Expensive Mistake

Lensflare

Lensflare

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Simon Everett
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Last year I had a pretty nasty crash on the M40 on my motorbike. A bloke driving while on his mobile phone caused the chain reaction, which side swiped me and put me on the deck in front of a big merc jeepy thing coming up the outside lane at speed. I didn't think I would be able to handle a D4s and lenses again, so bought into the Fuji system with an XT2, motordrive grip and a couple of their top zoom lenses. After struggling to get to grips with it, the hcange in handling, the change in focussing methods and failing to get anythig decent shot wise on a regular basis I gave up with it. The lenses sold quickly and for 'reasonable' money, but were a substantial loss. The XT2 body and motordrive grip were a total disaster - I paid £1180 for them new. I got the sale slip through, £378.... the body had done fewer than 2000 shots.

Oh well, one lives and learns. On the upside, I can use the D4s and the lenses I need to - oh, and putting the two side by side there isn't actually that much difference in size. Not enough to lose 50p per shutter firing on! How do I know they are near enough the same size? I can put the D4s and the two full frame equivalent lenses and an SB900 in the same bag that the XT2 kit went in.
 
Lensflare may I ask what kind of photography you do ? I take it your professional .
 
Did I read it wrong or did you sell the x-t2 for £378? If so, that is madness. Even now the used ones are selling for about £600.

Both cameras may fit in the same bag but even with the battery grip the xt2 is considerably smaller than the d4s, and certainly lighter.

Screenshot_20181222_200709.jpg
 
Didn't you have this up for sale on a commission basis with a shop?
Surely they didn't sell it for such a ridiculously low price
 
Sorry to hear of your misfortune.

When I gave Fuji a try, I bought into it 'used' - an XE2, 23/1.4 & 56/1.2 - I think I lost about £100 or so after I sold it all on & went back to the A7. The A7 of which I bought 'used' in 2014/15 whilst I was a 5D2 shooter because I wanted to try Sony ;)

I know the XT3 has recently came out but that's still a crazy low price for the XT2!!
 
What was limiting about the XT2? I'm curious, as it's produced fantastic results for many photographers, pros inc.

As for size, you're having a laugh saying the XT2 and a couple of lenses takes up the same room/size/weight as a D4 and lenses. I'm not sure what the point of this thread is tbh is it a Nikon fanboy thing? A diss Fuji thing? or what?
 
Cagey75 said:
What was limiting about the XT2? I'm curious, as it's produced fantastic results for many photographers, pros inc.

As for size, you're having a laugh saying the XT2 and a couple of lenses takes up the same room/size/weight as a D4 and lenses. I'm not sure what the point of this thread is tbh is it a Nikon fanboy thing? A diss Fuji thing? or what?
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He is just sharing his frustration; I doubt that he intended either of your rather grumpy suggestions... Mike Inkley, Oly Ambassador, had to change systems [from Canon] when he was hit by a car. Fortunately, he got on with that system and still has a career.
 
For some people how the camera operates is more important than the quality of the files it produces. This may be down to habit and being used to a particular camera, but if it's how you make your living that is important.

On the other hand it's good that there's choice.
 
Lensflare said:
The XT2 body and motordrive grip were a total disaster - I paid £1180 for them new. I got the sale slip through, £378
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Assuming I am correct in thinking you sold to someone like MPB, the expensive mistake was not selling it private. I sold a XT-1 for that and it sold almost instantly
 
Caerus said:
Assuming I am correct in thinking you sold to someone like MPB, the expensive mistake was not selling it private. I sold a XT-1 for that and it sold almost instantly
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I recall this being posted by the OP, sure he said on a commission basis
"Cambrian Cameras have my Fuji XT2 and motordrive to sell for me. Please direct all questions to them - barely used because my computer wasn't (still isn't) man enough for such a modern camera! "
 
tijuana taxi said:
I recall this being posted by the OP, sure he said on a commission basis
"Cambrian Cameras have my Fuji XT2 and motordrive to sell for me. Please direct all questions to them - barely used because my computer wasn't (still isn't) man enough for such a modern camera! "
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Yes sorry to be a nasty grump at xmas but it is self inflicted losses. Should have had £670 - £700+ in his pocket
 
It#s a shame about the poor resale on the Fuji but what a cracking camera he is using now - the Nikon D4s is an incredible tool!
 
Lensflare had quite a trying time with his Fuji's, I recall the saga in the XT-x thread.
If anyone is interested, read forward from here:
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...0-owners-thread.527428/page-1013#post-8196294

I can't help thinking (in retrospect) that one of the issues was firmware related - the lockups - as mine was fine on 2.whatever firmware, had lockups on 3.x and was cured by the 4.20 firmware.
That doesn't explain all the other issues he had though, and I don't blame him wanting to switch back to something he knew well.

If there is a moral to this story, I guess it would be:
If you're thinking of switching systems, consider renting first...
 
I’m hoping the bloke on the mobile phone got royally reamed.
 
