Down by the River - a problematic project

[Ed Sutton]

I've been walking this short stretch of my local river for some years on and off, taking photos because I'm convinced there's something to be done with it. But what, and how?



I've tried photographing 'stuff'.



At some point I thought I'd concentrate on where houses back on to the footpath. I even went along with my tripod to do it 'properly' one day.



Nothing worked.

Going downstream it had been very muddy in winter, the ground poached by cattle. I got stuck in an ankle deep pool of slurry one time, and another the path was closed for a few months when the river bank collapsed.

Then, two years ago, work started to gentrify the footpath and eventually make it part of a long distance path. The cattle are fenced off, the path has been stoned (although a top coat of sand turns to slutch when it rains), there are signs and new benches - and lots more people walking the river.



Over the years I've tried the landscape approach. that not being my thing it was another failure. However, the new path made for more graphic options. And while I don't like black and white for documentary I can't deny that it has a place for graphic 'art' type photographs. That's pretty much how I started out in photography. In black and white it really is much easier to make compositions that work. I also have a theory that if you put a white border round almost any photograph, colour or black and white but especially the latter, it automatically looks like 'art'! Sadly the white borders don't show up for me on TP. Not without some fiddling about.



Sans border it's just a snap.



It's starting to look that this might be a way forward. One thing's for sure it's got me thinking about making pictures. One thing I have started doing is shooting everything at f8. I might even restrict myself to a 28mm lens.

Is it documentary or is it art? My thinking so far is that if I keep people out of the frame it's art. If I people start to feature it'll be documentary - and that would have to be colour for me.

As that's the photo limit used up I'll put some more (borderless) eforts in the next post and await abarage of indifference or mockery!

 

[Ed Sutton]

Is this one a bit too lansdscapey?



And these two too documentaryish?

 

[sirch]

Really interesting piece of documentary and show the importance of taking photos that aren't just pretty.

 

[Harlequin565]

It's a good idea and I've been doing the same with a local woodland walk for a number of years. The advantage of doing it over time is that I have a fairly large collection of images now both in colour as well as black & white. One thing I've found with landscape/art type stuff is that a bit of contrast can help - especially with digital black & white as the clouds can sometimes get washed out by the sky. A filter can help (no idea how to do it digitally in post, but I have wondered what it would look like to take digital photos with, say, an orange filter to see what the B&W conversion would look like). Of course, if you're going for a flatter look, then that won't help.

I did chuckle at the white border reference and wondered whether I should tag Nige [edit: f/it @FishyFish ]

I like all the images save for #5 which for me doesn't fit in with the series for me because of the lack of river and it just "feels" more woodlandy. But that's really difficult to comment on at this stage because six images isn't really a good representation of the whole. The edge of the "new" path allows it to possibly sneak in...

 

[Ed Sutton]

It's a good idea and I've been doing the same with a local woodland walk for a number of years. The advantage of doing it over time is that I have a fairly large collection of images now both in colour as well as black & white. One thing I've found with landscape/art type stuff is that a bit of contrast can help - especially with digital black & white as the clouds can sometimes get washed out by the sky. A filter can help (no idea how to do it digitally in post, but I have wondered what it would look like to take digital photos with, say, an orange filter to see what the B&W conversion would look like). Of course, if you're going for a flatter look, then that won't help.

I did chuckle at the white border reference and wondered whether I should tag Nige [edit: f/it @FishyFish ]

I like all the images save for #5 which for me doesn't fit in with the series for me because of the lack of river and it just "feels" more woodlandy. But that's really difficult to comment on at this stage because six images isn't really a good representation of the whole. The edge of the "new" path allows it to possibly sneak in...

Thanks for the feedback and well done spotting the edge of the path in no.5.

When it comes to the processing of black and white I struggle. I did when I printed from film too. In the digital darkroom it's too tempting to overdo skies, even more so with Lightroom's new selection tools and dehaze slider. I picked up a couple of Creative Camera yearbooks and a a Fay Godwin recently and the trend at that time was for contrasty pics. Lots of burnt in skies and dodged highlights. I liked it back then but not now. It looks overdone.



At least it's easy enough with digital to reprocess pics if you decide to go for a different look. That's something I'll possibly decide on as this progresses. Although I think it's more an exercise in picture making than a project to produce a body of work.

