DS clour labs paper icc profiles

[rjbell]

I've had some prints done at ds colour labs and they come out darker than i was expecting. So i've downloaded there paper profiles from the website. There youtube tutorial set the profile at the end before saving the image. Is this correct or should i do it before editing?

 

[ecoleman]

You edit with you normal adobeRGB, ProPhoto or whatever.

When you export your final image to a jpg file then you embed the ICC profile.

In Lightroom you do it through the print module. Choose print to file and ensure you embed the ICC profile.
Then upload the jpg to DSCL.

 

[Craig_85]

Whilst this is all good stuff and worth doing I bet this is more of a screen brightness issue than an ICC profile one.

 

[Brian G]

Whilst this is all good stuff and worth doing I bet this is more of a screen brightness issue than an ICC profile one.

I'd agree.
Are you using a calibrated monitor?

 

[HopefulM]

Whilst this is all good stuff and worth doing I bet this is more of a screen brightness issue than an ICC profile one.

Yes, definitely! I use a mac and usually have the brightness up quite high... catches me out if I forget to drop it down before printing!

 

[rjbell]

No I'm not using a calibrated monitor isn't that more about colour than brightness? Ive used the camera metering technique to set the monitor brightness. I don't have a problem with a inkjet at home. There website does say their printing process will print darker than inkjet so use their profiles.

 

[cargo]

Hi Robert. I feel for you it is very common from Dscl ( & I dont think think Dscl are the only printers that have this issue ) I use them and many do from my camera club. Most of us had the same issue. I downloaded the profiles but never used them as I altered the brightness of my screen downwards.
I now edit my images as I like them on my screen and before sending bump the brightness up a touch. Been fine since.

Gaz

 

[ecoleman]

Hi Robert. I feel for you it is very common from Dscl ( & I dont think think Dscl are the only printers that have this issue ) I use them and many do from my camera club. Most of us had the same issue. I downloaded the profiles but never used them as I altered the brightness of my screen downwards.
I now edit my images as I like them on my screen and before sending bump the brightness up a touch. Been fine since.

Gaz

This is not a DSCL issue or any other printers issue. I've had prints from DSCL before and they have been perfect.
I use a calibrated screen and output jpg's using their ICC profiles. Never had a problem.

I print my own prints now in an Epson and have the same experience. Calibrated screen using Marrutt Ink and ICC profiles. Prints are perfect.

You have to remember that your screen is back lit and will always look brighter than an actual print that isn't back lit. Soft Proofing will help with that.

 

[Brian G]

No I'm not using a calibrated monitor isn't that more about colour than brightness? Ive used the camera metering technique to set the monitor brightness. I don't have a problem with a inkjet at home. There website does say their printing process will print darker than inkjet so use their profiles.

"Out of the box" the majority of monitors are set way too bright.
It's obvious that, if you are seeing your images much brighter than everyone else, you are going to finish up with dark prints.
One of the first steps in running calibration software is to adust the creen brightness level to between 90 and 120 lux.
(For comparison, an iPhone 4 apparently has a maximum screen brightness of 540 lux!)
The ONLY way you can measure (and hence adjust) screen brightness is to use a hardware calibrator - you cannot do it "by eye."
It's very easy to dismoss the purchase of yet another piece of photographic equipment, especially something you only use once a month, but if you are serious about printing then you simply MUST use a hardware calibrator.
After a lot of research I've settled on the X-Rite ColorMunki "Display" which is available for just over £100 - maybe less if you shop around.
There's a ColorMunki "Smile" which is well under £100 but I have no experience of that item.
You are never going to get a perfect match between screen and print, since one is viewed by transmitted light and the other by reflected light, but I will say that the prints I get back from DSCL always closely match what I see on my Dell Ultrasharp monitor.
For club competitions I usually have standard lustre prints around A3 size, and I apply the DSCL profile, although I've noticed there is very little difference between a straight sRGB profile and the Fuji Lustre profile.
I don't print at home except for 6x4 postcard prints on a Canon "Selphy" dye-sub printer, which also come out matching my screen display.
For further information see the DSCL Support page - the first thing it says is "First and most importantly please ensure your monitor is correctly calibrated." followed b a video showing how to do it.
I couldn't see where they say their prints will be darker than an inklet.

 

[rjbell]

Thank you I guess I have to bite the bullet and buy a calibrator.

 

[droj]

Thank you I guess I have to bite the bullet and buy a calibrator.

