Do you believe in....

2blue4u

2blue4u

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John
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Yes
man-induced climate change?

To think that man has the ability to overcome nature, especially the power of the Sun, is naive in the extreme. Well, that's the view I've held from the outset of this politico-driven climate warning juggernaut. The evidence to show this great lie for what it is is growing and I've just read this great summary and update which I'd like to pass on. It runs to three pages but it is quite concise compared to some I've seen of late.

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/37938,features,whatever-happened-to-the-climate-change-consensus
 
Undoubtedly climate change is happening, however it has been happening since the last ice age...the Earth would still naturally be warming even if we were not here. However I do think our emissions have had an effect on the speed of this.....but how much? I have no idea!!
 
I think it's really a bigger question than global warming, or climate change (spot the difference!). We have to acknowledge that humans are incredibly wasteful. We also have to note the enormous natural disasters which are happening more frequently and with bigger devastation. As China and India, both countries with an enormous populations grow their economies the wasteful situation can only get worse. The resources of the world are finite and getting used up quicker and quicker. For no other reason than this I believe the human race has to have a radical rethink about where we are heading and find ways to positively change the effect we are having.
 
Global warming is a process that happens on its own regardless of our presence. The earth releases its own CO2 and Methane all the time, and the presence of these gases acts to trap reflected heat / radiation that would previously have escaped back out into space. The fact that humans pump frankly rediculous amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere doesn't help in the slightest.

Climate change is a result of global warming. But let us first clear one thing up. Global warming is simply a process name, and climate change is a result of that. In exactly the same way that if people were talking about global cooling, climate change would be observed also. The main problem is that people have associated "global warming" and "climate change" with bad opinions and so on. This of course points towards to the media scaremongering, and creating this association for us in the first place.

It is of my opinion that the earth is going to change temperature, no matter what we do. However, that is not to say we don't have an influence unto the severity of the process, and the extremes thereof. What people need to understand is that if the earth changes temperature, the climate will change as a result. The fact that we are helping is not good.
 
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Yes, people say climate change is a natural phenomenon which occurs whether we pump CO2 into the atmosphere or not. This is true, but I think there's more to it than that. Anyone who's seen Al Gore's film knows that where we're headed now is beyond the natural cycle of warming/cooling.
 
Sponsored by climate scientists of the International Coalition on Climate (ICSC), it stated: "There is no convincing evidence that CO2 emissions from modern industrial activity have in the past, are now, or will in the future cause catastrophic climate change." The Declaration calls for governments and others to "reject the views expressed by the UN IPCC, as well as popular but misguided works such as Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth".
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I wouldn't put too much faith in his work ;)
 
No no, sorry, I had idea in my head that you were one of these people who watched say one thing and formed an opinion solely on that. I was mistaken :)
 
I don't have much faith in the idea of man having a major effect on climate change.

If you are an out of work scientist you can get political and hence financial support to research climate change. finding there is nothing to it is not going to keep you employed.
 
its such a massive and complex topic, i am not sure what i believe or agree with tbh.
 
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it rained on monday as well...the plot thickens
 
It rained on Sunday too...and that didn't thicken no gravy.
 
Oh Dear....

Climate change is a complex area of study, that report from the OP has been comprehensively rejected by the greater scientific community.

I'm not an expert, but I did study the topic at uni (James Lovelock was one of my profs). it is interesting how so many of the organisations pushing the 'No Climate Change' story are funded by big business isnt it?
 
Are you a cybernetician or a cybernetist?
 
who? said:
that report from the OP has been comprehensively rejected by the greater scientific community.
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I didn't post a report. I posted an article that highlights the growing rejection of the UN position - by the greater scientific community!
 
who? said:
Oh Dear....

Climate change is a complex area of study, that report from the OP has been comprehensively rejected by the greater scientific community.

I'm not an expert, but I did study the topic at uni (James Lovelock was one of my profs). it is interesting how so many of the organisations pushing the 'No Climate Change' story are funded by big business isnt it?
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yes, it's almost like big business are trying to fix things. strange huh, i mean that's surely not what business is about... (y)
 
photon said:
Are you a cybernetician or a cybernetist?
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Did you search for that or are you another one? Most people have never heard of it.
 
< secret handshake >

Fellgett vintage, hence the Q.
 
2blue4u said:
I didn't post a report. I posted an article that highlights the growing rejection of the UN position - by the greater scientific community!
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No. You posted an article/report about a petition organised by an organisation which gets lots of money from oil companies. An organisation run by someone who is not a climate scientist. And that petition does not represent the view of the greater scientific community and certainly not the overwhelming views of the climate scientists.

Try reading the real science. (and that doesnt mean the simplistic stuff by Crichton or Gore).
 
When I was at school we were taught that we were heading for the next ice age and that investigations were going on to try to protect life when it happened. Maybe they just turned the heat control a little too far the wrong way.

Weather in the UK has always been somewhat unpredictable - does anyone else remember when the cricket got snowed off ............... in June !
 
About 10 years or so ago I was watching the Dimbleby Christmas lectures, where scientists were explaining to the gathered undergrads [or whoever the audience is] that the current global warming is a natural phemonema, dependent on the earths orbit around the sun and the suns activity, and so on. Since then, I have seen much evidence against and for this argument. MOST if not all this evidence has been produced by scientists who are funded by those with a financial vested interest, be it going back to the days of Maggie picking up on fossil fuels versus nuclear and the environmental effect to put down the miners, or Enron backing the 'natural occurance' claims. Sadly, all research has to be funded and the results can be made to say what the investers want.

