Every Tom, Dick, Harry and their dog...

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Digifrog

Digifrog

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... are advertising that they are running workshops these days. Even those that arent that good. I doubt even they get much response but like to give the impression that thet they're worth it. This is fine but I don't know. Is it just me? It just smacks of complete pretentiousness.

Rant over. As you were.
 
Dunno, never been to a workshop and don't think I'll ever feel the need to.
 
I dont get the point of workshops. Why pay someone extra money to show you around? I dont get it.
 
It's mostly just people trying to find a way to earn a living.

The market will decide if they are successful or not.
 
Are they not already earning a living? I'm sure they already have careers.
 
One of my greatest "Road to Damascus" moments came when I noticed how many people were trying to sell workshops/training courses to me using images that I would embarrassed to put my name to. That was when I truly realised that anyone can try to pass themselves off as an expert and that there is virtually no correlation between ability and success. As the market for commercial photographers continues to shrink, I think it's only natural that more and more people who hope to make a living solely from photography will turn to things like offering workshops and training to boost their income. As with anything else "let the buyer beware".
 
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I've only been on one workshop, a digital monochrome one last year. Best £250 I've spent on photography. Completely changed my workflow, introduced me to new tools and new ideas and applying what I've learnt since has seen a step change in my photography.

Everyone learns differently. Some people can read a book and go out and apply it. Others can watch Youtube videos and get it straight away. Others respond best to having someone next to them explaining things over a short period of time - it can reduce the learning curve considerably.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are some chancers out there. I saw an advert for some landscape workshop in a magazine last year that featured one of the worst examples of tonemapping / HDR I've ever seen and was amazed that people would think 'Hells teeth that is amazing, I must get on his workshop and find out how he does such witchcraft', but each to their own.
 
Though not specifically photography perhaps the old saying can apply in some of these situations?

'Those that can, do. Those that cannot, teach (the subject)'
 
Digifrog said:
I dont get the point of workshops. Why pay someone extra money to show you around? I dont get it.
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I did a workshop for almost entirely that reason ... it was a trip to Skomer Island for the Puffins.
It meant I had someone to show me where to go to get the best shots, saved me the bother of queuing for tickets for the trip across (and possibly not getting one!) and enabled me to get 1st boat over and last boat back, hence more time on the island.
For me, it was well worth the small charge for tagging along with the workshop.
 
saying all workshops are crap is a bit likely saying you can never learn from someone else. You are either very very good or very very deluded if that is your view.

sure some are probably crap, but then that is true of lots of teaching. Some on the other had are going to be excellent. Just like lots of teaching......
 
gramps said:
I did a workshop for almost entirely that reason ... it was a trip to Skomer Island for the Puffins.
It meant I had someone to show me where to go to get the best shots, saved me the bother of queuing for tickets for the trip across (and possibly not getting one!) and enabled me to get 1st boat over and last boat back, hence more time on the island.
For me, it was well worth the small charge for tagging along with the workshop.
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Hmm! I read workshops as in a mix of "show & tell" and tutorial education type. But the sort where it is restricted access and/or where local guiding knowledge is paramount then that is IMO if you can justify the cost very worthwhile....... I have done a few like that over the years in regard to wildlife.

Having said that, if the former and the organisor has a good track record in the subject or genre plus has positive reviews for what they impart then again if you can justify the cost and need to learn that specific subject then on those caveats good to go!

But without such fine tuned insight into the supplier yes, my earlier post applies ;) :)
 
I don't think you have to be a great photographer in in order to be a great trainer or coach, but it helps. As long as that person can explain ideas and concepts that an attendee goes away with an understanding and having learnt something then I see no issue.
 
Errr I do workshops :(

I've also been on MANY and learned something from every one I've ever been on

If you think you don't need help - you're wrong - the instant I don't feel I can learn from anyone's workshop is the day I need to find a new hobby/business

The "Those that can, do, those that can't, teach" is b****x

Many that 'can' earn sod all, if they can teach then that's great. There is a HUGE difference between being a great photographer and earning from being a great photographer

More than one of the Pro bodies has more than one on its judging committee that can't shoot for s**t but are good teachers, and I know some superb togs who can't explain what they do at all - teaching is an art in itself - thankfully I can teach

