Drove a hybrid car today...

D

Dale_tem

Messages
2,839
Name
Dale
Edit My Images
Yes
... won't do that again, too odd!!

Very odd, I never realised they didn't have gears. I knew it switched between electric and petrol, but thought that the engine was connected to the wheels like a normal car. Nope. Only the electric motor is connected to the wheels. This means when you want to accelerate hard you put your foot down, and the engine revs, the engine stays at the same note from 20mph to 70mph.

On the way to my destination I drove in my normal style and got 48mpg, on the way back I didn't go over 65mph and managed to get 69.8mpg. However I did hold some traffic up due to trying to accelerate in the eco band. Around town it would be great though, drove half a mile with the engine off and parts of my journey (5 minute average graphed out) I managed 100mpg for 20 minutes.

Is it for me? No, I get roughly the same mpg from my Leon Diesel. I do too many motorway miles for the town driving to be a benefti. I also want performance and enjoy driving, the hybrid removed any joy from driving.

Looking for a around town motor to potter about in? Seriously look at a hybrid :)
 
Dale_tem said:
I also want performance and enjoy driving, the hybrid removed any joy from driving.
Click to expand...

It shouldn't. Correctly designed and powered, you should be able to get better acceleration from an electric motor as they have maximum torque at minimum revolutions. A feature they share with steam engines - have you ever seen a Stanley steam car whizzing around a show field?

A few years ago, I saw a design for a car with 42 volt electrics with a combined starter motor and generator which was permanently engaged with the engine. When braking, it used the regenerative effect to charge the battery and on acceleration, it used the motors to assist the petrol engine.

So both motors were used using the strengths of each for different purposes. Electric to help accelerate and petrol for continuous driving where it can run more efficiently.


Steve.
 
I have driven the prius for years and it is a cvt gear box but the note of the engine does change as you accelerate, what did you test drive.
it not just the saving on fuel with a prius its also no road tax
 
wave01- Auris Hybrid

Steve Smith - They can perform, but this car didn't.

I think I now know why they can't have tow bars fitted.
 
Electric motors produce massive amounts of torque - but they do it instantly, from the moment they go. That produces some issues when you're putting it in a vehicle chassis as instant massive torque will just make tyres spin if it's all deployed in one go.

I do see why electric/hybrid cars can be appealing in certain applications, and I think the future holds some exciting prospects for performance vehicles. But at their other end of the scale, I was given a purely electric Nissan Leaf for a long weekend as part of a driver study, and I can honestly say it was THE most hateful and pointless (for my use) vehicle I've ever experienced. It certainly did nothing to allay my prejudices against that sort of vehicle, in fact it pretty much reinforced every one of them.
 
The volvo 4wd hybrid is quite nippy. The new leaf on paper looks reasonable too. Cost per mile for a hybrid including purchase price is a lot more than just getting just about any equivalent petrol/diesel car so they're currently a complete waste of money.
 
Steve Smith said:
It shouldn't. Correctly designed and powered, you should be able to get better acceleration from an electric motor as they have maximum torque at minimum revolutions.
Click to expand...
Acceleration is one thing, the feel through the accelerator pedal, instant response (delay waiting for engine to start before power arrives) etc., keeping it in gear/neutral power around the corner to keep the car balanced etc. Perhaps you can learn how to drive with an electric and it works, or perhaps you can't with these. The hybrids currently available are designed to be easy to drive and the opposite of sporty.

It reminds me of a Mk3 cavalier - it had power, it had power steering, but they build it to cruise, so every pedal was light and the steering was soo light it was untrue. You didn't feel connected to the driving and it just seemed to float along.

Steve -


I am not debating acceleration possible with electric, I am debating the current hybrid vehicles
 
wave01 said:
it not just the saving on fuel with a prius its also no road tax
Click to expand...

My car costs me £220/year to tax which works out at just over 60p/day. I know it's worth that extra to me.
 
Dale_tem said:
Acceleration is one thing, the feel through the accelerator pedal, instant response (delay waiting for engine to start before power arrives) etc., keeping it in gear/neutral power around the corner to keep the car balanced etc. Perhaps you can learn how to drive with an electric and it works, or perhaps you can't with these. The hybrids currently available are designed to be easy to drive and the opposite of sporty.
Click to expand...

Perhaps we should stop being so macho about driving and wanting to drive like lunatics in a public place. High performance should be for race tracks, not public roads. If you want to pretend to be a racing driver, pay for some time on a track (EDIT: This is a general comment, not directed towards you).

However, there's no reason why these things could not be emulated by electric power.


Steve.
 
Last edited:
Steve Smith said:
Perhaps we should stop being so macho about driving and wanting to drive like lunatics in a public place. High performance should be for race tracks, not public roads. If you want to pretend to be a racing driver, pay for some time on a track (EDIT: This is a general comment, not directed towards you).

However, there's no reason why these things could not be emulated by electric power.


