Each of us has a camera in our hand, but ...

As for art, it's down to personal taste, and a non-specific discussion about art will be like a similar discussion about food: "I like smoked bacon, you can't get better". "I like plain dry-cured back bacon, smoked bacon tastes like old ashtrays". "Nah, streaky bacon fried until it's crispy is loads better". "All bacon is horrible, I like tofu". "Tofu tastes like play dough, it's rank!". "Rubbish, you just don't know how to cook!". "This is the food section, not the cookery section, so do one!". And so it goes on, becoming ever more rude and bad tempered, just because of personal taste - or the lack of allowance for it!

I remain to be convinced about this. To pursue your cookery analogy, I can appreciate the skill and care that goes into creating a Michelin star dish; I can accept happily that it will taste delicious. If you like the ingredients. Most of the meals I've seen on Masterchef are ones I wouldn't eat because they contain something I dislike (e.g. garlic which gets everywhere these days) but I can still appreciate it, even if I don't like it. The difference between this and art (on this forum) is that personal likes seem to be the final arbiter of what's considered good/acceptable and rubbish. You may not like something, but that doesn't prevent your appreciating it for what it is. There are great photographers whose work I can admire, but never actually like. And that doesn't seem an illogical position to me.

So although personal taste will determine whether we like something, it should be possible to discuss the work aside from personal issues.
 
(on this forum) ... personal likes seem to be the final arbiter of what's considered good/acceptable and rubbish. You may not like something, but that doesn't prevent your appreciating it for what it is. There are great photographers whose work I can admire, but never actually like. And that doesn't seem an illogical position to me.

So although personal taste will determine whether we like something, it should be possible to discuss the work aside from personal issues.
Nail hit on its head, Stephen.
 
Snip:
So although personal taste will determine whether we like something, it should be possible to discuss the work aside from personal issues.
Which is what I said, "just because of personal taste - or the lack of allowance for it". :)
 
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As I finally have more than a few minutes to spare I will now give my answer to the OP :)

I enjoy learning about the history and culture of photography. I have many books, some are technical, but most are photo books, with a few philosophy of photography books (some of them don't even have any pictures!). I also have a number of art books as I find these equally important (like @StephenM). Now that I have taken early retirement I am considering doing some proper studying of art history as I find it fascinating, and for me, lifelong learning is very important. One of the more interesting books I read recently was "On Being a Photographer" by Bill Hurn and David Jay. I also look out for interesting videos/films, and found "The Salt of the Earth" by Sabastiao Salgado to be a "must watch" and would recommend it to everyone (certainly all politicians), regardless of whether they are a photographer or not. It shows how powerful photography can be.

I also go to exhibitions whenever possible, both photography and general art. The last two I saw were The Shape of Light at the Tate Modern, and Landscape - Tacita Dean at the Royal Academy (though this one has now finished). Neither was just photographic but did include photography, particularly the first. Both were very thought provoking.

All this helps with my own photography. Not in a technical sense, but in order to help me understand how other people have used their passion for a subject to provide direction for their work. I still have a long way to go, but I love the journey.

What I find disappointing is that on TP it is very difficult to have discussions about art in photography without it degenerating into an "us and them" debate (and I am not talking about this thread here). I understand that there are those who think that those discussions are total b******t. I disagree, but they are entitled to their opinion and I know that for most it would be very difficult, if not impossible to change their mind. That's OK. So why do they feel the need to get involved in those discussions? There are people on here I'm sure who think film photography is a total waste of time. They don't feel the need to go into F&C and tell everyone there that they are wasting their time. I don't particularly like bird photography, so I stay away from it. Perhaps it is because those art discussions don't have a particular home. Maybe we could have a sub-forum where this could be discussed. Those who find it all arty b******s could then stay out of it and allow discussions to be had among those who enjoy it. It would be a place to discuss books, exhibitions etc. and for those looking to learn.
 
A nice idea but I'm not sure that it would get many entries. For the curious there's quite a lot on-line already - reviews of photobooks, for instance, sometimes with flip-throughs of the actual book. Here, for instance: https://www.photomonitor.co.uk/category/book-reviews/

I suppose there could be a sticky of web links but I don't know why people couldn't just find these for themselves, and it would need to be maintained as links became defunct ...

http://www.tiltandshiftphotography.co.uk/the-slate-sea/
https://www.theeyefestival.com/
https://www.amber-online.com/collections/?show_all=true

Maybe a directory, then?