What many forget is that many who want help picked up a camera yesterday and know nothing at all, most keen togs on TP could teach them something useful without even thinking of themselves as teachers. If you are already competent then chances are you want a different level of info and if a workshop doesn't deliver you'd think it was crap, most likely it was simply not right for you

I was once asked to do an evening's presentation on OCF for a camera club - no probs says I, I do it all the time, its simple - then I started to write down the basics and got to 37 points you need to know to do it right and I thought - how the fk can I teach that in an hour !!! I've seen people offer OCF workshops that take a day and tbh that's more like what many will need to grasp the basics of it

Pitching any course is hard, being upset that it wasn't at the level you wanted is easy

Try to teach one - then comment :)

Dave
 
It's true that probably is some poor workshop around but they will be some awesome one too. A bit like everything in life, builders, mechanics, doctors, police officer, forum members ;-)....

For example i'd love to do a darkroom printing workshop some day, the kind of stuff which is hard to get started on your own as it required space and equipment. I'm sure for portrait/use of flash it's the same, seem like hard to get in by yourself.

Then workshop can be divided for beginner, advance, pro, everyone can learn something from someone else. Seems like nowadays everyone think they know/learn everything just by watching google/youtube but let's be honest if i had the time and the money i'd love to assist some workshop run by great professionals. Or let's just scrap all face to face learning, why bother with schools and university let's our kid learning everything on youtube on their tablet...

Edit: Sorry missed a bit the point of your original thread which is more is any crappy person is running a workshop nowaday... I don't know but as an enthusiast photographer it's easier to feel that 90% of the photography out there is not that good, and you could do better. Same goes with pro photographer. My girlfriend had her graduation picture taken by the local pro photographer and when i saw them i was really shocked. They use 5d mark iii with L lens but the picture where wonky, the highlight blowned by direct flash, the hand cut half way, the background not well selected... So to extend your question is any bad photographer can call himself a pro!
 
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DG Phototraining said:
The "Those that can, do, those that can't, teach" is b****x
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Assuming they do actually do as well as teach. Many don't. Many I've met and seen only actually shoot to generate material for their course website only.

There's also apart from the above absurd idiom that Dave refers to, those that think there's something wrong with wanting to teach photography.

It's all nonsense. There's a great deal of reward to be had from teaching people, especially a good course that expands creativity as well as just teaching technical skills.

I agree with the OP to an extent though. SO many courses are run by people who aren't really photographers, and by people who never really produce any work... some of them on here... relax Dave.. not talking about you :) I've never really paid much attention to what your courses deliver, but regardless, I know you do actually work as a photographer, and produce work.

Like anything... there's good, and there's bad.

Photography is perceived to be easy, and the fact is... swift, apparent gains CAN be made quite quickly, but it's usually through processing crap rather than genuine photographic skill. I'm starting to get annoyed at the amount of average photography that relies on processing to be effective these days. It fools the gullible public, but anyone who's used to seeing (and wanting to see) better it's just immensely frustrating.
 
As far as I can recall, I've only been on one workshop, and that was last year. One day only, and I thought it was worthwhile.
 
My take on workshops is that they are there to help people improve on their photography with the help and guidance to capture a subject of their interest in order to master the cameras settings etc. That is the type of workshops I offer myself and regularly run, Its always a rewarding feeling imho when someone goes away from the day with a big smile on their face, happy that they have learn't what they aimed to from the session or just feel alot more confident with what they have learn't and doing with their camera in the field, don't get me wrong I'm not a full time professional only Semi-Professional as I'm still at College but I get a good amount of bookings that takes up my weekends and free time that produces a good income for me, Funny enough recently I just had a One 2 One Workshop with another TP member that was very pleased, So much so he has now booked again with me twice.
 
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I've been on many workshops for all different art related activities from contemporary calligraphy to screenprinting to etching this year alone. Loved every one of them and learnt loads from them. And met some very interesting people and enjoyed their company. The workshops have all been led by practitioners of the subject who were all able to clearly communicate the methods. And their love and passion for their subject was clearly evident in all cases.

I'm planning on signing up for a wet plate collodion workshop soon and a printmaking one next year.

Anyone who thinks they know it all and wouldn't benefit from some training is either an arrogant fool or under achieving in a comfort zone and not stretching themselves.

There may be some dodgy courses about, but just do some research before signing up.
 
