's work HERE.

If I was getting B&W work as good as that on my RB67, I'd be very tempted indeed to go LF. However, I'm clearly not making it sing like it can, so perhaps it would probably be best to sell the F5 and spend the money on lenses for the RB67 and get better on that first.

Does this sound like a wholly more sensible option to you good people?
 
Hi Jonathan
I'd be tempted to explore the pricing of your F5, but be aware that it'll have to be good to get a decent price, so go in with your eyes open. I've had a look at yo_Tuco's work at the link and would agree that he seems to have a good grasp of mono film shots and how to get a fine result. Having also looked at his LF shots, there are only a couple that really benefit from the use of camera movements, so the main improvement would be in the overall detail from a larger negative.

I'm bound to say that it is easy to get sucked into the fantastic detail in sheet film photography, but you then need to really examine your potential use of movements or extremely limited dof on portraits or still life photography. I've just ordered a couple of boxes of 5x4 FP4+ today because it is a cheap deal at £24.95 a box, so effectively £1 a sheet, but that's going into the fridge as it should be about 2014 expiry and it'll cost an awful lot more by the time 2014 arrives (currently £44/box on Harman/Ilford website).

The bottom line is a decision on what will take your photography forward more: a chance to experiment in 120 or the discipline of single sheet photography. Only you can answer that one, but if cost is an issue then I'd be putting LF on the backburner as a maybe/someday thing to look forward to. G'night!
 
If I was getting B&W work as good as that on my RB67, I'd be very tempted indeed to go LF. However, I'm clearly not making it sing like it can, so perhaps it would probably be best to sell the F5 and spend the money on lenses for the RB67 and get better on that first.

Does this sound like a wholly more sensible option to you good people?

Highly more sensible. Being as tight as a Nun's er. Yet wishing. Watching your posts and replies, deff stick with what u got. Others are nice but can be a distraction.
Don't ever rule out LF, or indeed any other. Depends. Is it the image on the silver-halides? Is it the image as it is?
This is why I shoot digi/35mm/6x6/6x12/5x4.
Each to it's own
 
****so perhaps it would probably be best to sell the F5 and spend the money on lenses for the RB67 and get better on that first.***

erm you seem to be answering your own questions, just to add:- there are plenty of excellent shots from 6X6cm TLR cameras (and 35mm) with FIXED lenses.....so only progress when your equipment you own now is a limitation for your skills.
 
Hi Jonathan
I'd be tempted to explore the pricing of your F5, but be aware that it'll have to be good to get a decent price, so go in with your eyes open. I've had a look at yo_Tuco's work at the link and would agree that he seems to have a good grasp of mono film shots and how to get a fine result. Having also looked at his LF shots, there are only a couple that really benefit from the use of camera movements, so the main improvement would be in the overall detail from a larger negative.
*snip*
The bottom line is a decision on what will take your photography forward more: a chance to experiment in 120 or the discipline of single sheet photography. Only you can answer that one, but if cost is an issue then I'd be putting LF on the backburner as a maybe/someday thing to look forward to. G'night!

Highly more sensible. Being as tight as a Nun's er. Yet wishing. Watching your posts and replies, deff stick with what u got. Others are nice but can be a distraction.
Don't ever rule out LF, or indeed any other. Depends. Is it the image on the silver-halides? Is it the image as it is?
This is why I shoot digi/35mm/6x6/6x12/5x4.
Each to it's own

I think, having seen what MF is really capable of, I should be sticking with it, at least for now. Right you are, cost is indeed an issue, especially at the moment. I'll never stop thinking about going LF now I don't think, and so one day it will happen! Thanks for your advice chaps :)

****so perhaps it would probably be best to sell the F5 and spend the money on lenses for the RB67 and get better on that first.***

erm you seem to be answering your own questions, just to add:- there are plenty of excellent shots from 6X6cm TLR cameras (and 35mm) with FIXED lenses.....so only progress when your equipment you own now is a limitation for your skills.

