Dodgy neighbour photographing next doors kids

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Duncan.F

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A good friend is having some serious problems with an unreasonable [and maybe unstable] neighbour and is been going on for years. This is generally around minor things like her sons football going over which Mr Nasty refuses to give back.
Anyway the son had a friend over, playing footy and the ball went over. The friend [aged 13] was perched on the garden shed roof trying to see over the fence to see where the ball had gone. Mum came out to get him down and noticed that Mr Nasty was taking photos of the child on the shed roof.
She was unhappy and had to explain to the childs parents the situation and apologise for the stranger taking photos of their son.
Question is has Mr Nasty committed an offence? He was in his garden the child was in their own garden....

Dunc
 
I would not have thought so if he was in his own garden.

He may object to the child climbing onto the shed roof to see into his garden, maybe with a view to climbing over rather than knocking on the front door and asking if he can have it back. Balls continually coming over a fence (and causing damage) can get very irritating after the first few times. He could have been "collecting evidence" in case the child climbed in.
 
I don't see how - at worse it may be unpalatable.............

you could look at it from another perspective, Mr Nasty has been harassed for years by the kids and is now keeping a photo record of their behavious with a view to bringing a complaint to the police, and is doing so on their advice.

I'm not saying this is that case - just there may be more then one side to this
 
He's probably collecting evidence to send to social services about how you don't monitor the children and allow them to climb on the shed.
 
Was there an expectation of privacy? The 13 year old was on the roof of a shed looking into someone else's garden. Looks to me like the child would be in breach of the Human Rights Act (Article 8 Schedule 1) which covers the Right to a Private life.

Other than that, no offence has been committed in my opinion as the 13 year old could not expect privacy on the roof of a shed overlooking someone else's garden (it would not be unreasonable for people to look up and see what he was doing). The act of taking photographs is not illegal, one does not need a model release, one does not need permission.

If the balls have been going over the fence for a long time, he may well take you or the child to court for harassment and get an injunction and also damages for his garden. He may also use the images as evidence against the child as he may see that as breaching his Human Rights.

::EDIT::
As Hugh already said, he may be acting on the advice of Police or a lawyer.
 
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boyfalldown said:
you could look at it from another perspective, Mr Nasty has been harassed for years by the kids and is now keeping a photo record of their behavious with a view to bringing a complaint to the police, and is doing so on their advice.

I'm not saying this is that case - just there may be more then one side to this
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aye, could be along these lines, especially if he's been unco-operative in general before...

PsiFox said:
He's probably collecting evidence to send to social services about how you don't monitor the children and allow them to climb on the shed.
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christ, you would call social security because someone's 13 year old kids climbed on a shed? cut 'em out of the bubble wrap once in a while...


I'd leave it but keep an eye, if it happens again then maybe raise eyebrows... he could have been taking a photo of a bird in the garden or anything, and you saw it wrong... but yes, potentially legally dodgy as you would have reasonable expectation of privacy in your own back garden.
 
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Coldeh said:
Was there an expectation of privacy? The 13 year old was on the roof of a shed looking into someone else's garden. Looks to me like he would be in breach of the Human Rights Act (Article 8 Schedule 1) which covers the Right to a Private life.
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I'm sure that's exactly the scenario the powers-that-be had in mind when the drafted the HRA :thumbs:



























:lol:
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I'm sure that's exactly the scenario the powers-that-be had in mind when the drafted the HRA :thumbs:

:lol:
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Not saying they did, but the neighbour might well have a case using the HRA, it's not unknown. He does have the right to a private life and he could believe that someone was looking in on him, coupled with that the balls going over his garden fence and he might well just have a case.

Also edited my post a little to correctly put my opinion across.
 
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"Dodgy nieghbour" "Mr Nasty" "Possibly unstable"

Sounds like your trying to get TP on you and your mates side in this witch hunt.

He's been suffering harrasment from your nieghbours kids and mates "for years" and now your trying to insinuate he's some sort of p***, simply because he's trying to protect himself by getting evidence of the unsociable behaviour of his neighbours kids and mates.

I pitty the poor bloke.
 
perfectly within his rights to photograph them, just as any of us would be if we took photos of kids in a public park. There is no law against it. Sounds like he is simply collecting evidence.

I certainly didn't get any grief when I took photos of a youth tearing up and down my road on a mini-moto. The police confiscated his bike and thanked me.
 
Yep agree with a lot written above. Perhaps he is unstable but why don't you 1st try and have a calm discussion with him about why he was taking the photos? Maybe he's annoyed about something. Perhaps this can be discussed / sorted before it turns into a Neighbours at War scenario?
 
toonamp said:
"Dodgy nieghbour" "Mr Nasty" "Possibly unstable"

Sounds like your trying to get TP on you and your mates side in this witch hunt.

