DSLR or Mirrorless?

wardy07

wardy07

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I keep having an argument with myself over switching from Dslr to mirrorless camera & lenses in case I regret it!
I currently have a Canon 7D2 with various lenses but more often than not I'm feeling like travelling light but don't want to lose the IQ, AF and reach of my 'big kit'.
I'm predominately into wildlife / nature and wonder if I could achieve similar results by turning to a smaller mirrorless set up or would I be switching back sooner rather than later?
I would appreciate opinions on this especially from people who have done it and are happy that they did.
 
Why not both? :)

I use both for different situations.
 
kendo1 said:
Why not both? :)

I use both for different situations.
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I know what you mean, both makes sense but as I'm getting older, I find the weight of the big gear is becoming more of an issue, lugging big lenses and tripod around for miles is taking it's toll which is why I keep thinking should I switch.
It's really a question of how much of a compromise would it be and will I lose the ability to get the shots I want if I go smaller?
Are there any decent lenses available that will get me to 600mm with good results?
 
Olympus have just released a 300mm f/4 (so 600 equivalent) which is getting universally amazing reviews, amazingly sharp and 6 stop stabilisation - people are reporting high levels of keepers at 1/10s hand held!!

AF performance of mirrorless cameras still can't touch a good dslr so you would be taking a hit there but otherwise there are some cracking mirrorless cameras out there.

Fuji and Sony lack the long lenses at the moment so I think the only current option for what you want would be an Olympus EM1 plus the new 300mm which would come in at under 2kg for 600mm effective (or 840 with the TC) and the EM1 has probably the best AF of any mirrorless camera (currently), it's fine for most things except small fast moving things.
 
Slightly confused, was going to reply, but remembered we had discussed it before, what happened to this camera you bought back end of last year?

I just bought the EM-M10 mkii + 2 lens bundle from Wex so will be joining this thread hopefully soon.
Just 2 quickies to save me trawling through this long thread :
1. I want to get a couple of spare batteries, can anyone recommend the best ones to get?
2. Also want a case of some description - again, any suggestions would be welcome
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No-one was able to take in focus photographs before autofocus came along.:rolleyes:

100 plus years of images tantalisingly just out of focus...

Most of the time I use older manual focus lenses on my mirrorless cameras, though I do have autofocus lenses for them too.
 
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tijuana taxi said:
Slightly confused, was going to reply, but remembered we had discussed it before, what happened to this camera you bought back end of last year?
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Well...I ordered it but bottled out when it arrived and sent it back as I wasn't sure I did the right thing at the time.
Given what I take photographs of, I wasn't convinced that I would get what I have become used to from my DSLR kit which is why I'm asking more specifically this time as I don't want to make a mistake again.
Also I thought that the lenses that came with the kit I ordered at the time, wouldn't give me what I needed as they seemed to be inferior to what I am used to.
I'm genuinely wanting lighter equipment but am just needing a push in the right direction that's all really.
 
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wardy07 said:
I keep having an argument with myself over switching from Dslr to mirrorless camera & lenses in case I regret it!
I currently have a Canon 7D2 with various lenses but more often than not I'm feeling like travelling light but don't want to lose the IQ, AF and reach of my 'big kit'.
I'm predominately into wildlife / nature and wonder if I could achieve similar results by turning to a smaller mirrorless set up or would I be switching back sooner rather than later?
I would appreciate opinions on this especially from people who have done it and are happy that they did.
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If you're taking static wildlife shots mirrorless can give you IQ just as good as your Canon. If you're taking moving wildlife then mirrorless starts to struggle. I got infuriated with my Olympus EM5-II just taking ducks having a leisurely swim on my local pond let alone trying to capture BIF etc. The A6000 and EM1 are better in AF-C but still can't compete with DSLR.
 