There seem as usual to be quite a few around on here ready to put down something they have never tried.
I have been on quite a few workshops, some landscape, some fine art, a couple of wildlife one to one's and a couple of commercial.
As with anything some you take away more than others, but everyone has been an enjoyable experience. Some of these have been over several days and I have met some truly inspiring and highly experienced and respected
photographers as other participants and it was good to see how they work and to socialise with your peers.

When considering a workshop with somebody I don't know I always spend plenty of time researching the individual and looking for reviews and opinions before booking.

As far as Tom Dick and Harry are concerned there is more to running workshops than adding a page to your website.
 
Joeturner11 said:
My take on workshops is that they are there to help people improve on their photography with the help and guidance to capture a subject of their interest in order to master the cameras settings etc. That is the type of workshops I offer myself and regularly run, Its always a rewarding feeling imho when someone goes away from the day with a big smile on their face, happy that they have learn't what they aimed to from the session or just feel alot more confident with what they have learn't and doing with their camera in the field, don't get me wrong I'm not a full time professional only Semi-Professional as I'm still at College but I get a good amount of bookings that takes up my weekends and free time that produces a good income for me, Funny enough recently I just had a One 2 One Workshop with another TP member that was very pleased, So much so he has now booked again with me twice.
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You've met BRASH Joe....................now you didn't tell me that ...:):exit:
 
The only way you'll ever now if a course of any kind is good or bad is ask others who've been on it, or just take part and find out.

Logic would dictate that there are bound to be terrible workshops, and really great ones.

Pick the one you're interested in, post on here for opinions would be the best advice I think.
 
den said:
You've met BRASH Joe....................now you didn't tell me that ...:):exit:
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No he hasn't and neither have you. You'll know about it if either of you ever do.
 
I do apologise if my comment offended you, it was a joke based on you saying you don't think you would ever need a workshop, of course I it was a sly dig but I've have been on many a dig from yourself, if you can't take it don't give it,now for the serious matter regarding your threat by all means threaten me but not Joe,nothing to do with him. I made the comment and I can look after myself but you've crossed the line with the threat I won't add any more as your comment speaks for itself
 
Joeturner11 said:
ROFL :D:D:D Wow...take that is suppose to be a threat? Grow up. :)
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No it wasn't intended as a threat at all. I've never (seriously) threatened anyone on here and don't intend to.

I'll explain my comment. Because of the type of character I am I tend to leave an impression of one sort or another, therefore people who I've me tend to know they've met me. Simple as that really. Perhaps it was your immaturity that caused you to jump the gun and interpret it as a threat.
 
den said:
I do apologise if my comment offended you, it was a joke based on you saying you don't think you would ever need a workshop, of course I it was a sly dig but I've have been on many a dig from yourself, if you can't take it don't give it,now for the serious matter regarding your threat by all means threaten me but not Joe,nothing to do with him. I made the comment and I can look after myself but you've crossed the line with the threat I won't add any more as your comment speaks for itself
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See above!!
 
I've been meaning to get on one of Jack Russell's workshops. A friend has been on one and highly rates it. For £160 for the day with tutoring seems a bargain when you get 2 models all the lighting make up artist etc etc etc.
 
I would love to know about any workshops in Cornwall - ideally someone good, but as DG Phototraining says in post 14 there has to be something to learn from anyone, even if it is mainly reassurance that I am not utterly rubbish !
 
BRASH said:
Perhaps it was your immaturity that caused you to jump the gun and interpret it as a threat.
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As I've said before not everyone "gets" your sense of humour, and that was borne out by the amount of people that hit the RTM button, and many have not even posted in this thread.
 
Cobra said:
As I've said before not everyone "gets" your sense of humour, and that was borne out by the amount of people that hit the RTM button, and many have not even posted in this thread.
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It wasn't an attempt at humour, had it been I'd have posted a smiley. It was statement of fact.
 
Joeturner11 said:
Immaturity when you make comments like that? Specially after the large digs on the forums aimed towards Den mainly...Whatever. :rolleyes:[:meh: :indifferent:/QUOTE]


Indeed, whatever.:meh: :indifferent::rolleyes:
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Well, you eyes and opinion were wrong. Had I been in your shoes and that's what you though, I'd have asked for clarification before sounding off.
 
I've been on a few wildlife related workshops/guided days/holidays. Primarily I'm interested in them to learn species specific field-craft. Of course some have been rather more useful than others. Additionally, normally I'm out in the field by myself, and it's nice to occasionally gather with like-minds.
 
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