Beginner Elevating pictures to "worthy"

pjm1

pjm1

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Paul
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Ok, here is a perfect example of a real difficulty I have as a beginner. I've taken a pretty picture (IMO) but that's all it is. A snap of something I saw and thought, "ooh... that's pretty." Which has made the image also pretty worthless - it lacks substance, meaning, focal point etc.

Are such pictures "worthy"? Is there a place for them, other than for us new to photography to learn what we like from them and take those skills, features and aspects into the next shot which might be more "worthwhile"?

Sun & blossoms in spring by Paul, on Flickr

There are aspects of this picture I really like and want to replicate. For me, I think the sun flare has worked - highlight detail has just about been retained. Colour and contrast not washed out. I've boosted the sky a bit, but not massively. I like the backlighting on the protruding branches and the blossoms.

But the picture feels dead. It might be the drab trunks (would flash have helped?) but it's probably that there's no real focal point, let alone a story.

What can we do as we're learning to turn pretty pictures into something worthwhile? Does it always have to have hidden meanings and levels of appreciation, or can simple pictures be endearing. What could I have changed in this to make it interesting? I know this picture isn't "right" but I'm struggling with what to do better...
 
I think the dead feeling you describe is just because there's no single object to draw viewers in, the sun looks good, I like the nice crisp pinks and purples, and the moss/lichen on the trees and the new shoots. I think it's just because it makes your eyes wander around the picture looking for that one key point in the image. Landscapers tend to include a central object like a stone or landmark for the same reason I think.
 
Yes... that makes sense Dean. I was also struggling with how I'd classify it - is it landscape (no), is it scenery (no), etc.?

But, yes... I usually try to have one "subject" and here it's just a case of wandering eyes. It's background to a shot in which the subject itself is missing.
 
Stuff like this is worthwhile for learning the basics of exposure. Practising capturing a scene the way you see it and getting you thinking about light.

I agree that this picture lacks a subject. It also lacks any sort of compositional balance.

But pictures don't have to have hidden meanings or tell stories. Sometimes you might just want to capture a pretty scene, which is totally legitimate. But even then, for a photograph that stands out you want some kind of composition - some kind of balance - in the shot.
 
IMHO, 'worthy' images have one, two or preferably three key components:

- interesting main subject (always)
- good light
- composition that makes the most of those two

There are only three compositional guidelines worth knowing about: rule of thirds (basically position the main subject a bit off-centre); leading lines that draw the eye to the focal point (often positioned in one of the thirds); and fill-the-frame for impact (cut out everything else). Not all good pictures conform!
 
Maybe getting in closer to the main bunch of flower and putting it a thirds and than moving the camera to try and get the Sun on another thirds would have made it better.
 
Ghoti... thank you - that's it. It's the imbalance (caused by a lack of subject) which just leaves the eye drifting around and falling back to the sun. Had it had a particularly interest birdhouse (for example) in the top right, it might have been ok.

Richard and Pete - yes... I think sometimes an idea just doesn't work! This image has parts which are interesting and I'd like to repeat, but I need to use them in a picture, rather than as a picture. If that makes sense?
 
There is nothing wrong with taking a shot simply because you like the scene but you clearly want to go further and produce a shot that will have an impact on others. What you are doing is, IMO, exactly right. You are looking at your photos and essentially asking why anyone else would look at and like them.

The comments above sum up the elements that help to make a really good landscape shot (actually any shot).

One of the difficulties with almost any shot and outdoor ones in particular is that, as the photographer, you have the full experience. In addition to viewing the scene, you feel the weather, hear the sounds and it is not easy to convey these elements in a photo.

As already mentioned keeping the eye in the photo is important, or probably giving the eye one or two things to latch on to stops the 'loss of focus' effect.

I agree about moving in to get a smaller area of flower. I think that would concentrate the somewhat surreal effect of a plain background, the largely monochrome trunks and the vibrant colour of the blooms.

Dave
 
Its nice.
But if you took a dozen almost the same, shifting about while keeping the sun and blossoms and leaves all doing basically the same thing ... you might have got one without the uglier mass of trunks which form a duller mass just to the right of centre.
"Worthy" has to be very different for different tasks : pleasant, artistic, saleable : all different.
 
In my honest opinion, I think there are two things that are key in any good photograph and that is use of light and composition - having an interesting subject isn't important for me, as through your use of light and composition you can make the boring look magical. Look at all the old photos before there were super crisp lenses or fine grained film; they didn't have any special editing after effects or anything so all they thought about was light and composition.

Of course, photography being art it is incredibly personal and what one person may find incredible, another may find dull - for instance I really like the way textures and patterns appear through black and white, whereas someone else might instead like to have shown the vibrancy of colour in the image.
 
Thanks everyone... This has been very helpful in refining what I need to be taking pictures of. I'm not sure I quite have the answer, but I at least understand the questions!

It's a long road of progression and improvement but there's no point in doing what we do if we're not going to try to walk down it!
 
I also take some snaps, however for most of my photography I like to put a bit more thought into it.

For 'scapes and flowers etc it is light and composition, and very rarely moments.
For most other subjects it is "moments" and light, and to a slightly lesser extent composition.
 
Just enjoy what you're doing and keep taking photographs (and post in critique) - you will learn loads, more than you will just taking photographs without any feedback. Enjoy!
 
HoppyUK said:
IMHO, 'worthy' images have one, two or preferably three key components:

- interesting main subject (always)
- good light
- composition that makes the most of those two
Click to expand...

Completely agree! I'd also add response - for a really good picture you need a well composed, well lit subject and to think about how you want the viewer to respond or what feeling you want to evoke.