As far as filters go I have also wondered how they affect digital files. Using the colour sliders in LR gives a lot of flexibility but runs the risk of haloing, filters might reduce that problem. I did have some Cokin filters for black and white, but think I used them all up as scrapers for removing glue!

Anyway, today feels like an afternoon sheep hunt is on the cards. The river can have a day off.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Really interesting piece of documentary and show the importance of taking photos that aren't just pretty.

Once again it's proved to be a case of "I wish I'd taken more pictures before the change". Looking through my Lightroom catalogue (unless I've not keyworded a load) there aren't as many photos of the river as I thought there'd be.

 

[FishyFish]

I did chuckle at the white border reference and wondered whether I should tag Nige [edit: f/it @FishyFish ]

I don't know if it makes my pictures look arty, but I do like a white border. I think it helps present the image nicely, a bit like a mounted print, or a Polaroid.

 

[Ed Sutton]

I think it helps present the image nicely, a bit like a mounted print, or a Polaroid.

Exactly that.

 

[Ed Sutton]

A couple more evening visits. Now I'm thinking of this as A Project I think I'm starting to overthink things and trying to hard.







Some morning visits might make a difference, maybe get me thinking more. Or just make some areas, like that in the third shot, look differently.

Still torn between recording and making 'art'.

 

[lindsay]

Looks like a candidate for one gf Ian's zines methinks?

 

[Ed Sutton]

Looks like a candidate for one gf Ian's zines methinks?

Shush.

 

[Harlequin565]

So *for me* I quite like the idea of "down by the river" where the river is hinted at rather than being (traditionally) front and centre where you'd expect. Frame 3 and the last really illustrate this well for me, but that's just my perception and I'm often wrong.

Edit to add: Overthinking is a real defect of mine. I empathise.

 

[Ed Sutton]

So *for me* I quite like the idea of "down by the river" where the river is hinted at rather than being (traditionally) front and centre where you'd expect. Frame 3 and the last really illustrate this well for me, but that's just my perception and I'm often wrong.

Edit to add: Overthinking is a real defect of mine. I empathise.

Thanks Ian. The thread title was just an easy working title to pick and probably won't be the final name for the project, although it is about the river and the path. I see what you mean about the pictures where the river has to be looked for.

 

[Ed Sutton]

One thing that I think might be a feature of this project is sunshine. If nothing else it will help give a consistent look to the pictures. Tried a late morning walk to see how that affected things. It did make a difference in what pictures were to be made. I also used my ultra-wide zoom, although mostly at 30mm which seems to be a good focal length for the path.

Still torn between making semi-abstract pictures and straight documentary-landscapes.











I think I might rather be taking photos with people in them.

 

[Penlens]

These photographs are certainly worthy of a project, and a zine! The sense of place is strongly evoked and created, with the paths signifying movement and exploration.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Dug out my polariser in the hope it might make a difference, mostly to the skies. Of course the sky was blue and almost cloudless! Still working on processing - and running out of ideas.

 

[NCV]

You, are doing just what I did when I was in a moment of time where I needed to do something new photographically. I took my little LX100 and for about a year, I photographed the anonymous little torrent that runs through our town. It is quite surprising how you can pull some good photography from anonymous places if you force yourself to see.

How to do it. Well just get your immagination working and try to be offbeat.

You can flip through my Ebook here

 

[Ed Sutton]

You, are doing just what I did when I was in a moment of time where I needed to do something new photographically. I took my little LX100 and for about a year, I photographed the anonymous little torrent that runs through our town. It is quite surprising how you can pull some good photography from anonymous places if you force yourself to see.

How to do it. Well just get your immagination working and try to be offbeat.

You can flip through my Ebook here

It just takes a willingness to stop looking for 'camera club' pictures.

I spent one winter taking photos in a local disused quarry. https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/out-of-stone-–-completed-project.593496/

Or flip the book - https://www.blurb.co.uk/books/4324659-out-of-stone

 

[NCV]

It just takes a willingness to stop looking for 'camera club' pictures.