Cambrian cameras have a load of used X-T2’s for sale all above £600. I think they have sold it for that price and your other item and taken 50% for themselves. There’s no way they sold your stuff anywhere near the price stated above.

They sound pretty unethical so I will make sure I don’t use them.
 
Chipper said:
He is just sharing his frustration; I doubt that he intended either of your rather grumpy suggestions... Mike Inkley, Oly Ambassador, had to change systems [from Canon] when he was hit by a car. Fortunately, he got on with that system and still has a career.
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HUMBUG!! .. ok, it may have been a little grumpy, but it was also a bit head scratching as I couldn't see much point to it. If he'd sold it on the open used market he would have got twice as much, and the size comparison is exaggerated.

No more grumpiness here, I start to mellow out on Christmas eve, eve :D so Merry Christmas OP - how's that? ;)
 
wack61 said:
If you think that's an expensive mistake you've never owned a Maserati , I did, now that's an expensive mistake
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Or Jaguar
 
Tom Green said:
Cambrian cameras have a load of used X-T2’s for sale all above £600. I think they have sold it for that price and your other item and taken 50% for themselves. There’s no way they sold your stuff anywhere near the price stated above.

They sound pretty unethical so I will make sure I don’t use them.
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Tom, Posts like this based on internet hearsay I find really annoying.

Cambrian Cameras are one of the nicest genuine camera shops that you could come across, staffed by people who know what they are talking about. If you choose not to use them then that's your choice.

And please don't describe them as unethical when you are quite happy to buy from Panamoz evading paying VAT, they are a business and one that I would certainly trust. We don't know the full story, as its not been posted by the OP.

And I'd add Audi A8's to that list of automotive big mistakes.
 
tijuana taxi said:
Didn't you have this up for sale on a commission basis with a shop?
Surely they didn't sell it for such a ridiculously low price
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£500 body and motordrive. Then took their commission out of it.

i tried selling it privately - on here for one. Wasasking £800 the pair - never had even an enquirey or offer.
 
Cagey75 said:
HUMBUG!! .. ok, it may have been a little grumpy, but it was also a bit head scratching as I couldn't see much point to it. If he'd sold it on the open used market he would have got twice as much, and the size comparison is exaggerated.

No more grumpiness here, I start to mellow out on Christmas eve, eve :D so Merry Christmas OP - how's that? ;)
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You are SO wrong. I couldn't get ANY interest in the XT2 and motordrive at all. So gave it back to the shop to sel because they are a big Fuji outlet and have loads of customers looking for stuff. A barely used XT2 and drive you would have thought would have been a tempting saving on a new one...not a sniff. I was prepared to let someone on here have it much cheaper than a shop, but I never even got an enquiry.

As for the size - pictures with dimensuions are all well good. Do it for real, putting them in a bag - not very much in it. I do know about sizes because I travel by motorbike and it has to fit in my pannier. There is less actual difference than made out by marketing hype - in the real world my Nikon outfit doesn't take up any more space than the Fuji system did. IT ALL FITS IN THE SAME BAG I HAD THE FUJI CRAMMED INTO! It was crammed too, so is the Nikon, but the zip still does up - so it is only how much the fabric stretches!
 
Anyway - I am glad to see the back of the heap of s***e. That is achapter of my life I can now put to bed.
 
Did you try anywhere like Ffordes Photographic as £500 for the camera and grip is crazy low?
 
I'm struggling to get my head around letting an X-T2 go for £378. In fact I can't even process it. Even CEX will give £435 for a used one and that's borderline criminal as it is.
 
Guys - there's no use in chewing over the selling price of the camera: what's gone is gone, and as the OP says, he put them up for sale on here and had not a single enquiry.

Sometimes it's best just to use stuff that works, but I'm astonished at how poor the Fujis were for the OP.
 
Damo1 said:
Lensflare may I ask what kind of photography you do ? I take it your professional .
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Yes - but I had to wind up the business last July because I couldn't fulfill any commitments while I lay in a hospital bed and then at home on the sofa for 5 months while I recovered. I couldn't sleep lying down or get upstairs. Hence sleeping sat up in short bursts on the sofa - which is why I feared not being able to use a big camera again. I am now beginning to get movement and strength back in my right arm (shoulder) but putting an empty coffee mug back on the shelf is a left handed job still.

I gave it several weeks on here, but never had an offer, no interest whatsoever - the lenses I sold on here very quickly. Half the problem was the launch of the new body just as I was selling up. Nobody wanted an XT2, they all wanted the XT3 or XH1 or whatever it is.....Fuji resale value is not great. The files I managed to get manual focussing were pretty good. The 2 main zooms I had were the 16-55 and 50-140 with a 1.4x and just the tiddly flash That comes with the body (which I didn't know about until the box arrived) - it was fine for fill in jobs, but limited by range. Not having remote flash was a big hurdle too.

