Same here!I have a youngster at school with all the expenses, and I still eat as much as before, the only part there that is correct is no expense of travelling to work
and please use their services
Early retirement? Scary? anyone else done it?
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Wow
OK lets work through this
First off how do you determine both the definition and then cost of "basic standard of living"? Particularly since the cost at least is location dependant. (lets call this part 1)
Then, part 2, once you have overcome this rather high hurdle, how do you ensure enough people continue to work to finance it? Presumably by ensuring that it's worth their while to work for the "nicer" things in life? But to finance part 1, you will have to tax part 2 higher than currently, which will deter people on lower paid jobs from working as they wouldn't particularly benefit and may as well just do what they like all day.
Or do you increase corporation tax to fund part 1? But won't this just drive companies out of the UK,meaning an even greater burden falls on the individual to fund part 1?
Assuming you can achieve parts 1 and 2, we come to part 3
What happens to people too sick or too old to continue to work? Of course they still maintain the part 1 income, but that means they must now make do with a basic standard of living as they have no pension to supplement that, despite having worked all their lives (assuming they are someone who has elected to work that is).
Now I'm guessing that your answer will be they can save during their working life, but as we've already agreed (poetic licence here, I'm assuming you agree) their tax burden will be higher than currently, meaning saving as well as spending on the nicer things of life will be impossible for most people.
So what we have established here is instead of a "society that cares for the weakest" you have basically condemned them to a life of basic subsistence without any scope for betterment.
Or have I missed something?
Then you come to the transition period
Lets assume 3 age groups, under 30's, 30 to retirement age, already retired. I know this is a simplification, but bare with me
For those already retired, potentially a massive benefit from your scheme, their state pension is replaced by the part 1 payment meaning those with no private pension see a significant improvement in life as any savings they have accumulated throughout their working life are now just for the nicer things. For those with private pensions, less of a benefit as they will lose this, despite having paid into it all their lives, possibly by foregoing some of the nicer things in life during their working years to fund it.
Can't see that being a popular idea unless of course the part 1 payment is higher than their private pension + the current state pension. This group could easily be worse off than under the current scheme.
For those under 30, it's pretty much as described in parts 1 and 2, but these people are the most likely to have student loan debt and not to own their own home. How is this dealt with? Does this come under the basic standard of living? or are they expected to service their debt and buy a home from their (probably highly) taxed income? I use student loan as an example, but other significant debts are equally valid, people taking on these debts suddenly finding the goal posts have moved and their means of repaying them have reduced or gone altogether
For those in the age group 30 - retirement, I guess it's a sliding scale of the other two groups, some, the older ones, would potentially benefit whilst the younger ones would potentially not.
Just to add, as I seem to have gone off on one here, I agree completely with what I understand to be the intent of your post, in that in a fair world everyone should be entitled to a basic standard of living. Nothing in this world is fair however and to wish for that to happen is a pipedream
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"Nothing in the world is fair" - unless we make it so.
Imagine yourself sitting in your living room sometime during the 1870s. Could you imagine a national health service? Universal education to age 16? What about a pension for all citizens at age 65? All of those would have been pipe dreams par excellence and yet look at the situation today: each and every one of those unbelievable things is here, now.
They are here because people unlike yourself looked at what was needed. They ignored those who said that such things couldn't be done and just went out and did them. We need more people like those who did those impossible things.
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thats fair comment, to a point. You haven't actually addressed any of the issues I raised though?
The change in circumstances for the individual since 1870 is indeed remarkable, but it didn't come about because of a change in mindset, it was driven initially by the industrial revolution, which enabled the altruistic people in power during the economic boom of that era (of which there were few then and fewer now) and, in the case of the NHS, the pressures imposed on existing health services by two world wars, to introduce things like the NHS and education for all, because the country could afford it and those in power could see the benefit of such.
There was no equalisation of wealth to bring about those changes, nor any resetting of the class system, both of which would be required under your proposal.
Now it may be that with the advent of AI (as an example) we again have a seismic shift akin to the IR and suddenly all the problems of the world are solvable and we can all live in the Utopia you portray. I hope you're correct, but i'm 99% certain you're not and thats for the simple reason that the economics don't work, and as that's what the whole world is built on and always has been.
