England v Wales blog post up

Great images Tobers, best of luck with the nationals today, you should be all over like a rash!!!
 
I wish you could have the +half a frame of the try incident then it may prove once and for all.
 
They say the camera never lies but that was definatly a try, the ball was shown clearly grounded on a defferent camera angle
 
For it to be a TRY doesnt the hand have to be on the top of the ball to put pressure on it ?
 
Fantastic - really enjoyed reading and looking at that, although not as much as enjoyed the game.

I have put the link in my FB - if that's ok with you - if not I'll happily remove it.
 
grotty said:
No.
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There doesn't need to be downward pressure when in possesion anymore, but there can't be anything between the ball and the ground, including the players own hand.

For me, it didn't look quite grounded. Strettle's hand seemed to be under it the whole time. The only conclusive camera angle was blocked at the vital moment by Lawes' leg. Walsh said he thought it was held up (with some justification) so the only thing he could ask is try/no try and for that the TMO needed to find conclusive proof of a try, so right decision IMO
 
As stated the last shot in the blog links image sequence shows the ball grounded with nothing underneath it.
 
You're quite right, the other video ref angles did though, but obviously they didn't have the benefit of pitch side still photos to refer to. Basically it was a try but (correctly) couldn't be given on the video evidence available, and I suspect most people know this...in my very humble opinion of course.
 
cornishboy said:
Do you do much post processing Tobers or is it all out of camera?
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On these there is a bit of noise reduction and sharpening, and a bit of fill light to bring the shadows in their faces up a little.

jomantha said:
Fantastic - really enjoyed reading and looking at that, although not as much as enjoyed the game.

I have put the link in my FB - if that's ok with you - if not I'll happily remove it.
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Yep no problem.

Obviously I need 20fps to avoid controversy :)
 
grotty said:
As stated the last shot in the blog links image sequence shows the ball grounded with nothing underneath it.
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J.D. said:
Except that angle doesn't show if it's on/over the line
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Actually I think you guys are right. I have just re-read the laws of the game and the key wording on grounding the ball is here: http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/6/22/217/during-the-match/ingoal/grounding-the-ball/

And if you cant be bothered to click the link: "(a) Player touches the ground with the ball. A player grounds the ball by holding the ball and touching the ground with it, in in-goal. ‘Holding’ means holding in the hand or hands, or in the arm or arms. No downward pressure is required"

I may rewrite my post...
 
Is it possible to place a ball on the ground without putting downward pressure on it? or is that gravity coming into play?
 
Excellent write up and images.

Have posted to my FB.

Maybe it will go viral (y)
 
Tobers said:
Right, I've edited my blog post and put in a big crop of the ball being grounded. Boom!

Sent it into the picture desks as well....
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But is it on/over the line?

Do you have any shots from further on in the sequence? Because Strettle continued travelling forward after the end of your sequence, with the ball ending up on top of his hand, and then being grounded short of the line by North. I don't think this angle can say definitively, not unless paired with another that shows the point of the grounding is at least on the try line
 
grotty said:
You're quite right, the other video ref angles did though, but obviously they didn't have the benefit of pitch side still photos to refer to. Basically it was a try but (correctly) couldn't be given on the video evidence available, and I suspect most people know this...in my very humble opinion of course.
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Agree, on the evidence available it couldn't be given as Walsh wasn't sure that it wasn't held up. I'm not totally convinced it was grounded over the line though (haven't seen a picture that shows this)
 
Tobers said:
Right, I've edited my blog post and put in a big crop of the ball being grounded. Boom!

Sent it into the picture desks as well....
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May you die horribly, trampled to death by the boots of the Welsh WRFU team! :LOL:
 
Tobers said:
I see white paint behind Jonathan Davies' boot and none this side of the ball, so I'd say so.

Anyhow, it's all a bit academic now. Quality game nonetheless.
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I was looking at that and unfortunately I'd agree with you.

Did anyone else get the angle?
 
Felt it was a try from the off.

Regardless of that a very young England team ran an experienced Welsh team very close & boy did they know it. Gatland's comments at the end about how good his team are were very hollow

Proud to be English

John
 
DemiLion said:
Did anyone else get the angle?
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There are a couple of snappers either side of me (Getty and PA) who have pretty much the same angle but dont seem to have the ball on the ground. Shame I didn't spot this yesterday afternoon!

Let's see what happens tomorrow. I did get a shot in The Star today, so all is not lost.
 
johnb said:
Felt it was a try from the off.

Regardless of that a very young England team ran an experienced Welsh team very close & boy did they know it. Gatland's comments at the end about how good his team are were very hollow

Proud to be English

John
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Why? England were good, much better than in the previous 2 games, but Wales were better - otherwise they would have lost.

As far as experience, the average age of the Welsh starting XV was less than England, although they did have a big advantage in caps. But a number of players in key positions are not yet as experienced as they can look
 
Well I made the Star and Daily Mail, but most of the papers went with Getty shots which is understandable as their chap was next to me. Still, superb game and a pleasure to shoot.
 
Congratulations to Wales on the triple crown.
As for the try/no try ; the ref's decision was no try so that should be the end of discussion.
 
Nod said:
Congratulations to Wales on the triple crown.
As for the try/no try ; the ref's decision was no try so that should be the end of discussion.
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Maybe as far as your concerned, but surely this is fundamental forum fodder?...
 
Interesting behind the scenes for sure. And it was a try. Ball is in contact with the ground and his hand at the same time - its a try.
There's also the fact England at the time were on a penalty advantage earned some 6 seconds previously for a 5th infringement on the line which the ref "forgot" about when he went TMO - after the no-try it should have restarted with England penalty 5m out in front as you cant end the game on a penalty.

Academic now but interesting as in the scotland v england game the Scots also had a good try disallowed via video and then the game ending despite them being on advantage!

These days with so many high quality cameras and people with them meaning countless angles (more so than you'll get from the TV cameras) any slight mistake will be highlighted and debated long after the game is over - there's no hiding any more.

Well done for being in exactly the right place to get that last try/no-try though. Certainly the defining shot of the match as that split second decided the game and the triple crown along with some controversy and you caught it!
 
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