I might be wrong, but answering my own questions with the aid of advice from others is potentially part of the process, no? :thinking:

Also, people might buy a TLR with a fixed lens because that is what they work best with... I bought the mamiya knowing that lenses could be interchanged and given the situation, would kinda like to take advantage of that. I think this situation is unique to the 'progress with kit once the kit limits you' argument, simply because I only own one prime lens for the RB as it is. With the sale of the F5, I could potentially get a 50mm and a 90mm to compliment my current 65mm. On the D700, I find myself sticking between 24mm and 50mm for landscapes as it is, so perhaps this is a good way to go?

Many thanks again to everyone for their advice, it's much appreciated!
 
With the sale of the F5, I could potentially get a 50mm and a 90mm to compliment my current 65mm. On the D700, I find myself sticking between 24mm and 50mm for landscapes as it is, so perhaps this is a good way to go!

The 50mm has a great FOV for wider landscapes on the RB67. I'd consider it pretty well essential for landscape work on the RB67. I have the 90mm and the 50mm and the 50mm pretty well lives on the camera.
 
With the sale of the F5, I could potentially get a 50mm and a 90mm to compliment my current 65mm. On the D700, I find myself sticking between 24mm and 50mm for landscapes as it is, so perhaps this is a good way to go!

The 50mm has a great FOV for wider landscapes on the RB67. I'd consider it pretty well essential for landscape work on the RB67. I have the 90mm and the 50mm and the 50mm pretty well lives on the camera. It's a floating element lens which means you do have to make two focusing adjustments , but you soon get used to it.
 
The 50mm has a great FOV for wider landscapes on the RB67. I'd consider it pretty well essential for landscape work on the RB67. I have the 90mm and the 50mm and the 50mm pretty well lives on the camera. It's a floating element lens which means you do have to make two focusing adjustments , but you soon get used to it.

The mamiya Sekor C one is a floating element? I thought only the K/L lenses had that? I am most likely wrong here!

Is it something that is obvious how to use or is there a special technique I should know about? :)
 
The mamiya Sekor C one is a floating element? I thought only the K/L lenses had that? I am most likely wrong here!

Is it something that is obvious how to use or is there a special technique I should know about? :)

The Sekor C is definitely a floating element lens - which means it has a focusing ring on the lens which has to be used in addition to the bellows focusing. I came to the 50mm from a 90mm C lens which is purely bellows focusing so I did forget to do the secondary focusing initially more times than I'd care to admit. :D

In practice you just bellows focus and then set the focusing ring on the lens to the distance you've focused at. A good guesstimate is fine, but if you omit this step you don't get images sharp right to the edges of the frame.

If you look at the focusing screen while turning the focusing ring you wont see it making any difference at all - it just adjusts the floating element of the lens for optimum sharpness across the frame. It soon becomes second nature though.
 
Cracking :) Many thanks for the info fella! Just need a buyer for this F5 now.

Come to think of it, the 65mm Sekor C has a focus ring on the lens as well... do you know if this one is floating as well? I've never once adjusted it :/ I previously thought it was just a DoF scale?
 
Come to think of it, the 65mm Sekor C has a focus ring on the lens as well... do you know if this one is floating as well? I've never once adjusted it :/ I previously thought it was just a DoF scale?

It sounds like the 65mm is the same as the 90mm then - it just has a DOF calculator scale which has no internal connection within the lens.
 
Just been snopping around... it seems that there was a version of the RB67 65mm lens that in fact did have a floating element!?!:thinking:

Some say is does, some say it doesn't.

EDIT: ok, now I feel really stupid! I can actually see part of the lens move back and forward when i turn the ring! it's very slight indeed, but I wish I'd known about this before.
 
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Just been snopping around... it seems that there was a version of the RB67 65mm lens that in fact did have a floating element!?!:thinking:

Some say is does, some say it doesn't.

EDIT: ok, now I feel really stupid! I can actually see part of the lens move back and forward when i turn the ring! it's very slight indeed, but I wish I'd known about this before.

:LOL: Better late than never!
 
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