Electric scooters on pavements

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andya700

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Just been upstairs, looked out the window and a youngster (11-13 maybe) went wizzing down the pavement at around 25 to 30 MPH. It is not the first time I have seen him, but I know it is very dangerous and ILLEGAL. Is it worth me posting a message on the local FB page or reporting it to the police?
 
Police seem to ignore it.

Outside of registered schemes it is illegal to use one in public. In fact the legal ‘use case’ is so slim they should not be sold full stop or under special license like a shotgun license if you can prove you have access to enough land to make it worthwhile.
 
I think I may agree with you, that they wouldn't take any action, despite the fact that if he hits someone, they could be seriously injured or worse. If I post it on the FB page, I could be inviting trouble for myself, given that the parents know they are breaking the law.
 
If I were reporting it, I think I would choose to call 101, not posting on a public platform.

The electric scooters are a scourge on society. There are several which operate in this area. Many are used by adults, who presumably understand that what they are doing is wrong. One swung round a blind corner at some speed recently and nearly hit me. He said nothing at all, went around me and rode off.
 
I hate them but despite there being heavy legal restrictions on their use no one seems interested in enforcing them.

I don't remember having any close calls with them when driving but I assume if I do hit someone on one it'll be my fault and of course I'll be stuck with the repair bills.
 
woof woof said:
I hate them but despite there being heavy legal restrictions on their use no one seems interested in enforcing them.

I don't remember having any close calls with them when driving but I assume if I do hit someone on one it'll be my fault and of course I'll be stuck with the repair bills.
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It won't be your fault, but as it is illegal for them to be used on pavements or public roads, they won't be insured.
 
(This suggestion is offered entirely in the spirit of discussion and friendly discourse :D )

I suppose that one option might be to form "The Citizen's Pavement Protection Group for {insert area here}".

Citizens in the group could equip themselves with surplus riot shields and stroll around their area together . If an illegal scooter came along, they might then move parallel to one another, blocking the scooter's progress but without coming into contact with it, unless the rider chose not to slow down. This would be a non threatening community group, which I am sure would be careful to create no threat to anyone, unless that "anyone" was travelling illegally on the pavement.

..... just a thought. ;)
 
I think they are breaking the law twice. My understanding is that they are limited to 15 mph, however almost everyone doctors them.
 
I think one thing that users possibly overlook is the potential for fire and if one does burn their house down would their insurance pay out?
 
Jonny Guitar. said:
I think they are breaking the law twice. My understanding is that they are limited to 15 mph, however almost everyone doctors them.
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Even with a speed limiter they are still not legal, you cannot ride a privately owned scooter on public property legally. The only legal e-scooters are ones that are part of hire schemes.

A few years ago the expectation was that e-scooters would be made legal with similar rules to e-bikes but it seems to have gone quiet on that with no progress. If anything it seems to be going backwards with some companies who offered e-scooter hires are now looking to ban them entirely.

I think it's crazy major shops can sell them with the caveat *wink wink nudge nudge* you can only ride it on private land. Although some companies were getting in trouble for advertising them for commuting and I noticed in Halfords the other day e-scooters are much less prominent than they were before, a while back they had a huge stand of them at the front of the bike section.

Some police forces have been busy stopping and confiscating e-scooters and illegal electric motorbikes (which there seems to be a lot more of as well) but it seems tough to do and dependent on your area.
 
The "crackdown" on illegal e-bikes here seems to happen during late morning. IF they'd do it in the evening when the delivery riders are bombing around on them, they'd do far better!
 
JohnMcL7 said:
I think it's crazy major shops can sell them with the caveat *wink wink nudge nudge* you can only ride it on private land.
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There's no point in laws that cannot be enforced, typically because they're too specific.

Wouldn't it be much better to draft the law as something like "Anyone who makes, sells, buys or otherwise aquires an electric powered scooter or similar device, shall be subject to an unlimited fine"? It's all the "ifs, buts and maybes" in our laws, which cause much of the problem.
 
Raincloud said:
Laws for us motorists which are acted upon. While law for these e bikes etc are ignored...not fair. Not right...
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It may be difficult to place a number plate on them but a unique ID code in large size could be placed (in more than one location on the frame) on both the legal hire ones and the ones sold for private use.

With tampering with the displayed ID being an offence in its own right....................with in the case of privately owned ones being immediate confiscation & destruction.

In the case of the hired ones, if they have been used badly the hirer is removed from the hirer database and they are banned from future access.
NB this of course would need to be in the hire hire agreement that they sign up to.

PS I surmise that even if the hire ones can be stolen they still phone home with their location???
 
Jonny Guitar. said:
Thats why I said they were breaking the law twice.
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There is no 15mph limit on them so they can't break the law when it doesn't exist, they are currently subject to motor vehicle speed limits so they'd need to be going above the limits for cars for that aspect to be illegal. And if you want to count the number of times they're breaking the law, it's far more than twice because they are currently categorised as motor vehicles they are breaking rules on insurance, potentially license requirements, laws on displaying number plates etc.
 
andya700 said:
I would favour instant confiscation and then destruction of scooters being used on public roads and footpaths, no exceptions.
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That is the current approach and some areas have confiscated and destroyed many of them:

www.bbc.co.uk

Record 2,500 illegal e-bikes and e-scooters seized by Met Police

The seizures are part of an operation to crack down on road safety and phone snatching.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

It needs a lot of manpower though and doubt there's many areas where they're doing this, they're certainly not doing anything like that here.
 