However, here is my take - I dont believe that us humans are having a significant amount of effect on climate change, the natural disasters, increased temperatures and so on are all part of the earths natural cycle and far worse natural disasters have happened in the past - the difference then was that the earths human population was miniscule compared to current levels and hence those disasters often went unnoticed and unrecorded - only recent scientific discoveries have unearthed the evidence of their occurance.

Having said that, I suspect our wasteful 'live for now' attitude maybe in some very small way acting as a catalyst but I do think its a very minor effect rather than the massive one some quarters would have us believe.

Now here is the thing - if you do your bit to help slow down climate change, you can feel good about it either way - if it works, you have definately done your bit, if it doesn't, what have you lost? Ultimately most of the things we can do are money saving so even if its having no effect whatsoever, doing your bit will help your bank balance and make you feel that bit better knowing you have learnt to live less wastefully.

Just my h'pennys worth ;)
 
who? said:
Oh Dear....

Climate change is a complex area of study, that report from the OP has been comprehensively rejected by the greater scientific community.

I'm not an expert, but I did study the topic at uni (James Lovelock was one of my profs). it is interesting how so many of the organisations pushing the 'No Climate Change' story are funded by big business isnt it?
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It's just as interesting that those organisations that are pushing the MMGW agenda are lining their pockets with the "environmental taxes" being levied in it's name.
Universities are a prime example. If you want funding for research now you'd better be sure you mention global warming.

In my family we have three Geologists, one also an astronomer, a physicist an engineer and a historian. You'd be hard pushed peddaling your MMGW ideas over our sunday dinner
 
Has the global temperature risen in the last 10 years NO
Has the earth got is highest ever percentage of CO2 NO
Do I believe in man made climate change NO

Remember the documentary's in the late 70's early 80's stating we were heading for the next ice age, same scientific community saying the earth was warming in the late 90s and now the temp is not changing they are looking for something else to spend government (our) money researching, so it's not global warming is climate change.
 
spannerdude said:
In my family we have three Geologists, one also an astronomer, a physicist an engineer and a historian. You'd be hard pushed peddaling your MMGW ideas over our sunday dinner
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Give me a shout when one of them marries a climate specialist ;)
 
we're doomed all doomed .........well im knocking on a fair bit , so im probably doomed a little earlier than most of you reading this,,,but we're STILL DOOMED
 
So why are the ice caps melting then? Did someone leave them out of the fridge. I was a scientist and I did study climate change, and although I agree that there is a lot of scaremongering on the subject it can't be denied that it is only in recent history, since the onset of the industrial revolution, that there has been such an enormous increase in the production of CO2, methane, and particulates into the atmosphere.

The Earth is dynamic and self healing, but there comes a time when it will not be able to cope with all these excesses. If we are wise we will all try to do our best to counteract it, and leave a pleasant world for future generations. Every little helps.
 
hillwalkinggirl said:
So why are the ice caps melting then? Did someone leave them out of the fridge. I was a scientist and I did study climate change, and although I agree that there is a lot of scaremongering on the subject it can't be denied that it is only in recent history, since the onset of the industrial revolution, that there has been such an enormous increase in the production of CO2, methane, and particulates into the atmosphere.

The Earth is dynamic and self healing, but there comes a time when it will not be able to cope with all these excesses. If we are wise we will all try to do our best to counteract it, and leave a pleasant world for future generations. Every little helps.
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The same reason that they are melting on Mars. Martians in 4x4's?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

When Krakatoa erupted in 1883 the explosion was heard all over the world. It launched 300 cubic miles of seabed into the upper atmosphere, darkened the skies over the entire world for a decade. Caused bitterly cold winters, when the Thames for example froze over and people ice skated on it and the particles in the atmosphere caused vivid sunsets for a decade. (John Tyndall was my missus great uncle by the way ;) )

The quarter of a millennia since the industrial revolution started, including over a century of cars hasn't resulted in any such visible evidence. Man is utterly insignificant compared to mother nature.

We are damaging the environment in many ways and we should try to stop it. Telling huge great pork pies about CO2 causing climate change is going to prove very counter productive in this struggle. The IPCC has already been proven liars, they are claiming support from scientist who publicly denounce their findings and having claimed that the science of climate change was "sealed" in 2001 have already had to climb down on many of their initial claims and admit they were over exaggerated.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1536454/UN-downgrades-man's-impact-on-the-climate.html

Their increasingly apparent lack of credibility is going to cause serious harm to genuine environmental causes.
 
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i know David Icke is not very well thought of by most people but i found this video on youtube recently, he talks about our effect on the planet and frankly it's very moving indeed. i'm sure some of you may find it interesting......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBJKCz6Xhzs
 
spannerdude said:
The quarter of a millennia since the industrial revolution started, including over a century of cars hasn't resulted in any such visible evidence. Man is utterly insignificant compared to mother nature.
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Taking early data and extrapolating from that misses cumulative effects, misses the massive impact from compound growth, and from increasing numbers of users and energy intensity.

The whole "global warming" machine has a lot of people on the bandwagon for all the wrong reasons, and the signal to noise in the media is really bad for that reason. But that doesn't mean there's no signal. We have an effect, and it's increasing rapidly.

That said I don't think it's catastrophic - well, by that I mean we're well on our way to catastrophes that are far bigger than that one. On a pareto scale, that wouldn't be the main item I'd be concerned about if I was the one with power to allocate resources to problem solving.
 
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