Well no, you don't! Not before you've exhausted other possibilities. My opinion is that some people fall for marketing hype, and once they've 'invested' in a product feel bound to champion it to justify their outlay. Ok - it fits the age we live in. That's how Trump got elected, somehow - a vote for questionable substance. But anyway ...

I've been sending digital files to labs for a long time - from when most photography was still on film and computer displays were all crt's. Before some of you were born, maybe. And I never had a dark print. So listen.

I've never had a calibration device other than the seat of my pants. So let's rock!

It's been accurately claimed above that flat panel displays arrive too bright. Easy - turn it down. How much? Try 40%, or 50%. I'm being brief - that's step 1. You might correlate it with the prints that come back and adjust accordingly.

Step 2 might be colour balance. There was a free app called Adobe Gamma, once, but maybe there's something in your graphics card controls for this. Or get a test image from a lab and match your screen to it.

Get down & dirty - if it works, it works! Free yourself from the lure of yet more shopping!

Colour profiles are for fine tweaking. If you have Photoshop or similar, use them for soft-proofing, yes. It'll give you clues. Then you can embed them or just send srgb. Lab's advice isn't always clear.

The test is in the results. I never found it a huge deal. Generally, what comes back from various labs matches what's here on my screen.

 

[cargo]

This is not a DSCL issue

Hi Elliot.
Yes I agree it is not there problem. I did not put into type what my brian was trying to say very well. I also agree that really I should have my screen calibrated (too tight). That said from my experiances I now seem to get good results with my set up. I also agree you can't tell the differance wether you use there profile or srgb.Like I say many people at our camera club have come accross these issues from various print labs thus proving it is a user problem. Some of the guys and gals calibrate and some don't some use the profiles othere s don't.
Thanks for the info.

Gaz

 

[dandeakin]

My dscolourlabs prints have always come out quite abit darker than the image on my calibrated monitor , or my uncalibrated MacBook Pro monitor.

I always brighten the each JPEG as the final processing step before uploading it for printing which works for me.

 

[Brian G]

My dscolourlabs prints have always come out quite abit darker than the image on my calibrated monitor , or my uncalibrated MacBook Pro monitor.

I always brighten the each JPEG as the final processing step before uploading it for printing which works for me.

All I can say is that my DSCL prints, with the paper, surface and profile that I have chosen, always come back matching what I see on my screen.
I've NEVER done any "softproofing" simply calibrated my monitor.

I will repeat, you cannot accurately calibrate a screen "by eye" since the eye is the most easily fooled of all the senses.
You may eventually get it right by trial and error but it wastes so much time and at the end there's still no guarantee that you really got it right.

If you've calibrated your screen and you're still getting inconsistent results then I would respectfully suggest that you did it wrong.

 

[KernowChris]

Can I hijack this thread and ask if these are the steps to go thru...

1) Calibrate monitor

2) Install ICC profile

3) Edit/PP image in Lightroom/Nik/Photoshop whatever using sRGB profile

4) Export image to Photoshop to resize for printing

5) Use the Photoshop 'Convert to profile' option and select relevant profile. Now, what does this do, does this convert my sRGB colors to the nearest/equivilent profile color?

6) Export image as JPG. Two options here, 'Convert to sRGB' and 'Embed Profile'. DSCL website says the images should be saved as sRGB, but that sounds like it reverses the 'convert to profile' option above? Should I 'embed the profile'? One thing I notice is that in the 'export as' dialog preview, ticking the 'conver to srgb' changes the coloration of the preview and then ticking the 'embed profile' changes it again. This is where I'm confused as these steps seem a little counter productive!



Sorry for going over this again!

Chris

 

[jerry12953]

I've had prints from DSCL before and they have been perfect.

Perhaps more by luck than judgement I'm in the same boat.....

 

[jerry12953]

Can I hijack this thread and ask if these are the steps to go thru...

1) Calibrate monitor

2) Install ICC profile

3) Edit/PP image in Lightroom/Nik/Photoshop whatever using sRGB profile

4) Export image to Photoshop to resize for printing

5) Use the Photoshop 'Convert to profile' option and select relevant profile. Now, what does this do, does this convert my sRGB colors to the nearest/equivilent profile color?

6) Export image as JPG. Two options here, 'Convert to sRGB' and 'Embed Profile'. DSCL website says the images should be saved as sRGB, but that sounds like it reverses the 'convert to profile' option above? Should I 'embed the profile'? One thing I notice is that in the 'export as' dialog preview, ticking the 'conver to srgb' changes the coloration of the preview and then ticking the 'embed profile' changes it again. This is where I'm confused as these steps seem a little counter productive!