In Ireland at least, the law regarding e-bikes or scooters:

"A compliant e-bike must meet these specific criteria:
    • Maximum Motor Power: 250W or less
    • Speed Assistance: The motor must cut off progressively as you reach 25 km/h
    • Pedal-Assist Only: The motor must only provide power while you are pedaling (no throttle-only riding)
    • Equipment: Must have front and rear lights during darkness [1]
Where you can and cannot ride:
    • Allowed: Local, regional, and national roads, as well as cycle and bus lanes
    • Prohibited: Motorways, footpaths, and pedestrianised areas
What happens if it doesn't fit the criteria?
If your e-bike has a throttle allowing motor-only propulsion (without pedaling) or exceeds the 25 km/h and 250W limits, it may be classified as an e-moped. E-mopeds fall under mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV) rules, which means they require registration with Revenue, motor tax, and potentially a driver's licence and insurance depending on the power category"


Certainly young kids should not be allowed to use them
I got an e-bike on the cycle to work scheme, it complies to all the above - I always hit the limit on my cycle to work, you can feel where the motor stops assisting, though you can go above this. I sometimes hit 18mph but I have to push for that unless going downhill.

On my regular route I often get passed by kids on scooters going double my speed.

For me, an e--bike is not about speed, I could match the speed on my standard bike, but with a lot more effort of course. It's the Torque that helps me go uphill with ease that I love about it. And just as I do with my old mountain bike, I stick to the rules of the road, unlike these kids pulling wheelies at 40-50kmph, hopping up and down the footpaths
 
The rules are the same for e-bikes in the UK although I dislike the term 'illegal e-bike' because e-bike is a specific term for a certain set of specifications so if a bike doesn't meet this then it's not an e-bike at all and an illegal motorbike.

I've certainly noticed a lot more illegal motorbikes here over the last year or so and the throttle control immediately gives them away plus the fact they're clearly doing well over 15.5mph.
 
Legal e-bikes can do more than 15.5 MPH, they just can't be powered when doing it.
 
There were a couple of young yobs in town on e-scooters forced a car to do an emergency stop then shot through the pedestrian area at speed
Don’t understand why they can’t have the things taken off them
 
Nod said:
Legal e-bikes can do more than 15.5 MPH, they just can't be powered when doing it.
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Yeah that's what I was trying to say I guess - you can have 'assist' up to that speed. After that it's your own personal power
 
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LCPete said:
Don’t understand why they can’t have the things taken off them
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Because those who insist on "doing good", regardless of how many decent people they harm, say we mustn't be unpleasant to nasty people ...
 
andya700 said:
Just been upstairs, looked out the window and a youngster (11-13 maybe) went wizzing down the pavement at around 25 to 30 MPH. It is not the first time I have seen him, but I know it is very dangerous and ILLEGAL. Is it worth me posting a message on the local FB page or reporting it to the police?
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About three months ago I reported a 20-something driving his car at about 50mph past our house every morning at 8.10am. I could set my watch by him. He lives a few hundred metres away in a side road but still manages 50mph. So..I reported him to the police. Type of car, colour, registration,time, description of the lad. The call-handler. said she'd forward details to the speed detection unit. Guess what ? Nothing was done. I recall the police having a crackdown on E-bikes/scooters them here but they are all over the place. Police in Europe just seize them and make out the fine to the parents.

A step in the right direction. Here, this year, police no longer need to give a formal warning they can seize the bikes./scooters That warning bussiness. That's typical of the way we do things here as alluded to by Andrew F. Gently ,gently, give them a chance. No.. just seize the bike and word will soon get round. I expect that kid will come a cropper soon. I just hope it isn't running into a pedestrian or colliding with a car.
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
There's no point in laws that cannot be enforced, typically because they're too specific.

Wouldn't it be much better to draft the law as something like "Anyone who makes, sells, buys or otherwise aquires an electric powered scooter or similar device, shall be subject to an unlimited fine"? It's all the "ifs, buts and maybes" in our laws, which cause much of the problem.
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Agree. What is the point of allowing the sale of something that, except in one limited circumstance, cannot be used legally?

Dave
 
Tringa said:
Agree. What is the point of allowing the sale of something that, except in one limited circumstance, cannot be used legally?

Dave
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As you're aware, they can be used on private land and hired out by companies like Voi There are,as far as I know, other types of off-road.(ie private use) vehicles for sale. What annoys me is that the legislators will have just said..they can be sold but not used on public roads/footpaths etc..parks..without giving any thought to the practicality of policing them . I've just Goggled what the latest Road Traffic Act was....1988. That's the base legislation but it's updated now and then, nevertheless it needs a new Act. These bikes need to be registered and insured. Kids are riding around on them at a darned sight more than the 15mph we hear about with no protective head gear. They don't have to be involved in a collision with a car to suffer serious injury..at worst a head injury, they just have to hit a kerb or lose control of it for whatever reason. Recently, I saw a young man, about 16, standing on the running board with a four or five year old (his brother ?) standing infront of him gripping the handle bars. I thought, I wonder what your parents would have say if they knew what was going on ? A common thing to see is youngster batting along the footpath, come to a side road and without as much as a glance back rides across the junction. On a couple of occasions my wife has told me she "knew" what the kid would do and didn't make the right or left turn..more often the right turn.
 
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