I just keep a bookmarks folder in Firefox stuffed with links that I want to re-visit.
 
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As I finally have more than a few minutes to spare I will now give my answer to the OP :)
Perhaps it is because those art discussions don't have a particular home. Maybe we could have a sub-forum where this could be discussed. Those who find it all arty b******s could then stay out of it and allow discussions to be had among those who enjoy it. It would be a place to discuss books, exhibitions etc. and for those looking to learn.

:agree:
 
I find it baffling.

I get the impression some people here wilfully don't want to look at other peoples work. They will however watch something like Thomas Heaton's videos and try to replicate the craft.

It's like someone ignoring the complete history of music and just wanting to copy Coldplay's chord changes.

Each to their own I guess ?
 
I understand that there are those who think that those discussions are total b******t. I disagree, but they are entitled to their opinion and I know that for most it would be very difficult, if not impossible to change their mind. That's OK. So why do they feel the need to get involved in those discussions? There are people on here I'm sure who think film photography is a total waste of time. They don't feel the need to go into F&C and tell everyone there that they are wasting their time. I don't particularly like bird photography, so I stay away from it.

I’ve never understood why people can’t just stay out of it either. I don’t particularly like football but I don’t feel the need to go to the Old Trafford terraces and start ranting about a bunch of overpaid prima-donnas that roll about on the grass as soon as anyone gets near them. But it's not just here, I've got friends and family who are more than happy to start a row over "modern art" seemingly for no reason. Some people are just like a moth-to-a-flame with it but I think if there was a very active regular community then the trolls would wear themselves out quite quickly and the rest of us could get on with it. However I think @drog is right I don’t think you would get much traffic in a dedicated forum and so on the occasions that something did come up it would be a trolls field day. I know it’s been suggested before and I guess if someone took on the job of say putting up a weekly subject to debate and other regular stuff to keep people engaged it might work.
 
"The Salt of the Earth" by Sabastiao Salgado to be a "must watch" and would recommend it to everyone (certainly all politicians), regardless of whether they are a photographer or not. It shows how powerful photography can be.

One of the best documentaries I have ever seen.
 
A nice idea but I'm not sure that it would get many entries. For the curious there's quite a lot on-line already - reviews of photobooks, for instance, sometimes with flip-throughs of the actual book.
You may well be right, though I wonder how many posts don't get made because of the negativity they would attract. And yes, there is a lot online but having somewhere here to discuss things would be good.
 
One of the best documentaries I have ever seen.
Agreed - after seeing it I bought it on DVD so I can watch it whenever I need a reminder of why we do this.
 
So what about a "Talk Photographs" section?
Under "Photo Genres - Discussion"? Though photos to be talked about might be without genre? Or under "Main Discussion Forums"?
 
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I think it would be interesting to have such a forum. I have had a great deal of advice and information on a variety of topics since joining this forum. This year I have also ventured into buying a couple of lenses on here and have been chuffed with them. I have noticed that things tend to get bit heated, sometimes personal and unpleasant; I wonder why that’s happening. Just because some don’t appreciate the topic, that doesn’t seem to be reason to not give it a try.
 
I wonder why that’s happening.

Nature of the internet. Everyone gets a voice. Even the t***s. It's great though because without it, I'd be back in the dark ages with my photography. Severe case of "take what you like & leave the rest" :)
 
I have noticed that things tend to get bit heated, sometimes personal and unpleasant; I wonder why that’s happening. Just because some don’t appreciate the topic, that doesn’t seem to be reason to not give it a try.
Mostly it's down to an excess of testosterone ...
 
"The Salt of the Earth" by Sabastiao Salgado to be a "must watch" and would recommend it to everyone (certainly all politicians), regardless of whether they are a photographer or not. It shows how powerful photography can be.

I really liked his stint on the latest Art of Photography show - best guest by a country mile, so bought and watched the documentary. Powerful and incredibly painful to watch at times.
 
I really liked his stint on the latest Art of Photography show - best guest by a country mile, so bought and watched the documentary. Powerful and incredibly painful to watch at times.

Get his 'Genesis' book also, it's amazing but kinda daunting to get out and flip through as there's so much content. Almost wish I'd forked out for the one that came in a crate with a dedicated reading stand.

Also would definitely like a 'Talk Photographs' section to the forum.
 
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