He's been suffering harrasment from your nieghbours kids and mates "for years" and now your trying to insinuate he's some sort of p***, simply because he's trying to protect himself by getting evidence of the unsociable behaviour of his neighbours kids and mates.

I pitty the poor bloke.
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Mmm an unnecessarily barbed and ill considered response... I was simply asking advice as to whether it was legal to photograph a child on private land without permission.... At no time did I suggest he had ulterior motives for taking photgraphs. He certainly is a Mr Nasty he has on several occasions become very threatening to the lady of the house, not so brave when hubby is in. I know kids can be a nuisance but these are nice people, I would be happy for them to be my neighbours or recommend them to be yours. What more can I say. They have been incredibly tolerant of Mr Nasty's behaviour to avoid making the situation worse.

My friend has now had the police round on at least 7 occasions all at the neighbours request. At no time have the Police suggested they have committed any offence but the neighbour has been 'advised' to retain someone elses property was an offence and it was the Police who said they were a little concerned about his unstable behaviour and responses. They have said they are trying to keep the Peace! He has reported them to he council for keeping their bin in he wrong [?] place and not taking it in at night. He actually complained in writing to the council that our friends had a milk container on their driveway, outside their gate and was this legal!!

I have, for the record, told my friend it is their responsiblity to keep the ball in their garden not Mr Nasty to keep it out. I have suggested they keep a diary and stop pussyfooting round he old git and make a formal complaint of Harrassment!

Dunc
 
I doubt there is anything mentally wrong with him, just sounds like a bitter old busy body to me.

Just ignore him because nothing else will make a difference!
 
Duncan.F said:
At no time have the Police suggested they have committed any offence but the neighbour has been 'advised' to retain someone elses property was an offence and it was the Police who said they were a little concerned about his unstable behaviour and responses.


Dunc
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With all due respect, the police wouldn't say something like this to a random civvy, especially one that's in an ongoing dispute with the man in question.
 
Duncan.F said:
Mmm an unnecessarily barbed and ill considered response... I was simply asking advice as to whether it was legal to photograph a child on private land without permission.... At no time did I suggest he had ulterior motives for taking photgraphs. He certainly is a Mr Nasty he has on several occasions become very threatening to the lady of the house, not so brave when hubby is in. I know kids can be a nuisance but these are nice people, I would be happy for them to be my neighbours or recommend them to be yours. What more can I say. They have been incredibly tolerant of Mr Nasty's behaviour to avoid making the situation worse.

My friend has now had the police round on at least 7 occasions all at the neighbours request. At no time have the Police suggested they have committed any offence but the neighbour has been 'advised' to retain someone elses property was an offence and it was the Police who said they were a little concerned about his unstable behaviour and responses. They have said they are trying to keep the Peace! He has reported them to he council for keeping their bin in he wrong [?] place and not taking it in at night. He actually complained in writing to the council that our friends had a milk container on their driveway, outside their gate and was this legal!!

I have, for the record, told my friend it is their responsiblity to keep the ball in their garden not Mr Nasty to keep it out. I have suggested they keep a diary and stop pussyfooting round he old git and make a formal complaint of Harrassment!

Dunc
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Do you not think your puerile and barbed name calling and insinuations were "ill considered" in the first place?

Still sounds like your doing everything to besmirch the old codgers name.

I see your still refering to him in your simplistic way as Mr Nasty.

As you and your good mates seem so sure he's unstable, why are you still allowing his kids to harras him.

I'm sure he's not making up his complaints and though he may not be the most sympathetic of people I'm also sure that his nieghbours have a lot to answer for.

As we're only getting your very biased viewpoint I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
Duncan.F said:
At no time did I suggest he had ulterior motives for taking photgraphs
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You have come on a public forum for the whole world to see, calling the man names and suggesting he might be unstable... your words. thats not asking advice, thats Character assassination ...
 
Duncan.F said:
At no time did I suggest he had ulterior motives for taking photgraphs
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Sorry, but by using the word "dodgy" you were definitely implying he had ulterior motives.

I have to agree that it does sound very biassed and your choice of language amplifies this.

The fact that the police have been called around at least 7 times gives the impression that the football has been going into his garden on many more occasions, followed by children trampling all over his flower beds etc.

Without knowing the full story, my advice based on what you've said is to tell your friends to better educate their children on respecting other people's property, keep the ball in their own garden and stop wasting police time.

Leave the neighbour alone and I'm sure he'll leave your friends alone. It takes two to tangle and all that. ;)
 
Neighbors, everybody needs good neighbors, looking out for one and other......


just tell em to move out, sell their home for a loss and find a farmers field where their son can run round all day chasing his ball that he can't control, they should be able to keep an eye on him if they buy a decent tent or upgrade to a caravan with lots of plastic windows....


or they could be responsible and show the child the error of his ways and instill some community spirit into him.