Steve.
Click to expand...

No one has said they want to drive in the way you're suggesting. Having a fast car doesn't equate with driving like a lunatic.
 
wave01 said:
it not just the saving on fuel with a prius its also no road tax
Click to expand...

You mean like my Smart? (Well, technically my wife's Smart....)

There's something fundamentally wrong with hybrids. They should be a great idea but for some reason their mileage is usually worse than my Octavia VrS - and that's more fun to drive than most of them.

I suspect it's something to do with mixing electricity and petrol. Anybody know why they don't use diesel engines in them?

BTW if you want some fun, try a Renault Twizzy. But small children will laugh at you.
 
JonathanRyan said:
You mean like my Smart? (Well, technically my wife's Smart....)

There's something fundamentally wrong with hybrids. They should be a great idea but for some reason their mileage is usually worse than my Octavia VrS - and that's more fun to drive than most of them.

I suspect it's something to do with mixing electricity and petrol. Anybody know why they don't use diesel engines in them?

BTW if you want some fun, try a Renault Twizzy. But small children will laugh at you.
Click to expand...

New volvo 4wd hybrid uses a diesel engine.

The big range rovers achieve something like 38 mpg with their hybrid. Quite impressive for large petrol engines.
 
srichards said:
New volvo 4wd hybrid uses a diesel engine.

The big range rovers achieve something like 38 mpg with their hybrid. Quite impressive for large petrol engines.
Click to expand...

I guess that's it. They are putting hybrids in heavy vehicles with all the aerodynamics of a brick. That's impressive for a Range Rover - and the Lexus is really impressive for that size of vehicle. But I can't help thinking that if they could shove a hybrid into a smaller more aerodynamic car then they should easily get to 100 mpg. Especially if they use diesel.
 
wave01 said:
it not just the saving on fuel with a prius its also no road tax
Click to expand...

Shame it costs £1000's more in the first place. It would probably take you 10 years to break even.
 
I would never knock the "early adopters" though for spending their (or their company's) money on these types of car. Because it's that investment which pays for the development of this technology and the infrastructure to support it. I think there are some pretty good developments coming along soon with electric cars combined with hydrogen fuel cells (rather than petrol/diesel hybrids) and hopefully that will develop the infrastructure still further.
 
Steve Smith said:
Perhaps we should stop being so macho about driving and wanting to drive like lunatics in a public place. High performance should be for race tracks, not public roads. If you want to pretend to be a racing driver, pay for some time on a track (EDIT: This is a general comment, not directed towards you).

However, there's no reason why these things could not be emulated by electric power.


Steve.
Click to expand...

I completely agree :) Down the karting track once a month at the mo.

But to get the mpg they claim, you will cause traffic behind you, whatever the speed limit!
 
I used to own an E bike, 60mph top speed in seconds with the weight of a small child, off road was amazing but cars are different, tried the Prius and found it odd aswell, I will be pulled in when the map th acceleration correctly etc, I wouldn't mind a Teslar roadster though, performance cars shouldn't be left for the track, there is nothing wrong with fun as long as you are careful and not a knob on the road to be honest, my last car was pushing out 412bhp but it didn't make me an idiot, to be honest I was more cautious, it's also been proven that fast acceleration is required when there are idiots on the motorway pulling dangerous manouvres - everything has a positive and negative unfortunately!
Wouldn't mind trying the new BMW though :)
 
I had a Vauxhall Ampera for a long weekend demo. I was a very strange experience to drive a completely silent car, every junction felt like the car had stalled making you doubt it'd pull away when you pressed the "throttle" :eek:

It did go pretty well with a decent amount of torque but it didn't have the battery range or luggage carrying capability I need :)
 
There were plenty of rumours floating about that the next Focus RS was going to be a hybrid with independent electric motors on the rear wheels for a 4wd system. Won't be happening this time around though.
 
I am getting 57mpg in my prius and i don't bumble along in it and thats average/ tank i save on income tax as a company car driver too to the tune of £150/ month in my pocket
 
wave01 said:
I am getting 57mpg in my prius and i don't bumble along in it and thats average/ tank i save on income tax as a company car driver too to the tune of £150/ month in my pocket
Click to expand...

So about 3/4 of the mileage I can get in a diesel Smart (it averages out about 75 mpg). I'll say again, there's something very wrong about these hybrids. For the time they have been making them and the money invested they really should be better.

I really want them to work. But with the exception of the brand new (and pretty much untested) Volvo it seems the greenest car is an efficient diesel ATM. (The argument about pure electric cars gets long and tedious but the way we generate the electricity right now to feed them could do with a lot of improvement.)
 
The prius is a full sized car not a toy one. You really need to compare something larger for a reasonable equivalent. The 0-60 times of the smart are in the dangerous milk float category too.
 
srichards said:
The prius is a full sized car not a toy one. You really need to compare something larger for a reasonable equivalent. The 0-60 times of the smart are in the dangerous milk float category too.
Click to expand...