Your final paragraph is unfair. I've been an engineer for 40 years, my whole working life basically consists of identifying and solving problems, and I've been good at it. I don't tilt at windmills though as that's pointless
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The Universal Income idea has been tried (a couple of times I think, in a Scandi country and a limited trial here I think?) with mixed results - I don't know what conclusions were drawn. But I think post-pandemic there has been a major shift in attitude by younger people away from normal employment and more towards "side-hustles" and part-time jobs, so I rather fear that the tax take by HMG is going to depend on the willingness of less-skilled immigrants to do the jobs other people no longer want to do, and the higher taxing of professionals, which could be counter productive. So a universal income predicated on tax income is not likely to succeed. However a simpler guaranteed basic income system is going to be needed, akin to benefits, but in return for labour. I do feel that there is a need to ask for something in return for a guaranteed basic income, by those capable of doing something useful, in the form of a service corps, which provides the unemployed with a guaranteed job of some sort in return for income. Those not physically able, can often still do useful work, it just has to be appropriate. Is this unfair or an appalling idea? It might sound a bit communist, but is it wrong? Of course pensioners who have by definition contributed through a working life, would not have to trade labour for income.
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Commie
Communism in it's pure form is a wonderful concept, it only falls apart when you introduce human nature to the equation
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Social change for good or ill is driven by many "pressures" in no particular order nor seen in every country over the past 250 years....
Industrial development
Country to city shift in population
War or rebellion
Altruism by those with money & influence
Trade unionism
Social reform
Coup d'etat
Central control/command economy
Democratic changes
Demographic changes
et al !
In no country has been at this time a 100% or even close a system that treats 100% of its citizens fairly.
Perhaps in the next 200 years there may be a globally fairer society??? I for one would like to hope so.
Industrial development
Country to city shift in population
War or rebellion
Altruism by those with money & influence
Trade unionism
Social reform
Coup d'etat
Central control/command economy
Democratic changes
Demographic changes
et al !
In no country has been at this time a 100% or even close a system that treats 100% of its citizens fairly.
Perhaps in the next 200 years there may be a globally fairer society??? I for one would like to hope so.
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As is my arguing this subject with someone of your mindset.
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The best thing about retiring, whenever you do it, is the freedom to do the things for which you previously lacked the time...
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Is that your Landy?
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Sadly not.
I keep asking my wife if I can have another one but she just says no.
I suppose falling out of the last one when she was pregnant means she has her reasons.
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I'm guessing that'd do itI suppose falling out of the last one when she was pregnant means she has her reasons.
Dale.
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To be fair, that was 50 years ago. Then again, she's always had a long memory...I'm guessing that'd do it
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To be fair, that was 50 years ago. Then again, she's always had a long memory...
Maybe if you promise not to push her this time, she might relent?
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My "early" retirement has brought several things to light.
In November 2018, I was told they wanted to cut my hours by one day a week, but wanted me to spread the remaining time over the 5 day week!
So 20% less pay, with the same expenses, and the almost certainty I would hardly ever get away on time.
Did some thinking and some rough calculations, and the day before the planned meeting with the head, HR and the union (as much use as a chocolate teapot) I handed in my one months notice of my retirement. I had not even considered retirement until this came yp. (My last paid day was a Saturday which happened to be my 65th birthday )
Never had any time to be bored, plenty of hobbies and activities, and really not enough hours in the day.
But what has really come to light in the last year is one thing that had obviously been missing in my life for the past 20 years. Space and open air!
(To put it into perspective, I was brought up in Devon, out garden was just under an acre, with river frontage with our own moorings and jetty, we lived in Surrey with a huge garden with orchards and stables, and the rest of my life was spent in Zambia and South Africa, where the smallest garden we had was 1/4 acre, and we had a 50 acre smallholding)
Just over a year ago, we got out first allotment (now have more than one) and it has truly been a life changer.
The latest one I got about 7 weeks ago, and the nettles and brambles were over 6' tall over the entire plot. It is clear now, with things starting to take shape, but going there some days just before dawn and watching the sun rise is something I would not want to be without again.
I didn't realise how this must have been "in the back of my mind" for so long, but it explains why I love Dartmoor so much, and feel so at peace when there.