There are several issues here...
kendo1 said:
No-one was able to take in focus photographs before autofocus came along.:rolleyes:

100 plus years of images tantalisingly just out of focus...
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I was a very late adopter of AF cameras - about 1 year between going AF and going digital, and the 2 things I'd say to this are:
My keeper rate has improved (especially with moving subjects)
Manually focussing using a camera designed for it is a completely different story to manually focussing a camera designed for AF...
However

kendo1 said:
Most of the time I use older manual focus lenses on my mirrorless cameras, though I do have autofocus lenses for them too.
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Many mirrorless cameras have an advantage in this regard, making them much more suitable for manual focussing.

So whilst you have a valid point and an easy life manually focussing with your mirrorless, I'd like to see your keeper rate with an APSC camera with a crappy viewfinder focussing rally cars in crap light, I'll bet it cant match mine with the 7d and 70-200 2.8 :)
 
Get a cheap EOS M2 kit off ebay, and adapter. Problem solved.

You won't be able to match the auto-focus and overall machine gun efficiency of the 7D2, but you can put it in your pocket when you are of wandering about. You can still use your canon lenses and decide later if you want to invest in any EF-M lenses and/or sell off your dSLR gear. My guess is you'll want to keep both, the main purpose for the mirrorless is to keep the gear size and weight down. It's not really feasible for wildlife because as soon as you stick a massive lens on it, you might as well be using a dSLR Still, you always have the option...
 
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Phil V said:
There are several issues here...

I was a very late adopter of AF cameras - about 1 year between going AF and going digital, and the 2 things I'd say to this are:
My keeper rate has improved (especially with moving subjects)
Manually focussing using a camera designed for it is a completely different story to manually focussing a camera designed for AF...
However


Many mirrorless cameras have an advantage in this regard, making them much more suitable for manual focussing.

So whilst you have a valid point and an easy life manually focussing with your mirrorless, I'd like to see your keeper rate with an APSC camera with a crappy viewfinder focussing rally cars in crap light, I'll bet it cant match mine with the 7d and 70-200 2.8 :)
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I wouldn't even attempt it, Phil :)
I'm into things that don't move much- landscapes, etc- so keeper rate depends on what else I can muck up!

Mirrorless is ideal for the lenses I enjoy using, as are my film cameras that were designed for them - split screen and microprism collar.

I use auto focus with my other cameras. I'm not a luddite :)
 
I never took a camera with me on holiday until I went first with the Fujis mirrorless and then moving to Sony A7(being FF), I always found the DSLR just too much of a hassle, for me the Sony is just great only negative are the lenses, few and expensive, I bought myself an adapter to fit the old Sony A mount, though that meant slow AF, which I am not too bothered anyway.
 
I had to switch,,the weight of my DSLR was getting to much to carry around,so it ended up just sitting their,now with Fuji which i am getting along with the system really well :)
 
TimmyG said:
Get a cheap EOS M2 kit off ebay, and adapter. Problem solved.

You won't be able to match the auto-focus and overall machine gun efficiency of the 7D2, but you can put it in your pocket when you are of wandering about. You can still use your canon lenses and decide later if you want to invest in any EF-M lenses and/or sell off your dSLR gear. My guess is you'll want to keep both, the main purpose for the mirrorless is to keep the gear size and weight down. It's not really feasible for wildlife because as soon as you stick a massive lens on it, you might as well be using a dSLR Still, you always have the option...
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That could well be a plan, thanks for your comments.
 
Just for the record I bought a s/h Panasonic GH1 (now up to GH4) and absolutely love it for a travelling camera. I also have a Nikon D3 for serious work but the GH1 goes everywhere with me. A great system. I also use Takumar lenses vi a cheap Ebay adapter but then again my photography is more landscapes and portraits enabling time for focusing.
 
I bought an xe1 to go alongside my SLR. I eventually sold the xe1. This was mainly because IQ was better on the SLR which was partly because I had better lenses for my SLR so the Fuji tended to stay at home. However, I do often think the A7R2 with top lenses would be unbeatable! But I just wish it wasn't quite so expensive....
 