If a Prius were a diesel then 57 mpg would be good. Not great but good. But for all that tech they chuck at it it really really should be better.

Plenty of cars scoring over 80 mpg using conventional fuels. The Prius scores 135* but it seems its real world figures are way way off that if @wave01 's experience is typical.

[*I edited that because I put down 145 first, Prius is 135 according to the Telegraph - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...st-economical-cars-of-2013.html?frame=2485580 though even Volvo say their figure for the V60 is not sustainable]
 
Last edited:
My sister averages 57mpg in a Skoda Octavia TDI with 140bhp. The 0-60 of the auris hybrid is milk float level if you are trying to be efficient.

I talked to the sales people in the local Toyota show room and they told me no one can get near the claimed mpg, they have to show people how to drive. They have a route that the person who trains people on the prius got almost 75mpg on, he has been the closest at just over 65mpg, but most people are in the 50s.

The Prius mpg is 72, the plug in Prius has the 135 mpg, but that is because you can charge the battery by plugging it in, so it works differently.
 
my figures of 57 to the gallon are real world and are based on mixed driving. i have actually gone into real trying mode to see what it can do and i have had it up to 85 to gallon.
this is how the system works you start off and the car will decide petrol or electric or both. if you are in town then it will use the electric when it can and the petrol to keep the battery charged when needed. once on the open roda then the petrol engine is the one thats used and electric cuts in for more power if needed. as it is a cvt gear box it is always in the right gear so most economical.
as said above compare like to like yes some small diesels can beat it. but IMHO not around town. if you are in traffic stop start then you are using gas prius doesn't it uses electricity.
 
wave01 said:
my figures of 57 to the gallon are real world and are based on mixed driving. i have actually gone into real trying mode to see what it can do and i have had it up to 85 to gallon.
this is how the system works you start off and the car will decide petrol or electric or both. if you are in town then it will use the electric when it can and the petrol to keep the battery charged when needed. once on the open roda then the petrol engine is the one thats used and electric cuts in for more power if needed. as it is a cvt gear box it is always in the right gear so most economical.
as said above compare like to like yes some small diesels can beat it. but IMHO not around town. if you are in traffic stop start then you are using gas prius doesn't it uses electricity.
Click to expand...
Small diesels should be very competitive. My 2.2TDCi Mondeo is by no means small and that averages 53mpg over a tank I've even averaged over 60mpg to a tank.
As for stop/start driving, plenty of new cars now have stop start technology so the electric motors don't have that much of an advantage anymore.
 
Steve Smith said:
Perhaps we should stop being so macho about driving and wanting to drive like lunatics in a public place. High performance should be for race tracks, not public roads. If you want to pretend to be a racing driver, pay for some time on a track (EDIT: This is a general comment, not directed towards you).

However, there's no reason why these things could not be emulated by electric power.

Steve.
Click to expand...

....I totally disagree! High performance cars, driven responsibly, are far safer. Better acceleration for overtaking (get it over with as fast as possible), better braking (I would rather have powerful brakes and not need them than need them and not have them), better handling/road holding, more involving and focussed (more driving enjoyment and therefore less stress).

Electric power can deliver high performance but sound is an extremely important driving aid.

Don't talk to me about the feckin' Toyota Pious!!!! Yuk! And not as environmentally friendly as claimed - In the real world it's a dust-to-dust assessment of a carbon footprint which is important.

Yes, I have petrol in my veins and enjoy every mile in my high performance car - Currently 108,000 miles including both road and track.
 
Last edited:
JonathanRyan said:
So about 3/4 of the mileage I can get in a diesel Smart (it averages out about 75 mpg).
Click to expand...

Poor comparison thought.
The Prius is a decent sized four door car, the smart isn't...

That said, my parents passat estate averages 55mpg with minimal town driving. I know someone with a BMW 116d that averagesjust under 60mpg (and recorded, not indicated).

So yea, the hybrids could do better.
 
RichardtheSane said:
Poor comparison thought.
The Prius is a decent sized four door car, the smart isn't...
Click to expand...

Probably not the best comparison - but the only one where I know for sure the figures are right ;)

But hybrids really should be beating conventional fuel by so much it's not funny - regardless of size. There's something very wrong with the current generation - especially as the Prius is exempt from congestion charge and in the latest change my Smart isn't. It's almost like they are building them for people who want to buy a hybrid because it's a hybrid rather than because it actually pollutes less.

Let's hope the Volvo V60 is the start of a new generation.
 
Drove the Auris diesel this week, basically the same car but diesel instead of the hybrid. Managed to get 56mpg with my normal driving in the diesel. By comparison the hybrid only got 48mpg for a similar journey.

Around town hybrid, but if a lot of your driving is 40mph, don't get a hybrid
 
All these figures look great. I'm currently getting 23mpg from my Civic Type R!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top