Eurasian Lynx Project

[JohnC6]

The project to reintroduce the Eurasian Lynx into the Kielder Forest,Northumberland, to keep the population of deer in check hit the buffers for the time being as Environment Secretary, Thérèsa Coffey has said there's plenty of other other initiatives to be getting on with without worrying sheep farmers about attacks on their livestock. They also eat red foxes, hares, rabbits, rodents, and birds. She's also said that there will be no reintroduction of wolves to England,either.The proponents of the reintroduction have said that lynx ,generally, keep within forested areas and don't venture out into surrounding fields.

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news...érèse,to successfully restore the environment.

March 31st... A collaborative study from the University of Exeter and Vincent Wildlife Trust investigates stakeholder opinions of lynx reintroduction in Scotland. Lead author David Bavin (Vincent Wildlife Trust) explained “Our results show that Scottish views about the lynx reintroduction are far more nuanced than we assumed.” As opposed to a binary ‘yes or no’ split, the researchers received a wide spectrum of responses.

Lynx reintroduction in Scotland evokes mixed opinions - British Ecological Society

A new study explores stakeholder opinions of lynx reintroduction in Scotland, which reveals important areas of disagreement on the topic

www.britishecologicalsociety.org

 

[SFTPhotography]

Hopefully this madness will stop and lynx, wolves, bears will be kept away from British shores. If the wokerati want them, fine, then we want guns and complete freedom to step traps/hunt them to protect ourselves, property and livestock from them.

 

[Tringa]

I think the dangers to humans of these three animals are very different.

Lynx - from what I've read the chances of been attacked by a lynx are close to zero. I don't think there have been any recorded attacks and the chance of even seeing a lynx would be low.

Wolf - there have been attacks but in very low numbers. Here - https://wolf.org/wolf-info/factsvsfiction/are-wolves-dangerous-to-humans/ says 26 fatal attacks in 18 years

Bears - again relatively low, 48 fatal attacks in north America between 200 and 2017 - https://www.alaskasnewssource.com/c...-Bear-Attacks-in-North-America-432734333.html

I think a factor that could increase the chances of a bear attack if they were re-introduced here would be the behaviour of humans. Living in a country without bears means we lack the knowledge of how to behave - eg don't leave food near your campsite, secure food in bear proof containers(in some national park in the USA you are required to do so while camping), not surprising a bear by making your presence know.

However, I don't think bears or wolves will ever be re-introduced in the UK, not because of possible attacks on humans(though this would be very low for wolves) but because the available land area just isn't, IMO, large enough. For example wolves were re-introuduced to Yellowstone National Park in the 1990s; the park is close to 9,000 sq km(ie about 50 times the size of Glasgow).

The is also the issue of the impact on livestock. The data I have seen from the USA suggest low impact but a study from a very large area would not necessarily be applicable to a much smaller area.

The lynx is a more likely re-introduction with the almost zero danger to humans, the potential for control of deer, though I have heard that is more likely on roe deer than red deer, which are also in very high numbersm,especially in Scotland. There would be concern from farmers and we could not know the true impact unless we tried it.

Dave

 

[Cobra]

Curiously deer kill more people in the USA than any other animal :-
Deer -- not bears, bees, sharks or scorpions -- are the animal that kills the most Americans. However, the deaths aren't because of vicious Bambi attacks -- most of the fatalities are a result of car accidents.
These furry mammals are responsible for an estimated 120 deaths a year, usually due to car crashes rather than attacks

 

[sphexx]

I can’t see many problems with lynx introduction.

On wolves. In Yellowstone I believe many of the benefits to the ecosystem came from causing dear to move about more thus allowing vegetation to recover. This effect could probably be achieved in UK by employing the domesticated indigenous wolves

 

[LCPete]

Real shame Coffey has given way to the farming lobby and it’s illogical anyway as Lynx will stay well away from humans and sheep farms will be in a different area

 

[Box Brownie]

So much for the government being nature friendly?

The Lynx, as already said, is secretive and wary of humans. Therefore in places where livestock might be considered at risk, where the (potential?) killing of a lamb can be proven to be.......the government can put in place a compensation scheme.

The wider picture always needs to be seen and factored in!

 

[SFTPhotography]

Real shame Coffey has given way to the farming lobby and it’s illogical anyway as Lynx will stay well away from humans and sheep farms will be in a different area

Farming keeps us fed. They are an important lobby.

 

[woof woof]

Wolf - there have been attacks but in very low numbers. Here - https://wolf.org/wolf-info/factsvsfiction/are-wolves-dangerous-to-humans/ says 26 fatal attacks in 18 years

Bears - again relatively low, 48 fatal attacks in north America between 200 and 2017 - https://www.alaskasnewssource.com/c...-Bear-Attacks-in-North-America-432734333.html

Dave

Small numbers matter if it's your child. And what a way to die.

I'm against this reintroduction. I just can not see any real justification for it.