My wife grew up in a rural area, and she too has allotments, and can't get here away.
Been an interesting year, most of my growing experience was in South Africa, and all hers was in the Philippines, so we often do things or plant thing that people say we can't or won't work, but it has been amazing how many of those "won't works/grows have been huge successes.
What we have learnt this year has built on to our past experiences, and next year we know exactly what we are going to do in future to maximise enjoyment whilst minimising effort.
Obviousl not many are going to have a hidden need for space and the outdoors, but I'm sure many must have other "hidden" desires that retirement, especially early retirement can enable them to enjoy, if they can just identify them. I couldn't identify mine until it came along, and it wasn't one of the hobbies I thought I would be enjoying more.
In November 2018, I was told they wanted to cut my hours by one day a week, but wanted me to spread the remaining time over the 5 day week!
So 20% less pay, with the same expenses, and the almost certainty I would hardly ever get away on time.
Did some thinking and some rough calculations, and the day before the planned meeting with the head, HR and the union (as much use as a chocolate teapot) I handed in my one months notice of my retirement. I had not even considered retirement until this came yp. (My last paid day was a Saturday which happened to be my 65th birthday
)Never had any time to be bored, plenty of hobbies and activities, and really not enough hours in the day.
But what has really come to light in the last year is one thing that had obviously been missing in my life for the past 20 years. Space and open air!
(To put it into perspective, I was brought up in Devon, out garden was just under an acre, with river frontage with our own moorings and jetty, we lived in Surrey with a huge garden with orchards and stables, and the rest of my life was spent in Zambia and South Africa, where the smallest garden we had was 1/4 acre, and we had a 50 acre smallholding)
Just over a year ago, we got out first allotment (now have more than one) and it has truly been a life changer.
The latest one I got about 7 weeks ago, and the nettles and brambles were over 6' tall over the entire plot. It is clear now, with things starting to take shape, but going there some days just before dawn and watching the sun rise is something I would not want to be without again.
I didn't realise how this must have been "in the back of my mind" for so long, but it explains why I love Dartmoor so much, and feel so at peace when there.
My wife grew up in a rural area, and she too has allotments, and can't get here away.
Been an interesting year, most of my growing experience was in South Africa, and all hers was in the Philippines, so we often do things or plant thing that people say we can't or won't work, but it has been amazing how many of those "won't works/grows have been huge successes.
What we have learnt this year has built on to our past experiences, and next year we know exactly what we are going to do in future to maximise enjoyment whilst minimising effort.
Obviousl not many are going to have a hidden need for space and the outdoors, but I'm sure many must have other "hidden" desires that retirement, especially early retirement can enable them to enjoy, if they can just identify them. I couldn't identify mine until it came along, and it wasn't one of the hobbies I thought I would be enjoying more.
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I'm on my 5th LR product, and am still yearning after a Defender 90. 'Er indoors won't allow it as they are too noisy, too cold and too uncomfortable.Sadly not.
I keep asking my wife if I can have another one but she just says no.
I suppose falling out of the last one when she was pregnant means she has her reasons.
I have to make do with riving one twice or three times a year on LR Experience days.Just promise to sell it next time she is pregnant..Sadly not.
I keep asking my wife if I can have another one but she just says no.
I suppose falling out of the last one when she was pregnant means she has her reasons.
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Ah the good old days, when engines weren't full of electronics and were easy to strip down a rebuild
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Ah the good old days, when engines weren't full of electronics and were easy to strip down a rebuild
Just as well! haha This thing is like Trigger's broom!
The fan belt tensioner caused us a bit of an issue when refitting the belt because the tensioner hole was so worn from historical (over)use that the wrench was slipping. Tried a huge crowbar but it initially didn't work either because it pulled the section of belt just above tighter. Ended up inserting a few bolts and creating an independent fulcrum for the crowbar and just got it on. Saved £100+ on a new tensioner though.
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Almost back on track,
It has not yet been confirmed how much the state pension will rise in 2024, however, newly released figures show that wages (including bonuses) went up by 8.5% in May and June, which means that pensions will rise by at least this amount next year.
