Ethernet or phone cable

ShinySideUp

ShinySideUp

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I'm always trying to maximise my download speeds and shorten my ping for online games so I have a question.

My phone line comes into my house to a box on the wall, let's call this point A. From here I have an extension phone wire which runs upstairs, through the ceiling/floor and thence to another box on the upstairs wall, point B. From point B, yet another phone line runs a short distance to my router, point C and from my router I have a short ethernet cable directly to my PC, point D.

The total length of phone line from point A to the router, point C is about 8 metres, with the modification that distance will become 1 metre.

I can't do anything about the phone line coming into my house but how much difference would it make, if any, if I connected my router by the short phone line directly to point A then ran an ethernet cable from the router straight to point D, my PC? I suspect there would not be a great deal of difference but I have to ask.
 
I can only say what I have... .

Our phone point in the hall where I originally ran like you some phone extension wiring through the ceiling to my office (small bedroom). On the whole it was AOK.

However, we had some electrical work done a few years back and the electrician mentioned this and said if I wanted he could run some "untwisted pair" wiring in its place recommending that that was the bare minimum unless I chose CAT 5 cable. He did so and I put the termination plugs in......though it has been a while IIRC the connection was/is better than the phone extension wiring.

The router is in my office and apart from one PC all other kit is on the WiFi.
 
Length of cable will make no difference, the "signal" travels at just under the speed of light. Quality might make a difference. I have no science behind this, but my choice would be ethernet over phone cable. I would also think any limiting factors will be out side your house, from the phone exchange to your wall socket.

My internet was poor for years until I finally got them to change the cable, they put a dedicated line from my house to the main network junction box, it's run like a dream ever since.
 
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whiteflyer said:
Length of cable will make no difference, the "signal" travels at just under the speed of light. Quality might make a difference. I have no science behind this, but my choice would be ethernet over phone cable. I would also think any limiting factors will be out side your house, from the phone exchange to your wall socket.

My internet was poor for years until I finally got them to change the cable, they put a dedicated line from my house to the main network junction box, it's run like a dream ever since.
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No, not length per se, but if a cable is more prone to interference and losses, then the longer it is the more losses one is going to get.

I think the signal coming to the house is as good as it can be and there is nothing actually wrong with the speed (although over ten years the speed has dropped from 70Mbs to 50Mbs due, I expect, to the increased number of users hereabouts.

I have taken out a new contract for twelve months while waiting for the the new fibre installation in the village to settle down. The company running it are worse than useless in that I couldn't get firm date to complete installation after the fibre cable had been put in place to outside the house, in fact it was almost impossible to get a reply at all. I told them I didn't want to start the contract anymore (they didn't even reply to that) and will wait a year until a more reputable company like BT or Virgin start installations.
 
It is always recommended that connection is made directly to the master socket (Point A?) rather than to an extension, and it sounds like you are going through two extensions.
If it's not mega-hassle I would certainly give it a try as it could be significant.
 
Ethernet.

A quick signal will travel OK on BT cable, but ethernet is designed for it. I don't think the cable will make a *lot* of difference in your setup - the connections and routing round stuff with possible interference is making more difference ATM.

I put various posts up here when I was looking to wire in some sockets. In the end I bought some external grade Cat 7 (I wanted Cat 6 but none was available at the time - the advice here was that I didn't need 7 and 6 is cheaper and easier to work with), some sockets, a wiring tool and (crucially) a test tool. A long as you check the connections, it's pretty easy to wire sockets and then use fly leads from there. On a 6ish metre run I'm getting no measurable loss compared to jacking straight into the Virgin box.

What's your current ping?
 
Been doing this since 1999 when ADSL became a thing... VDSL (aka BT Infinity & the like) is similar but squeezes more out of the line and is more sensitive to noise and the higher frequencies more liable to attenuation hence speed drop off with distance.

Here are the takeouts

1. Have your DSL device at the first socket, so much internal extension cabling is made of the shonkiest quality cable imaginable - run under carpets (and crushed). Turn the weak DSL signal into a strong ethernet signal as close to the exchange as you can.
2. Get rid of any extension cabling if you can (it is just an antenna for interference - acting like a dipole for AM signals - right in the same frequency band that DSL works in)
3. If you can't get rid of the extension cabling - disconnect the ring wire (it was needed for a GPO 740 rotary dial bell ringing phone like my granny had, not for anything more modern) - in this case it's an unbalanced antenna for interference.
4. If you must have extension cabling - rerun it using cabling with a higher number of twists per inch (ie. Cat 6, Cat 5 and not CW1308 telephone or alarm cable)

If you have old phone cabling it's unusual not to recover 1-2Mbps (ADSL) or 5-10 (VDSL)

As mentioned by OP speeds drop because of take-up (principally cross talk on the ancient voice grade twisted pair cables), the other reason is the cable itself degrading over time (particularly joints allowing water ingress) - you can do chuff all about this part.

Edited to add: https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm has quite a bit of info on it - concentrates on ADSL but all applicable
 
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ShinySideUp said:
I suspect there would not be a great deal of difference but I have to ask.
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A run of ethernet should be pretty much invisible but 2 junctions on the DSL might have a small impact.
Simplest thing would be to try a test with the router at point A and run a speed test or two and compare to the current set up.
 
AMcUK said:
A run of ethernet should be pretty much invisible but 2 junctions on the DSL might have a small impact.
Simplest thing would be to try a test with the router at point A and run a speed test or two and compare to the current set up.
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My point really. I know it wouldn't be worse if I moved the router to the house input and an ethernet cable the rest of the way to my PC, it's whether or not it would be worthwhile moving everything in the first place for a small increase in speed and reduction in ping, plus the cost of the ethernet cable itself. I'll probably do it as I keep knocking the router off the top of my bureau almost every time I dust so to have it downstairs and out of the way might be a benefit in itself.
 
ShinySideUp said:
I keep knocking the router off the top of my bureau almost every time I dust so to have it downstairs and out of the way might be a benefit in itself.
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ShinySideUp said:
Usually about 20ms.
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Latency is more important than speed. You're not going to improve on 20ms ping times to game servers either nationally or internationally by removing some extension cables in your house.

As for the speed - 50Mbps to the house is slower than any gigabit connection you have to your router over ethernet, so speed is always a red herring - its the consistency with which you get that speed (latency) that matters for things like gaming.

If you are intent on making adjustments anyway, my recommendation (assuming its convenient) is to move your router closer to your master socket and then ethernet to your machine instead. As with any extension or junction, you generally increase resistance with each connection you make, therefore losing signal strength. So removing any interconnections or patching between your master socket and your router and your router and your machine is going to help.

Having said that - if all the cables are in good condition, and each plug and socket is well terminated and firmly connected, you're not going to notice any appreciable difference in performance. You'd notice more performance issues if you introduced devices between your router and your PC - like a switch, or if you were using wireless, for example.

(I'm new here - but I'm a network engineer :) )
 
Can you get FTTP, this usually means a new master socket, Openreach gave me a choice of where it could be located.
 
Am waiting now as my broadband supplier changes at the end of May so I'm leaving moving the router until then.
 
Supposing the cables are terminated properly at each point, there will be no difference whatsoever.
 
Absolutely untrue - the higher twists per inch of Cat5/5E/6/6a over CW1308 (telephone cable) will cancel interference - it's marginal but demonstrable.

Also there are many of even older installs out there done in GPO days with non-twisted bell wire
 
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