HoppyUK said:
There are only three compositional guidelines worth knowing about: rule of thirds (basically position the main subject a bit off-centre); leading lines that draw the eye to the focal point (often positioned in one of the thirds); and fill-the-frame for impact (cut out everything else).
Click to expand...

Completely disagree!

HoppyUK said:
Not all good pictures conform!
Click to expand...

Completely agree! The reason is that your three proposed guidelines are insufficient.

I think I've learned a lot from painting composition theory. Not saying that I can implement it well myself, but still. For books try http://goo.gl/MwES4P or http://goo.gl/600PFJ.
Other references include http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_(visual_arts), but also look at aerial perspective, figure ground relationships, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestalt_psychology and many more.
 
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pjm1 said:
There are aspects of this picture I really like and want to replicate. For me, I think the sun flare has worked - highlight detail has just about been retained. Colour and contrast not washed out. I've boosted the sky a bit, but not massively. I like the backlighting on the protruding branches and the blossoms.

But the picture feels dead. It might be the drab trunks (would flash have helped?) but it's probably that there's no real focal point, let alone a story.
Click to expand...

I think if you have taken the picture there was a reason, OK "Pretty" will do! That's good enough, you took it because YOU liked it, that’s the important thing .... As for keeper or delete I’m terrible at that unless the photograph is fatally flawed, or i say to myself "That Looks CARP" it doesn’t even make it out of the camera. But i keep a lot i shouldn’t, its a personal choice (It’s good to keep to see how much you have progressed sometimes).
Now the next questions you have to ask yourself Why do you like it? What attributes do you like, and you have already listed them. Now you have to ask yourself how could i improve it to your own taste of course! Remember it’s your photograph, you’re not taking it for us! Providing the exposure is correct, the lights how you wanted it, the focus is sharp, all the other things are down to the individuals interpretation.
I was terrible for seeing a shot like this taking it and walking away... Mistake! Like Ulfric says move around, take shots from different angles different perspectives see what works and what doesnt (Pictures are free now no developing costs nowadays! only in your post processing).
See if you can get back to the location and shoot it again, and try some different shots bearing in mind what everyone above has said, you will find that you get a shot thats really good i'm sure.

Also are you shooting in RAW remember you have to develop these (I'm sure you know this) but you only have to set your camera to take JPG and Raw and compare and you will see the difference this may/could be the reason you think it looks flat.

Most importantly take pictures, the more you take then more you critique your own work, the more you learn the better you get!
Even more important have fun doing it.

Cheers
Steve
 
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ooppss something weird happened on my post above?:eek:

Sorted! belay my last pipe
 
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I know what you mean Paul, but I think it's just about shooting things of interest that tell a story and draw you in. It's a lovely tree, but......... it's still just a tree :D

I'm really drawn to conflict photography where the main element is the "story", but the truth is that a large percentage of the most well known shots are so simple. They're just "right place right time" type of shots that are beyond most of us.

Have you thought about doing a project yourself, something that might interest you?
 
:agree:
What Adam says is correct picking a project is a fantastic way to learn. Take a hike through the Project and Themes pages here. There are other sites that set a project and give you all the basic tuition, and they set a submission date to submit your picture for critique.
The advantage of this is that, one you have to get a move on and do it, second you are taking photographs and learning how to shoot different genres of photography you wouldnt nesseccarlly shoot. This expands your knowledge across the board and when you come across a particular situation you know how to deal with it.
 
:agree:
 
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I did try and delete this duplicated post as our server had a fit:)
 
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Thanks both - the projects idea is an excellent one. I'll take a look...

I'm on holiday at the moment (hence the slow reply) and there have been a lot of different types of subject and styles in front of me, which has been good fun. I also think I've taken a few of my best pics here (others may disagree!)

I was thinking about something like the OCA course but I don't really need anything so formal.
 
Try this forums very own POTY. It will improve your photography and give you a different photographic task each month. Its got prizes too.

Link below.....
 
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I know exactly where you are coming from. If I zip through shots I've taken I just think, snap, snap, snap, lovely picture, snap, snap, snap etc, repeat. I need to analyse what the lovely photo is more I think.
 
Firstly, what the others have said.

Secondly, the thing about photography is that you need to think. You've seen something that catches your eye and you want to take a photo of if. Stop. Think. What was it that really caught your eye and what and made you stop, how do you get this across to people who aren't there? In this case, for me, it looks as though the thing that caught your eye was the pink flowers nicely backlit againt a dark background. Once you recognise that you can start to try and compose an image that shows it - in your image I can see one bunch that looks particularly bright and nice so I might have used that to compose an image (probably using the rules Richard mentioned - I'm not clever enough to break them that often).
 
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I have started taking a wide shot of things I'm taking pictures of, and then going about my normal routine. When I get home and look at the images, I have the wide shot to help give me other ideas on how to improve the images I took if I were to do it again. I also look at the images that I prefer and try and work out what I could have changed to make it a better picture.
 
Thanks everyone... I have to say, I'm loving the 52 in a year project. Ok, only 3 pictures in so far but thanks for the suggestions to try a project!

Also, Darren: what a great idea of taking a wider shot alongside my selected shot. The only downside for me is the faff of swapping lenses - I shoot a lot of my pictures (maybe just over half) with my 50-135 and usually towards the lower end (believe it or not, it's more or less as sharp wide open at f/2.8 as my 50mm f/1.8 prime stopped down to the same aperture - it's a beauty of a zoom). Unfortunately, that means I can't really pull back so I'd need to swap to my 35mm or my 18-55mm zoom. Not a complete deal breaker, but it's a bit of a pain.
 
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