It has not yet been confirmed how much the state pension will rise in 2024, however, newly released figures show that wages (including bonuses) went up by 8.5% in May and June, which means that pensions will rise by at least this amount next year.
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£11502 pa if that percentage is confirmed (as it should be), likely to push a few more into the tax paying bracket as personal allowance doesn't seem likely to shift anytime soon
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And there was me thinking. hell that engine compartment is crowded and cramped compare to the old LRsAh the good old days, when engines weren't full of electronics and were easy to strip down a rebuild
Give me a 1600 Xflow any day, or the 3l V6 of the early 70s!
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i tried early retirement a few years ago, took a lump sum that allowed me to live fairly comfortably till "proper " retirement age, i finished work at 3pm on the friday, by 11 am on the monday i had enough and went and found myself another job,i took a step back from the managerial position of before that i found soo stressful that caused the early retirement in the first place to go back "on the shop floor", i only do 3 days a week, plenty of time to do stuff and get the satisfaction of working for a living and having a purpose
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We only had the 2.3 version in the Taunus, but none in others, they all used the Essex V6 and V4 (V4 was forever blowing head gaskets) and some also used the 2l OHC (same design as the 1.6 OHC here)Both easy to rebuild
It all started to go wrong with the V6 cologne engine
The main trouble with today's electronics is that it seems not many "mechanics" really understand how a car works these days, so if they get erratic or fault codes that don't really explain the problem, they just keep fitting new parts at the customers expense until it works again.
But it is an old story, not many understood the Jetronic system from more than 50 years ago.
OP
Mr Bump
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one of the wierd conversations a few years ago i have with a guy on a contract , he said wont you get bored stopping work at 55
my answer to him
I'm bored stiff now mate , work sucks !
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I think there are people who get bored, full stop. Never understood it myself. This world is full of amazing things to do, places to go, books to read, music to listen to, rivers to fish, roads to ride... Still haven't time for it all now, let alone when working!
OP
Mr Bump
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absolutely couldn't agree more , myself and the wife fell in love with Crete about 8 years ago on a 5 week (it all has to fit in a rucksack) adventure and thats what we are heading towards in retirement , we aim to be budget travel hobo's we have a small house there as well now.
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I can understand that, we had a couple of great family holidays there a few years ago.
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Sometimes holidays can be different to permanent living, but a lot depends on the individual.
Can't comment on Crete, however having lived in quite a few places and visited others, from the three countries I could retire to (without having to apply for anything) I am quite pleased to have been able to retire in the UK. There is plenty to moan about, and things are far from perfect (which would be the same for anywhere), but it is a beautiful place, plenty to do and visit, reasonably politically stable, relatively secure both in terms of crime and living, and really the weather isn't as bad as its reputation
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I agree.
However, once the locals realised we weren't a family of Germans, they were very friendly,
It was the 20 years behind the times that most appealed.
But then again, I guess things have moved on since we were there.
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I first went to Crete in '87*, and it was a beautiful, unspoiled and very traditionally Greek place that was mostly quiet outside of Ag Nik and Malia beach. Visiting Knossos, we were able to walk about in the rooms etc. We went again a few years back, and although there are still some traditionally Greek parts, it's become so built up as to be almost unrecognisable. The loss of the older Greek lifestyle will suit some - Paul has expressed a preference for this - but if like me, you prefer a more traditional Greece then I'd suggest Lesvos if you want an island, or mainland Greece north of Kalamata (don't go down south towards Stoupa - it's all purpose made concrete boxes for second homes). Also remember that out of season these places can be freezing cold, wet, half-shut and dead for 'exciting' things to do. It's another reason to go somewhere that has a traditional village life, and to ensure that you try to integrate into the culture, so that your friends will be around you and will invite you to take part in local festivities.
In 2020 & 2021 I spent some time looking at second homes in a variety of places. There were some more traditional village houses available on Crete at sensible prices, but they were relatively few. I did find a wonderful place in the hills North west of Kalamata, but couldn't get over to see it because Covid, and then it sold.