I spent one winter taking photos in a local disused quarry. https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/out-of-stone-–-completed-project.593496/

Or flip the book - https://www.blurb.co.uk/books/4324659-out-of-stone

That Blub book is pretty cool

 

[Ed Sutton]

That Blub book is pretty cool

Cheers.

 

[The23rdman]

I like the project and feel you need to gain some confidence in shooting. These resources might help:

Teaching Photography - Philip Perkis -
Hands down the most important photography book you'll ever read. It's online via this link, but it's also back in print, I think.

Unravelling the mystery of 'boring' photography
I'm watching this right now.

 

[Ed Sutton]

This is very much a ''sandbox' sort of project. An excuse to play around with different lenses and approaches. This evening it was a 50mm lens and wide (for me) apertures.



I'm still thinking that walkers should be a part of this nonsense if anything's to come of it.



Or beasts of the field!



How about a Lee Friedlander pastiche?



Lens flare?



Deliberately blown highlights and wonky horizontals?



At least it got me away from the internet for a while.

A couple more pics and some info to follow.

 

[Ed Sutton]

I might try a walk just taking verticals next time.



In an earlier post I mentioned that this path is to be part of a longer one. Well the signs are now up and it will be part of "longest managed coastal path in the world". The King Charles III England Cost Path. I'd seen some new way markers, gates, and notice boards for it elsewhere the other day...



...and now they're on 'my stretch' which appears to be the end of the line for this section for the time being.



The 'alt route' might not go down well with the farmer who runs his sheep on that part of the river bank.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Looks like the 'alt route' wasn't approved of.



A lot changes in a month. Heatwave been and gone, vegetation grown and starting to go over, rain. A new bollard type thing has appeared, too.











It was something to do on a Tuesday evening in late June.

 

[viewfromthenorth]

I’ve got one or two ‘projects’ like this, although in reality they’re Lightroom collections of photographs taken in a certain place / area or of a theme over several years.

I’ve never done anything formal with them other than add more pictures but over time themes and idea do emerge e.g. how a certain scene changes over time, new or temporary things that emerge, signs, trees, etc.

Photographing an area you are familiar with and see a lot is a double edged sword - you become familiar with the details and are sensitive to changes. But on the other hand it’s easy to repeat yourself and you lack the perspective of an outsider where everything is new and fresh.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Photographing an area you are familiar with and see a lot is a double edged sword - you become familiar with the details and are sensitive to changes. But on the other hand it’s easy to repeat yourself and you lack the perspective of an outsider where everything is new and fresh.

By the same token photographing things you are unfamiliar with can lead to photographing things that are superficially interesting or make striking pictures but don;t get to the heart of the subject.

I got the Ian Beesley book Life the other day and while the photos are OK I find them to be made more interesting by the accompanying texts. I find the lack of text in most Café Royal books frustrating.

I'm also becoming less interested in making pictures which appeal to photographers but either mean something to 'insiders' or require an accompanying explanation. As per the quote in my signature: "Photos explain nothing; they describe."

 

[Harlequin565]

I'm really drawn to the images that show path with a hint of river. Makes it feel more like "down by the river" rather than "the river". The bench one third one up really works well.

Are you gathering prospective images together from within the project, or are they all still at the "throw it and see if anything sticks" stage?

 

[Mr Perceptive]

Dave, a lot of these images are tonally quite flat, this doesn't make them leap off the page. No doubt they might appeal more in print, but I can't help thinking that a slightly more aggresive style of processing might help bring things to life.

I get the overthink (and repetition), during the Covid years I took several thousand images of my village (town extension), lots are of the same view, but in different light, slightly different angles etc. I keep thinking there is a zine/small book in there, but at the moment I can't bring myself to it, its not mentally exciting enough, maybe one day though.

 

[Ed Sutton]

I'm really drawn to the images that show path with a hint of river. Makes it feel more like "down by the river" rather than "the river". The bench one third one up really works well.

Are you gathering prospective images together from within the project, or are they all still at the "throw it and see if anything sticks" stage?

Ta.

Still just messing about/passing time when I've nowt better to do! There is a thought at the back of my mind that if this makes a zine I could have 'with river' pictures on one page and 'without river' pictures on the facing page.

