Do you believe in the 'War on Terror' ?????

Gandhi

Gandhi

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Yes
Just interested in everybodies point of view really.

Watched Rob Newmans 'Oil' the other day and it got me thinking.

Really, are there Armies of terrorists desperately trying to gain entry into the UK to wreak their evil revenge? I think if this was the case we'd be subjected to considerably more violent events. I believe it's just an excuse/myth to try and keep people on the governments side. It doesn't take a massive co-ordinated effort to produce attrocities. The IRA proved that in the 70's.

Afganistan. There is a global shortage of opium to produce opiate based pain-killers. Rather than try to prevent the export of opium into the west as heroin, via conflict, would we not be better off curtailing the supply by supporting opium farmers by allowing them to sell their products to the pharmaceutical industry at a greater profit than they would receive selling it on the black market? It's cheaper to grow than it is to manufacture an analogue, but maybe that's the problem?

Do people really believe that we're in Iraq to provide democracy and remove an evil dictator, or is it that the US need a foothold in the middle east to secure the dwindling reserves of oil being as we have, as a planet, passed the peak of oil production?



Myself?

There's a very salient concept in Orwells 1984 that sums it all up for me. The two minutes hate.

Everyday, people gather together and are almost hypnotized, through the use of audio and visual media, to hate a particular country/religion etc. The argument for this is to expend excess emotion and create a self perpetuating cycle of consumption and production. To all intents and purposes, slavery based around war and controlled competition.

At the moment it's Islam, despite what we're told everyday, the underlying current is the struggle of Christianity against Islam. 30 years ago it was capatilism against communism, before that, the enemy was facism and so on and so on.



Am I a paranoid loony? Conspiracy theorist? Or just awake to what is really hapening in the world.

The sad thing is, I think a lot of people know about all of this, but choose to ignore it, bury their heads in the sand and carry on with life, no matter how grim it becomes, because the alternative is too scary, too much hard work and may just involve some personal hardship.


VIVA LA REVOLUTION !





/Discuss.
 
I look forward with interest to how this thread progresses. Yes, I have my own thoughts/ideas but not the vocabulary to express them.
 
Ignore it or worry yourself to an early grave!! its not going to change and your not going to find out the truth!!

Are the Yanks after the oil?? you bet you're sweet ass they are!! but so are we!! WMD was the basis of invading.. with what we all know about the way Goverments run im supprised they didnt "FIND" some.. Wink wink..

Opium for 'Nice' drugs.. well, all i can say is maybe G.W.Bush has his fingers in that piece of pie too.. who knows what they REALLY get up to..

And on the subject of Terrorists.. there is a secret war going on ALL the time with undercover stuff that we never hear of.. is it AS bad as they make out?? well, if its only HALF as bad then the extra security is all worth while..

At the end of the day, we'll only hear about the stuff they want us to know.. thats all!! people can knock themselves out trying to get to the bottom of stuff but they wont... :shrug:
 
Not worried, just exasperated really and frustrated by peoples ability to swallow everything they're told.

I just cant believe that if there was a concerted effort to wreak havoc in this country, as we're lead to believe, it isn't happening.

I mean, it only takes one disgruntled person with half a brain to blow up a car in a busy area. No mysterious 'cells' required and invisible to the security services until it happens.

ok, so intelligence gathering has improved since the days of the IRA, mostly due to modern electronic communications, but if somebody really wanted to kill people in this country it wouldnt be so hard to organise without attracting attention. Face to face communication and basic materials could be responsible for carnage, surely your average terrorist is no more or less intelligent than you or I and if my rioja sodden brain can work that simple fact out.......

It wouldn't take a 'spectacular' to draw the attention of the worldwide media. FFS, we're all so scared that the first thing they tell us on the news when a plane crashes or something catches fire is that 'Terrorist involvement is not susected'


I understand that there is soooo much we're not told about what is really going on in the world and will never find out. We'll never get to the bottom of it. If we ever do, it'll be when the world has moved on and we have a new enemy.


We first invaded Iraq in 1914 btw. A few battalions were sent there to prevent the constructon of a rail link between germany and the middle east to provide the german war machine with oil. Archduke Ferdinand my arse.

I don't want to get to the bottom of it. I want the world to wake up and realise that the bottom of it stinks of rotten fish, death and money.
 
I know what you are saying Gandhi But I bet there won't be too many responses to this due to our OTT political correctness society
 
Sod that Cobra!! its just middle to upper class do-gooder White slightly poofy (Sorry bout that) wet blankets that are the PC brigade!! they are gonna ruin the country and ruin the world!!

Even the Arch Bish wants to bring Islamic LAW to this country!!! omg!! what was he thinking when he said that!! EVEN the Muslims dont want it!!!! (That was lucky eh!!)

Anyway, you are of course right Ghandi, if we all got together we'd get to the bottom of it.. the trouble is you'd only get the extreme left to the party.. but you'd need everybody.. united.. it just wouldnt happen.. too many people would prefer to bury thier heads in the preverbial..