Ross_Curtis said:
I bought an xe1 to go alongside my SLR. I eventually sold the xe1. This was mainly because IQ was better on the SLR which was partly because I had better lenses for my SLR so the Fuji tended to stay at home. However, I do often think the A7R2 with top lenses would be unbeatable! But I just wish it wasn't quite so expensive....
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That's the wrong way to look at it. It's actually a bit of a bargain when compared to the other high resolution camera options :D[/QUOTE]
 
woof woof said:
That's the wrong way to look at it. It's actually a bit of a bargain when compared to the other high resolution camera options :D
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Not when you compare it to the Nikon D810 which has a better AF system, more native lenses and is a better system in terms of accessories and support etc :p

Plus my EM5-II has 40mp capability :LOL:
 
The way I look at it is simple. If you are shooting moving subjects a lot then keep your DSLR for now otherwise just invest in a system and not a camera body, DSLR or mirrorless will do it.
 
snerkler said:
Not when you compare it to the Nikon D810 which has a better AF system, more native lenses and is a better system in terms of accessories and support etc :p

Plus my EM5-II has 40mp capability :LOL:
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Er... no and IMO it's a no on both counts for Nikon and Oly, neither have the mp count.

My comment was slightly tongue in cheek but I am getting slightly tired of folk saying that the A7 series are too expensive.

How much are the other 42mp back illuminated sensor cameras with IBIS? The only stuff with higher res are the Canon's and they cost more with arguably lower image quality.

The A7rII is IMO reasonably priced for what it is, when you look at what else is available. In 6 months or a yeaes time it might even look cheaper.
 
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woof woof said:
Er... no and IMO it's a no on both counts for Nikon and Oly, neither have the mp count.

My comment was slightly tongue in cheek but I am getting slightly tired of folk saying that the A7 series are too expensive.

How much are the other 42mp back illuminated sensor cameras with IBIS? The only stuff with higher res are the Canon's and they cost more with arguably lower image quality.

The A7rII is IMO reasonably priced for what it is, when you look at what else is available. In 6 months or a yeaes time it might even look cheaper.
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Likewise :p

Sony do tend to price their stuff pretty high tbh, much more reasonable after 12 months or so.
 
woof woof said:
Er... no and IMO it's a no on both counts for Nikon and Oly, neither have the mp count.

My comment was slightly tongue in cheek but I am getting slightly tired of folk saying that the A7 series are too expensive.

How much are the other 42mp back illuminated sensor cameras with IBIS? The only stuff with higher res are the Canon's and they cost more with arguably lower image quality.

The A7rII is IMO reasonably priced for what it is, when you look at what else is available. In 6 months or a yeaes time it might even look cheaper.
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Why are you getting tired of people saying that, I'd have thought only Sony would have problems with that ;)
 
When I retired and converted to digital photography as a hobby to get me out and walking around for my health I found I couldn't walk more than a mile with a big camera without needing a snack rest. I also found that I couldn't carry the camera in my hand for more than about twenty minutes without getting sore muscles which took more than a day to recover.

I kept walking and carrying the big camera as often and as far as I could. I slowly became fitter and stronger. Whenever I found that I could carry my gear bag on foot for a few hours without needing a rest I would add another lens to the gear bag. Now that arthritis in my right thumb limits the time I can hold the big camera up to my eye with a small lens, and makes it impossible to even lift the camera with a 1kg lens on it with my right hand, I've adopted the strategy of attaching a monopod to it just as a handle, so that my left hand takes all the weight. The big fat rubber grip on the monopod also provides such a good comfortable handle that I can carry it around with my right hand even with the 1kg lens on it.

I do now have to do some weight lifting exercises more than once a week to stop my hands and arms from getting gradually weaker, but they take less than a minute. I seem to have reached the age where my strength naturally slowly declines so that it becomes harder and harder to do what I used to do. That means in order to keep carrying my camera gear around I need to do some heavier exercises regularly. I keep my legs in shape by always using stairs, and always going up them two at a time. Luckily I have a staircase in my house :)

When I retired and complained to my doctor about fatigue and weakness he told me that the best I could expect at my age from exercise was just to slow the rate at which I was getting weaker. If I was lucky and determined I might even arrest the decline of my strength for a few years. Fortunately I took that as a challenge rather than good advice. That was twelve years ago. So instead of downsizing my gear I've so far managed to cope with upsizing it.
 