Just my opinion of course :shrug:
 
Thank you for the considered responses, It would appear this man is not committing any offences from the replies! The actual direction of my question, [hence dodgy] was that I thought that if you wanted to take photos of children on private property, like a private event or school or party you needed permission. That was all, nothing more.
 
KIPAX said:
You have come on a public forum for the whole world to see, calling the man names and suggesting he might be unstable... your words. thats not asking advice, thats Character assassination ...
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It could be considered libel if we knew more about the neighbour as well.

Duncan, you have your answer. As far as this forum are concerned, the neighbour is doing nothing wrong in photographing the child. Whilst his complaints to the council and contact with the Police may be a different matter, the Police should follow those up themselves, if they haven't, then they must not be that concerned.

Duncan.F said:
Thank you for the considered responses, It would appear this man is not committing any offences from the replies! The actual direction of my question, [hence dodgy] was that I thought that if you wanted to take photos of children on private property, like a private event or school or party you needed permission. That was all, nothing more.
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If you are allowed to enter private property or have a view from either: your own property or; a public right of way; then you do not need to seek permission as long as there is no expectation of privacy. Note the expectation of privacy, if someone were photographing you from a street and you were in your bathroom, that might be an offence; if however, you were on your front lawn and someone from the street took a photograph, there is little you could do.

If you are told whilst on private property that you are not permitted to take photographs, and you do indeed commit such an act, you are trespassing. You must be told before the act and trespass is a civil offence, you must be removed by the landlord/tenant/agent.
 
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This unfortunately seems like another "hes got a camera taking pictures, must be a perv" assumtion. Tricky situation though without knowing everything and as above have said theres probably more to it than meets the eye.
 
WP-UK said:
This unfortunately seems like another "hes got a camera taking pictures, must be a perv" assumtion. Tricky situation though without knowing everything and as above have said theres probably more to it than meets the eye.
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Could be please this issue out of the thread! Some of you seem to be obsessed with this linkage, it was not intended nor did I intend to imply it! Jeez paranoia!
 
Duncan.F said:
Could be please this issue out of the thread! Some of you seem to be obsessed with this linkage, it was not intended nor did I intend to imply it! Jeez paranoia!
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Perhaps you need to think about how you title threads then?
 
We had a similiar situation to this a few years ago and if I had known then what I do now I would have said something both to the parents of the lad and the police and backed the bloke taking the photos.
The son of a family in our close was caught causing damage to a neighbouring garden centre. The owner took photographs of the boy in his garden centre and confronted the parents with the pictures. The parents called him every name under the sun for taking their son's photo and called the police who made him delete the pictures. The police threatened to arrest him if he didn't delete them.
I hadn't got in to photography then so didn't know that the owner was quite within his rights to take the pics and the police were in the wrong for making him delete potential evidence.
 
How do you know he was taking pictures of the kids, might not of even had a film/memory card in? Might of been shooting wide open and blurring the kids with beautiful bokeh.
 
DavidMartin said:
We had a similiar situation to this a few years ago and if I had known then what I do now I would have said something both to the parents of the lad and the police and backed the bloke taking the photos.
The son of a family in our close was caught causing damage to a neighbouring garden centre. The owner took photographs of the boy in his garden centre and confronted the parents with the pictures. The parents called him every name under the sun for taking their son's photo and called the police who made him delete the pictures. The police threatened to arrest him if he didn't delete them.
I hadn't got in to photography then so didn't know that the owner was quite within his rights to take the pics and the police were in the wrong for making him delete potential evidence.
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That's a fair call and a different set of circumstances. The owner was quite right to take photos of stuff being damaged. There's never been any suggestion the lad has caused any damage nor is it a regular event. Because of all the aggro they stopped the footy in the garden a long time ago, then his mate came round and the ball went over the fence....boys will be boys.
 
Wow wrong for taking pics .What if he had CCTV i guess that is making movies :'(
 
I knew this would backfire haha.

How often can the ball go over the fence and can it really be that 'harassing'?

Sounds like a bitter being and takes any excuse to get angry.

My Granddad is the opposite. Christ guys put out your torches and lay down your pitchforks. Tell the kids to take the ball to the park or something and play there, or maybe think about asking the guy if it would be okay to increase the height of the separating fence so as to reduce the chance of a ball going into his garden.

The guy is clearly a bit grumpy and so acting like everything is cool and being friendly is not going to heat up the situation any more, and may even cool it down.

I'm surprised that I'm the only one being slightly rational here.
And to answer your original question, no the guy is doing nothing wrong.
 
I'm killing this one - I can't see it progressing much beyond heated opinions one way or t'other :)
 
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