Would we really want to know?? would it stop the corruption?? not a chance.. there is too much money wrapped up in it all..

So, it looks like its a one man crusade.. well, two.. id come wiv ya... lol..

You do realise that the CIA and MFI (lol) watch all these forums and were now on the WATCH list!! ....
 
FFS, we're all so scared that the first thing they tell us on the news when a plane crashes or something catches fire is that 'Terrorist involvement is not susected'
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Speak for yourself, What the kneejerk media say the public feels and what the vast majority of the public actually feels are poles apart. If you believe the media (particularly the paper media) We're all going about 'raging' about this and 'furious' about that, 'living in fear' for our lives.
I for one refuse to live in a concrete bunker surrounded by security cameras, afraid to go out because some newspaper editor is under pressure to keep the profits up.

Remember the months following the Tsunami? if somebody in china farted on tuesday the worlds media carried screaming headlines the next day "Tsunami! run for the hills!"
You need to learn to distinguish between hype and real information
 
Re the original post. The thing, and what makes it so hard to combat terrorism is that there doesn't need to be an army, it takes only one or two, in fact 'an army' would much be easier to fight.
What the IRA did was give 'our' security forces invaluable insight and practical expertise in dealing with terrorism which serves them well today. The twin towers could not have happened in the UK partly because of earlier painful lessons learned. Our security services have been more successful at stopping attacks because of that expertise.
However, I think it's become clear to most that it's not possible to win a war on terror by violent means, you need to identify the reason why the terrorist exists and fix that problem.

Should we be in Iraq? no, quite simply, we should never have gone in. I believe the invasion was illegal and ill conceived and had nothing to do with 'terror', not that that was claimed until after the event. We should make every effort to leave as quickly as possible without putting those we sought to protect in even more danger.
 
Re : The Press......

This sums up exactly whether or not you should believe what they say :

On the news yesterday it was revealed that some conversations between inmates and their legal defense may have been 'routinely bugged'.

Within 2 hours, the headlines had changed to "Child killers like Ian Huntley could be released from prison due to the bugging of inmates conversations"

*thats* all the media care about.
 
Should we have gone into Iraq? Under international law you can only invade countries if there is a real threat to world peace. Hence the WMD being used to justify the invasion and why we don't intervene militarily in Africa where appalling genocide is being committed. The fact that there's no oil there is nowt to do with it. ;)

On a serious note, the war on terror here at home is now very real and it's foolhardy to think otherwise.
 
^^ Wot he said..^^

there IS a problem with internal security.. theres a lot that goes on that we dont hear about.. BUT!! its not the OK coral.. (Spell check !! lol)

Im a Tube driver and was at Stockwell station when the Brazilian got shot.. its a lng story but there was very nearly mass murder/suicide due to panic on the platforms.. i had matbe 100 people running in a blind panic in front of my train WHILE i was entering the station.. very scary..

I also know lots of people that were involved in the Bombs that went off on two weeks before..
 
I'm not for one moment suggesting that there isn't a problem with terrorism. I have no doubt that MI5 et al are up to their PDA's in stopping attempts to blow up this and that. It's more the fact that it's being exagerated in order to control the population and pass laws that at other times wouldn't get past the first reading. Id cards are a good example.

Fear is the greatest control of people and easiest way to get them to comply. This how we're governed now. That was kind of my jist really. That and the fact that democracy is a fallacy in modern society.

I agree that the media do their best to hype the situation and that it sells copies, but where does the control of the media come from? Due to their massive financial clout they hold too much influence over the democratic process for my liking. You just have to look at the Department for Government propaganda (otherwise known as the BBC)

I'm also not one of these conspiracy theorists who thinks the US scammed the whole 911 thing, before anybody suggests that.


Now........Climate change?

Government by fear based on a convienient fact that the planets climate changes naturally (although we're no doubt enhancing it's effects) or just an excuse for coporate exploitation of the 'green pound' lol ;)

MI5 can put me on their watch list all they like. I have absolutely no intentions of blowing anything up and falling into the trap of proving their point and sinking to the level of violence. I'm also NOT condoning terrorism or promoting it. Violence on any level is completely unnecessary.




Unless anybody fancies a bloody revolution as we overthrow the capatalist opressors next wednesday at about 5pm?



Or would that just put me out of a job?
 
Tony Blair Gordon Brown...kill...Prime Minister..President...bomb..9:15

Lets get some guest hits from Echelon :D
 
fraggle101 said:
Sod that Cobra!! ....
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Ouch :D I guessed that post may have livened things up a little :D

Gandhi said:
Unless anybody fancies a bloody revolution as we overthrow the capatalist opressors next wednesday at about 5pm?
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Ok I'll meet you out side the pub ( unless its raining of course)
does that sound apathetic or just pathetic :shrug:

 
No.

Like anything else there are elements of truth, but the facts are chosen or twisted to fit what people are required to think. Is that approach of mainpulation correct? Does there exist "an elite", and are they doing good by saving "the bewildered herd" who are unable to find the "correct path" for themselves?