As a second home owner, posting from my kitchen in France right now, I'd say it's a LOT of hassle. It's relatively unlikely we'll ever live here ful time, even though we've made some good friends (went from vous to tu with some of our neighbours this week) it's hard to leave family and culture behind completely unless you have a reason for rejecting those things, as some do. In terms of cost of living, I reckon Italy and Greece would be cheaper than the UK, Spain possibly too. Food costs are almost double the UK here, unless you can grow your own or can find the fermier outlets (that we've not had time to research yet). Language is also a B*st*rd to learn well enough to be comfortably conversational, if you're not that way inclined - I find French especially difficult, and wonder if I'd have been better off with Italian or even Greek.
One more thing. If you're planning to retire in a place where you'll grow older, be aware of facilities, distance to shops, hospitals, neighbours etc. A classical thing for a brit to do is buy a remote farm house surrounded by an acre or 2, which becomes a burden as they lose the energy to maintain it, plus when there's a real emergency it can take the medical teams a long time to find the location and arrive, then transport the patient to the hospital. All of which can make the difference between a good recovery and a bad one for some emergencies of old age. There was a place I found in the Marche, Italy, with 30,000sqM of farmland. Nice house, fabulous location, but apart from the immorality of not working the land, it would have been impossible to manage.
Not to put a damper on things, but be aware the reality isn't necessarily like the TV shows.
*talking racial conflicts, I also remember sitting in Iraklio airport on the way back from that first trip, hearing the announcement for a missing passenger for a flight to Germany IN ENGLISH repeatedly, and they eventually gave in and did the announcement in German with a note of real anger and frustration in the tone of voice.
In 2020 & 2021 I spent some time looking at second homes in a variety of places. There were some more traditional village houses available on Crete at sensible prices, but they were relatively few. I did find a wonderful place in the hills North west of Kalamata, but couldn't get over to see it because Covid, and then it sold.
As a second home owner, posting from my kitchen in France right now, I'd say it's a LOT of hassle. It's relatively unlikely we'll ever live here ful time, even though we've made some good friends (went from vous to tu with some of our neighbours this week) it's hard to leave family and culture behind completely unless you have a reason for rejecting those things, as some do. In terms of cost of living, I reckon Italy and Greece would be cheaper than the UK, Spain possibly too. Food costs are almost double the UK here, unless you can grow your own or can find the fermier outlets (that we've not had time to research yet). Language is also a B*st*rd to learn well enough to be comfortably conversational, if you're not that way inclined - I find French especially difficult, and wonder if I'd have been better off with Italian or even Greek.
One more thing. If you're planning to retire in a place where you'll grow older, be aware of facilities, distance to shops, hospitals, neighbours etc. A classical thing for a brit to do is buy a remote farm house surrounded by an acre or 2, which becomes a burden as they lose the energy to maintain it, plus when there's a real emergency it can take the medical teams a long time to find the location and arrive, then transport the patient to the hospital. All of which can make the difference between a good recovery and a bad one for some emergencies of old age. There was a place I found in the Marche, Italy, with 30,000sqM of farmland. Nice house, fabulous location, but apart from the immorality of not working the land, it would have been impossible to manage.
Not to put a damper on things, but be aware the reality isn't necessarily like the TV shows.
*talking racial conflicts, I also remember sitting in Iraklio airport on the way back from that first trip, hearing the announcement for a missing passenger for a flight to Germany IN ENGLISH repeatedly, and they eventually gave in and did the announcement in German with a note of real anger and frustration in the tone of voice.
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It's a bit like that in the Philippines as well
Spend the first couple of days saying my name is not Joe and I am English not American, then things are much easier
Nod
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All the announcements there are still in Greek, then English. Didn't hear any other languages over the Tannoy.
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I left school at the age of 15 and started a 6 year apprenticeship. During those 6 years, I watched so many 'old boys', retire at 65 and drop dead within 12 mths, that it had a profound effect on me. - I promised myself that I would work hard and retire by the time I was 50.......
.......Twenty years ago, I did retire at the age of 50 and moved here to the Dordogne in S W France.......I only have one regret........should have done it earlier!
Life is too short and the older we get, the quicker it goes and the less we are able to enjoy it!
.......Twenty years ago, I did retire at the age of 50 and moved here to the Dordogne in S W France.......I only have one regret........should have done it earlier!
Life is too short and the older we get, the quicker it goes and the less we are able to enjoy it!
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