 

[Craikeybaby]

Farming keeps us fed. They are an important lobby.

I think it is odd that the government choose to listen to farmers on this, but completely ignore them on other matters e.g. how they are being incentivised to not grow food at the moment. I expect it is wealthy owners of shooting estates that have the ear of the government, rather than farmers.

I was reading this article earlier, https://eu.patagonia.com/gb/en/stories/in-the-tracks-of-wolves/story-136397.html and it seems that even in the Alps, where there is more space than on our little island, there are conflicts between farmers and wolves.

 

[Nod]

Small numbers matter if it's your child. And what a way to die.

I'm against this reintroduction. I just can not see any real justification for it.

And using the American model, how safe are schools?

 

[woof woof]

And using the American model, how safe are schools?

Nod. Don't you think that's a bit... how to say this without being banned... Silly? To put it mildly?

We've had school atrocities in the UK but I don't see a link between these acts by disturbed/evil humans and deliberately introducing predatory animals capable of maiming or killing a human into the UK.

That's me out of this. Just trying to add some common sense here but if we're at the level of introducing school shooting in the USA into this I'm well out of it. Baffled by the deployed argument but well out.

 

[GordonM]

There was me thinking this was a photography forum?

 

[Nod]

In areas where Lynx still exist naturally, people spend weeks looking for them and are lucky to spot a footprint.

My point about American schools is that in a country where there are plenty of deadly predators, Man (or even child) is by far the most dangerous to themselves.

 

[Cobra]

There was me thinking this was a photography forum?

This is listed under talk nature, one of many "talk" subjects from the section.

 

[SFTPhotography]

In areas where Lynx still exist naturally, people spend weeks looking for them and are lucky to spot a footprint.

My point about American schools is that in a country where there are plenty of deadly predators, Man (or even child) is by far the most dangerous to themselves.

If the US government had spent the money it has given to Ukraine on security guards in the schools, these shootings would have been stopped. The problem isn't the guns, it's the government wasting their money on defending foreigners rather than their own.

How you equate this area to reintroducing bears to the UK beats me, but this is TP.

Co-incidentally - I am going to have my own peak TP moment - how many children in the UK have died from lethal dog attacks since the Dumblane shooting. It has to be double digits by now, but we aren't on about banning dogs are we?

 

[Nod]

Never mentioned bears.

 

[SFTPhotography]

So much for the government being nature friendly?

The Lynx, as already said, is secretive and wary of humans. Therefore in places where livestock might be considered at risk, where the (potential?) killing of a lamb can be proven to be.......the government can put in place a compensation scheme.

The wider picture always needs to be seen and factored in!

Ok - what wider good comes from lynx, dead livestock and the UK tax payer compensating farmers for the odd dead sheep. Surely it is easier to just not bother with them (we've managed fine for 100s of years without them), let the field sport guys shoot the deer and enjoy the venison etc you can get from them

 

[GordonM]

This is listed under talk nature, one of many "talk" subjects from the section.

I appreciate that, discussion about government ministers and school shootings in the US hardly qualify? I'll stop now before I become unpopular...

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Lets just put this to bed brit wildlife is not managing fine there is no way to dress that. We live in one of the most denuded ecosystems on the planet, period

Very very few species are doing extremely well here one of those genera that are, are deer
We have 6 species of deer here
4 are not native
none of them have a natural predator.

Lynx will full fill a role.................. a role that should be their birth right..... is their birthright as much as me or you or any of us.

Yes there will be fall out some little guys that farm, that live with livestock will need help. That said no one helped me when years of work went in the bin due to the red fox, but then I did not ask for help just wept and still adore and respect red fox.

Lynx will go unseen be who they are quiet and leathel

No human marksman is perfect there is and always will be fall out, that will never happen with lynx........... Lynx kill or don't . tis one or t'other there are no in betweens, it is what mum nature intended

wolf and bear are a whole other , so few of us have a skillset to deal with them and we as an isle are too small and too densely populated to deal with them


But lynx don't harm us find me a recorded case of that

So would we humans be better for lynx here, most of us yes as a wiildlife image maker wouldn't a british lynx image made here in blighty be sort of the ultimate in field craft. patience etc etc.that vast majority of our populous would have no clue anyways

Ecosystems need all parts to thrive they need the top guy the apex predator

Look lets not do this inane brit tax payer BS there is enough dosh for compensation for a brit lynx , we would just rather pay an oil baron or a water sharholder than have a clean river or fair trade energy. I could properly go on on this one.

But won't I'll start screaming


I'm gonna stop there I will say it's a shame so many worry on comments. we are diverse we should take on board each others words and points of view.

there is nowt wrong with the other guy being wrong is there?

Peace and love

stu

 

[sphexx]

Lets just put this to bed brit wildlife is not managing fine there is no way to dress that. We live in one of the most denuded ecosystems on the planet, period

Very very few species are doing extremely well here one of those genera that are, are deer
We have 6 species of deer here
4 are not native
none of them have a natural predator.