Sorry for going over this again!

Chris

Chris,

Do you use Lightroom? If so there's no need to export to Photoshop as you can do all the resizing, re-profiling, and converting during the export process in Lightroom.

 

[Brian G]

Can I hijack this thread and ask if these are the steps to go thru...

1) Calibrate monitor

2) Install ICC profile

3) Edit/PP image in Lightroom/Nik/Photoshop whatever using sRGB profile

4) Export image to Photoshop to resize for printing

5) Use the Photoshop 'Convert to profile' option and select relevant profile. Now, what does this do, does this convert my sRGB colors to the nearest/equivilent profile color?

6) Export image as JPG. Two options here, 'Convert to sRGB' and 'Embed Profile'. DSCL website says the images should be saved as sRGB, but that sounds like it reverses the 'convert to profile' option above? Should I 'embed the profile'? One thing I notice is that in the 'export as' dialog preview, ticking the 'conver to srgb' changes the coloration of the preview and then ticking the 'embed profile' changes it again. This is where I'm confused as these steps seem a little counter productive!



Sorry for going over this again!

Chris

Yes - That's the procedure, except you don't NEED to export to Photoshop to convert profile, you can do it in Lightroom.
Incidentally, if you are editing in Lightroom you are also automatically working in "ProPhoto" colour space since that's the LR default, it only changes to something different when you export the image.
Adobe also recommend you stay in "ProPhoto" when you export to Photoshop (set in the Lightroom "Settings - External Editing" menu) and only change to something else (sRGB, TIFF etc) for your final export.

In Lightroom click the normal "Export" dialog and decide where you want to save the image(s).
Under "File Settings" select jpeg and under "Color Space" the DSCL profile should appear on the drop down list (- you may need to browse for it under "Other" if it's not there.)
Select the profile, which appears in the "Color space" box, and the "quality" - I use a quality setting of about 80 which gives good quality without a huge file size.
Resizing images is a moot point and I don't normally resize, although I'm usually ordering fairly large prints (around A3.)
DSCL seem to work on the "300 dpi" rule for image quality.
It's not necessary to resize large images for large prints since anything above 300 dpi will give an excellent print resolution.
The only time you will get a warning (from DSCL) is if your resolution comes out too low (below 200 dpi) once you've set the final print size.
I don't think it will stop it printing, but it will warn you the image quality might be reduced.
I suppose for small prints from large file sizes it would be worth resizing to keep the file sizes down, but I don't normally order small prints.

 

[KernowChris]

Chris,

Do you use Lightroom? If so there's no need to export to Photoshop as you can do all the resizing, re-profiling, and converting during the export process in Lightroom.

Yes - That's the procedure, except you don't NEED to export to Photoshop to convert profile, you can do it in Lightroom.
Incidentally, if you are editing in Lightroom you are also automatically working in "ProPhoto" colour space since that's the LR default, it only changes to something different when you export the image.
Adobe also recommend you stay in "ProPhoto" when you export to Photoshop (set in the Lightroom "Settings - External Editing" menu) and only change to something else (sRGB, TIFF etc) for your final export.

In Lightroom click the normal "Export" dialog and decide where you want to save the image(s).
Under "File Settings" select jpeg and under "Color Space" the DSCL profile should appear on the drop down list (- you may need to browse for it under "Other" if it's not there.)
Select the profile, which appears in the "Color space" box, and the "quality" - I use a quality setting of about 80 which gives good quality without a huge file size.
Resizing images is a moot point and I don't normally resize, although I'm usually ordering fairly large prints (around A3.)
DSCL seem to work on the "300 dpi" rule for image quality.
It's not necessary to resize large images for large prints since anything above 300 dpi will give an excellent print resolution.
The only time you will get a warning (from DSCL) is if your resolution comes out too low (below 200 dpi) once you've set the final print size.
I don't think it will stop it printing, but it will warn you the image quality might be reduced.
I suppose for small prints from large file sizes it would be worth resizing to keep the file sizes down, but I don't normally order small prints.

Thanks. I've been doing the resizing in Photoshop, as odd as it may seem I found it easier, as up until now I found it awkward to get the right page sizes/templates/layouts/borders inside LR, but having spent a little time on looking at the this morning I now have a handle on that (I think).

Chris