That can be argued.

But the war on terror is a sham.

http://revver.com/video/295356/the-fkn-newz-06-08-07/
NB - Contains language some may consider offensive - personally I watch this every week. Keeps me sane after the so-called news shown on TV :)
 
Gandhi said:
I believe it's just an excuse/myth to try and keep people on the governments side.
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I think the British public is more concerned with the real threat of more stealth taxes from our lousy government, than any possiblity of a terrorist attack.
 
going to build me a concrete bunker ( just in case )
 
donutagain said:
going to build me a concrete bunker ( just in case )
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I'm sure some local council bureaucrat will prevent you from doing that or charge you to the hilt to let you build it.
 
Oh boy, i like this thread.. iv been thinking im all alone in my thoughts!! lol..

The trouble is, it only takes one group of fanatics to make a real problem, it dont have to be masses on terrorists!! so on that front im happy there is security..

The thing is, it IS a great way to make people conform.. dare i say just like a book written 2000 years ago!! thou shalt not do anything we dont like or you WILL burn in Hell!!!

Its scared enough people into blind faith and conforming... the trouble is, its got to be where we get most of our troubles from!! Ooops.. lol...
 
A few years ago a thread of this nature would have received hundreds of responses by now and some fairly emotive opinions would have been witnessed. Nowadays we have become so desensitised that terrorism takes second place to our own economic state. The media has become too good at shocking us and now even a story where 23 people are killed in a car-bomb attack in Irag goes un-noticed. Yes we are all aware of this "war on terror" but to be honest it's probably going to take another incident on the scale of 9/11 to get our attention.
 
Thats right.. the trouble is we tend to have the attitude that if it never happends to us... then it DOES happen and everyone comes together and its the old Dunkirk spirit.. then it goes a bit quiet and we get all complacent again.. untill!!! lol...

Anyway, like i said earlier, we'll never get to the bottom of why our beloved leaders do things... What i DO know, is, there are boys and girls working hard behind the sceens keeping us safe in our beds.. Safe from the people that our beloved leaders have p#ssed off in the first place!! lol..

And Climate change!! well, it was cold last week.. not so cold today... and its going to get cold again next week.. its chaning ALL THE TIME!!! can it get any worse!!!!! hehehehe....
 
War On Terror, lol, it makes me laugh just saying that out loud. I would be naive to think that I know exactly what the Bush administration is doing out in the middle east, but I know one thing for sure:- it sure as hell isnt to "defeat terrorists that threaten the great nation of america", or to "bring peace and stability to Iraq". To suggest that they (we) invaded Iraq because we care about innocent Iraqi people suffering at the hands of a tyrannical dictator is so ridiculous, its almost funny. Like Bush, and his oil baron, arms dealing mates give a flying crap about the wellbeing of Iraqis. Its an insult to expect us to believe that tbh.

I read something funny the other day...

My porn is like Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. I deny I have any, but everyone knows I do.
 
full auto said:
I read something funny the other day...

My porn is like Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. I deny I have any, but everyone knows I do.
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That would surely mean you actually DIDN'T have any.

Not only that, but you were telling everyone you didn't have any. They believed you, but since they wanted to take over your house, they were telling everyone that you did, and that they had to search your house.

:D
 
i dont really believe in it, its used was and still is used for the likes of bush and blair to gain as they so wish, such as oil etc. i dont support the war on terror but i sure as hell support the soldiers out there, and wish them every safety whilst doing their duty.



religion is the big terror though, cause of a hell of alot of problems throughout history because it gives people something to disagree about (can of worms is now open!) :popcorn:
 
Gandhi said:
Now........Climate change?

Government by fear based on a convienient fact that the planets climate changes naturally (although we're no doubt enhancing it's effects) or just an excuse for coporate exploitation of the 'green pound' lol ;)
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How true, when you think about it there were no chelsea tractors or areosols about when the last ice age thawed out...its all about taxing us for our own good.
 
It allways amazes me how some people think they're onto things with the "conspiracy theories", of ****ing course we're after oil, as a soldier friend of mine pointed out one day, if there was no oil, we'd still be in the dark ages. No plastics, no cars, no computers, no mass produced clothing, food would not be produced on the scale it is today, the population could not grow.

And why do you care anyway, we might have gone into Iraq for oil, but while we'v been there, we have removed a tyrant who is well known for atrocities in the region. We are, (unless you read the daily mail) rebuilding the infrastructure of a country, and by helping ourselves, we can invest in them.

I have more to write, but my father has just come home so im gonna go nick his car keys and go see my girlfriend in hospital, who, funnliy enough, thanks to the economic progression over then last hundred years, is benefeiting from adequate healthe care.

Peace out Hippies
 
No I dont believe in the War on Terror, it is a smokescreen. It is convenient because unlike a real war it can last forever. The powers that be feed our fears and we like mugs, believe what they say.
 
having served in the first gulf war the job should have been finished then fact. We had him on his knees if we'd have finished the job then the world would have took notice fact,
 
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