DSLR is my preferred choice as there is no substitute for an optical viewfinder no matter how good mirorless ones are its like looking at a cheep television screen, having said that I don't take it with me everywhere and use a G5X when I'm out and about. I think it depends on the individual and what your happy with.
 
Hotshots said:
DSLR is my preferred choice as there is no substitute for an optical viewfinder no matter how good mirorless ones are its like looking at a cheep television screen, having said that I don't take it with me everywhere and use a G5X when I'm out and about. I think it depends on the individual and what your happy with.
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That was my view on EVFs until I tried the Fuji XT-1. I think the EVFs are advancing so fast that the EVF vs OVF argument will be irrelevant for the majority of users.
 
architectfadi said:
That was my view on EVFs until I tried the Fuji XT-1. I think the EVFs are advancing so fast that the EVF vs OVF argument will be irrelevant for the majority of users.
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It's purely preference. I've tried numerous of the best EVF's (A77-II, EM5-II, EM10, EM1, X-T1 etc) and none can compare with the look of a good quality OVF imo, but that's not to say that they're bad and of course they have a number of advantages. After using my D750 it takes a while to get used to looking through the EVF of my EM5-II again.
 
architectfadi said:
That was my view on EVFs until I tried the Fuji XT-1. I think the EVFs are advancing so fast that the EVF vs OVF argument will be irrelevant for the majority of users.
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Personally I don't like EVFs, even the best ones. I appreciate the advantages the good ones have but I always feel disconnected to the subject when I'm using one. There are other reasons I'm not a fan and I love the purity of a good large OVF :)

I'd also argue that while they're certainly a lot better now, the progression isn't that fast. I have a Fuji still from 2004 with an EVF. A lot of people think EVFs are a new thing, but they've been around almost as long as affordable consumer digital cameras have.
 
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snerkler said:
It's purely preference. I've tried numerous of the best EVF's (A77-II, EM5-II, EM10, EM1, X-T1 etc) and none can compare with the look of a good quality OVF imo, but that's not to say that they're bad and of course they have a number of advantages. After using my D750 it takes a while to get used to looking through the EVF of my EM5-II again.
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You are correct, it is a preference but I think the majority are more concerned with auto focusing capabilities, sensor and lenses
 
I had mirror less Olympus - menu too complicated - for me and XT1. Some of the small size advantage with the Fiji is lost with some of their lenses and the battery life is not the best. For me personally if it's too big to fit in a pocket then I am carrying a bag and for me there is not that much difference in the bag size needed
 
nog said:
I had mirror less Olympus - menu too complicated - for me and XT1. Some of the small size advantage with the Fiji is lost with some of their lenses and the battery life is not the best. For me personally if it's too big to fit in a pocket then I am carrying a bag and for me there is not that much difference in the bag size needed
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This is pretty much how I feel - I have DSLR(s) and a Sony RX100 (with some older Fuji stuff thats pretty much unused). For lightness but still good IQ, its the RX100, if I'm carrying a bag, its normally my Canon 6d. I don't see the point in anything in-between, its a compromise of weight (from the RX100) and IQ (from the 6d and lenses) at the same time :)
 
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For me the turning point came after humping my D90 with an 18-200 around Italy two years ago. I tried managing with my Canon S90 but I can't get used to using a screen and no viewfinder.
I bought an Olympus OMD-EM10 a year ago and I am happy with the images. I moved from the two kit lenses (which I have but never use) to the Tamron 14-150 zoom and I am now moving onto some pro glass from Olympus and Panasonic.
Take a look at my Flickr page for some examples
 
If you can make sure you get a good hands on with what your looking to buy before committing. I swapped to a Panasonic G6 from a Nikon D7000 but found the body felt too small and fiddly in my hands, no matter how much I tried it just didn't feel right and I couldn't get on with it. The benefits of less weight, more inconspicuous etc were draws for me but end of the day I just didn't gel with it.
 
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