Dave, a lot of these images are tonally quite flat, this doesn't make them leap off the page. No doubt they might appeal more in print, but I can't help thinking that a slightly more aggresive style of processing might help bring things to life.

I'm deliberately making them tonally flat.

I don't want them to do any leaping!

It's my reaction against the sort of contrasty black and white 'street' photography I see that's all processing style and no substance.

 

[Mr Perceptive]

I'm deliberately making them tonally flat.

I don't want them to do any leaping!

It's my reaction against the sort of contrasty black and white 'street' photography I see that's all processing style and no substance.

Thats fair enough, I did wonder! I wasn't suggesting a modern street style, but something with a little punch, but they are your images and you should process them as you see fit, and not listen to me!!!! I think they would fair better in print (like the Paul Hart books on the fens). Maybe you need to print some and put them on the wall for a bit. I have a large magnetic glassboard in my home office, when I print something, I stick it on there for a time, to see how I get on with it.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Thats fair enough, I did wonder! I wasn't suggesting a modern street style, but something with a little punch, but they are your images and you should process them as you see fit, and not listen to me!!!! I think they would fair better in print (like the Paul Hart books on the fens). MAybe you need to print some and put them on the wall for a bit. I have a large magnetic glassboard in my home office, when I print something, I stick it on there for a time, to see how I get on with it.

I have a cork board I pin photos to. I might have a go at printing some out.

However....

There's still a strong possibility that if I do get round to making something out of this everything will get reverted to colour!

Of out shortly to go see if I can find this exhibition.

Sunderland Point Mission Hall

Sunderland Point Mission Hall Community Heritage centre

sunderlandpointmissionheritagecentre.com

 

[Mr Perceptive]

I have a cork board I pin photos to. I might have a go at printing some out.

However....

There's still a strong possibility that if I do get round to making something out of this everything will get reverted to colour!

Of out shortly to go see if I can find this exhibition.

https://BANNED/tessabunney/status/1670783937822486530

I think if you do colour, you'll have to be gentle (subtle) otherwise the street furniture might start leaping!! I'm coming round to the Paul Hart style............

I have some Tessa Bunney stuff (from Another Place Press) - enjoy the exhibition.

 

[Ed Sutton]

I have some Tessa Bunneystuff (from Another Place Press) - enjoy the exhibition.

Me too, and have the book of this project on pre-order.

Back later.

 

[Harlequin565]

Thats fair enough, I did wonder! I wasn't suggesting a modern street style, but something with a little punch, but they are your images and you should process them as you see fit, and not listen to me!!!! I think they would fair better in print (like the Paul Hart books on the fens). Maybe you need to print some and put them on the wall for a bit. I have a large magnetic glassboard in my home office, when I print something, I stick it on there for a time, to see how I get on with it.

When we had the decorators in, I had one wall done entirely in cork purely for this reason. I think that pinning photos up for a bit really gives you a sense of whether you truly like them or not.

 

[Ed Sutton]

I have some Tessa Bunney stuff (from Another Place Press) - enjoy the exhibition.

I did enjoy it, and my chat with Tessa. I think the exhibition has been extended for another month.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Another boredom relieving walk this afternoon. One theme that definitely has emerged is that of shadows on the path.



Even in the short time it takes to walk along the path to one end and turn back the light and shadows will change. I also see things differently walking one direction than the other.



Thanks to digital I took over 70 shots in just over an hour. A lot were trying slightly different framings or exposures. Quite a few were pratting about with things like sunbursts...



Or random crap that seemed like a good idea at the time...



Or trying to improve on previous versions of this view of a prefab/static caravan thing through the bushes where the new path has run out before the downstream boatyard.. Still not managed to get one I'm happy with.



The biggest revelation of the walk was this quickly grabbed snap as I was leaving.



Why? Because it's got people (and a dog) in it and it's in colour.

This could well be the end of my dive into black and white.

 

[Ed Sutton]

 

[Don Fischer]

I'm guessing this is England? Really nice to see some photo's of country side ove there!

 

[Ed Sutton]

I've been back a few times since my last post but never managed much in the way of pictures until today. Not that these two are up to much. Maybe one day I'll have enough photos from the river to make a coherent body of work? Until then it's a case of my usual opportunist snapping and getting an odd one that's worth putting in the folder.