Lynx will full fill a role.................. a role that should be their birth right..... is their birthright as much as me or you or any of us.

Yes there will be fall out some little guys that farm, that live with livestock will need help. That said no one helped me when years of work went in the bin due to the red fox, but then I did not ask for help just wept and still adore and respect red fox.

Lynx will go unseen be who they are quiet and leathel

No human marksman is perfect there is and always will be fall out, that will never happen with lynx........... Lynx kill or don't . tis one or t'other there are no in betweens, it is what mum nature intended

wolf and bear are a whole other , so few of us have a skillset to deal with them and we as an isle are too small and too densely populated to deal with them


But lynx don't harm us find me a recorded case of that

So would we humans be better for lynx here, most of us yes as a wiildlife image maker wouldn't a british lynx image made here in blighty be sort of the ultimate in field craft. patience etc etc.that vast majority of our populous would have no clue anyways

Ecosystems need all parts to thrive they need the top guy the apex predator

Look lets not do this inane brit tax payer BS there is enough dosh for compensation for a brit lynx , we would just rather pay an oil baron or a water sharholder than have a clean river or fair trade energy. I could properly go on on this one.

But won't I'll start screaming


I'm gonna stop there I will say it's a shame so many worry on comments. we are diverse we should take on board each others words and points of view.

there is nowt wrong with the other guy being wrong is there?

Peace and love

stu

All the above plus:

Scotland's wildcat on brink of extinction - research

NatureScot warned there are likely too few pure-bred Scottish wildcats for the population to be viable.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[dragonfly]

The only photographer I know of that has successfully documented wild Eurasian Lynx, by which I don't mean chance encounter, is Laurant Geslin. That took him years. I understand the concerns, but I would suggest that they are mostly based on ignorance. They are the ghost of the forest. They are of no threat to humans and sheep are not their preferred diet.

Predators have always been feared and persecuted, often to extinction. In the UK, all the top predators have been wiped out. Even the smaller ones like badgers and foxes are 'managed'. Predators serve an important function in our ecosystem. Without them, nature loses its balance. There is enough information - tv documentaries, textbooks etc., that unequivocally support this.

I agree with Stu that wolves and bears are probably no longer possible for reintroduction on this small island. Personally, I cannot see Lynx being a problem.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

All the above plus:

Scotland's wildcat on brink of extinction - research

NatureScot warned there are likely too few pure-bred Scottish wildcats for the population to be viable.

www.bbc.co.uk

Rich ya good bro? ...mate trust me I would adore to see scot wild cat pure and free being what they are and what they were made to be. But I can't see a way around the hybridization issue.

It's not that I don't want the parties to succeed mate I just can't fathom the hows of it, with , domestic cats being so numerous. The propensity for hybrid surely has to always be there?

The only photographer I know of that has successfully documented wild Eurasian Lynx, by which I don't mean chance encounter, is Laurant Geslin. That took him years. I understand the concerns, but I would suggest that they are mostly based on ignorance. They are the ghost of the forest. They are of no threat to humans and sheep are not their preferred diet.

Predators have always been feared and persecuted, often to extinction. In the UK, all the top predators have been wiped out. Even the smaller ones like badgers and foxes are 'managed'. Predators serve an important function in our ecosystem. Without them, nature loses its balance. There is enough information - tv documentaries, textbooks etc., that unequivocally support this.

I agree with Stu that wolves and bears are probably no longer possible for reintroduction on this small island. Personally, I cannot see Lynx being a problem.

Des, in a nut shell mate we fear what we don't know.it is ignorance, but to me it isn't based on malice it's fear based on not knowing not understanding.its not pig ignorant is just plain and simple fear .that's why folks kill adders.

somehow we have to try and allay those fears and educate.lol me Des as a teacher thats funny huh? But it is that somehow we have to try and dispell the irrational fears many of us have.

Honestly if we brought lynx back it would probably take decades to find that ecological balance.lynx would possibly also predate other species one would not want them to because our ecosystem is so out of kilter they too are threatened...tis complex

but too me we have to try and to some way restore that balance to what surrounds us.

 

[dragonfly]

Des, in a nut shell mate we fear what we don't know.it is ignorance, but to me it isn't based on malice it's fear based on not knowing not understanding.its not pig ignorant is just plain and simple fear .that's why folks kill adders.

somehow we have to try and allay those fears and educate.lol me Des as a teacher thats funny huh? But it is that somehow we have to try and dispell the irrational fears many of us have.

Honestly if we brought lynx back it would probably take decades to find that ecological balance.lynx would possibly also predate other species one would not want them to because our ecosystem is so out of kilter they too are threatened...tis complex

but too me we have to try and to some way restore that balance to what surrounds us.

I too believe that it's mostly to do with lack of understanding rather than ill intentions.

I agree also it will take years for any of the benefits to be realised but we have to start somewhere. If Yellowstone didn't bring back the wolves in the 90's then it would have been a very different place now.