I am virtually retired now, due to losing my slots that I had had for years. I get the odd scraps now and then but that is all. I have fixed myself up with another D4s, 16-35, 24-70, 70-200 and 300f4p with 3x speedlights and a remote manager SU800. It is as much as I need. The real moral of the story is 'don't get sucked in by hype and marketing material'. I had been with Nikon since 1981 and generally my bodies last 10+ years. The D4s kit I lost in the crash would have seen me out. To be honest the D3 probably would have. One thing I have learned from this is that the loss of money is far outweighed by the peace of mind of not having the fight with the gear I was doing. With the Nikon, everything just works - and I haven't had to upgrade my computer or buy into new editing programmes. Neither will I - 'subscription' programs are just a con and everyone who 'buys' into them is being milked. I ain't no cash cow anymore!
 
Lensflare said:
The real moral of the story is 'don't get sucked in by hype and marketing material'.
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Quick chaps... Simon has sussed out that all the excellent pics on the Fuji thread are actually fakes we took with Nikons and amended the exif. Time to make our escape! ;)
Ah, no... I feel that actually the Fuji pics might be taken with Fuji Cameras and aren't re-posted marketing shots etc. They can and do take bloody good shots.

Seriously though. Like I said earlier. If you're entrenched in an existing system, but are looking to change systems (for whatever reason), then perhaps hiring for a short time, to see if it gels, is the best approach.
I looked on Stewart's site and 5 days hire of an XT2 would be about £25 a day.
No use to the OP now obviously. But food for thought for all of us for the future perhaps...
 
Thanks for the reply lens flare , I totally get what your saying ( and I'm glad your on the mend ) I do try to avoid being a cash cow but being next to useless at anything post processing I do use the subscription stuff because I don't know my options ! Iv often considered Fuji due to the good press they get but I actually think a d3x is my ideal and perfect camera , with a good set of lenses obviously .
Finances mean I'm staying with my " old " Olympus kit though .
 
Damo1 said:
Thanks for the reply lens flare , I totally get what your saying ( and I'm glad your on the mend ) I do try to avoid being a cash cow but being next to useless at anything post processing I do use the subscription stuff because I don't know my options ! Iv often considered Fuji due to the good press they get but I actually think a d3x is my ideal and perfect camera , with a good set of lenses obviously .
Finances mean I'm staying with my " old " Olympus kit though .
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I used to get GAS for Fuji gear all the time, it was easily cured by going to a shop and picking some of it up, I found it pretty horrid in real life.

If you have ever read any of the OPs posts about computers/IT, this situation would have been pretty easy to foresee...
 
LC2 said:
then perhaps hiring for a short time, to see if it gels, is the best approach.
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Sometimes its enough to spend 5 min in exhibition or shop with demo unit. It was more than enough to clearly demonstrate no small sensor fuji would work for me. MF is a different story, but only because it offers so much more.
 
Nawty said:
I used to get GAS for Fuji gear all the time, it was easily cured by going to a shop and picking some of it up, I found it pretty horrid in real life.

If you have ever read any of the OPs posts about computers/IT, this situation would have been pretty easy to foresee...
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I'll do some searching then ...
 
Lensflare said:
You are SO wrong. I couldn't get ANY interest in the XT2 and motordrive at all. So gave it back to the shop to sel because they are a big Fuji outlet and have loads of customers looking for stuff. A barely used XT2 and drive you would have thought would have been a tempting saving on a new one...not a sniff. I was prepared to let someone on here have it much cheaper than a shop, but I never even got an enquiry.

As for the size - pictures with dimensuions are all well good. Do it for real, putting them in a bag - not very much in it. I do know about sizes because I travel by motorbike and it has to fit in my pannier. There is less actual difference than made out by marketing hype - in the real world my Nikon outfit doesn't take up any more space than the Fuji system did. IT ALL FITS IN THE SAME BAG I HAD THE FUJI CRAMMED INTO! It was crammed too, so is the Nikon, but the zip still does up - so it is only how much the fabric stretches!
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WTF is a motordrive? You mean the battery grip? why not just call it that? Did you put it in classified here? If you'd put a mint, as you claim, XT2 + official grip up for £600 you would have sold it easily, but you didn't even try. I'd have paid that for it no problem, as the body alone goes for £650+ in good nick.

Put any camera and a few lenses in a bag and they will of course weight up, but a D4 is massively larger and heavier than an XT2, you don't have to carry the grip at all times, that is why it is optional!

If you much prefer the Nikon, that's great! But I don't get why you feel the need to p*** on the XT2 just because it didn't suit you - it's more than enough for most. There's better cameras for less money than the D4s too, I know I wouldn't touch that camera because of it's heft - I'd much rather spend the money on something like an A7III or even push more to a Nikon Z. IMO the D4 is a bit of a dinosaur.
 
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LC2 said:
Quick chaps... Simon has sussed out that all the excellent pics on the Fuji thread are actually fakes we took with Nikons and amended the exif. Time to make our escape! ;)
Ah, no... I feel that actually the Fuji pics might be taken with Fuji Cameras and aren't re-posted marketing shots etc. They can and do take bloody good shots.

Seriously though. Like I said earlier. If you're entrenched in an existing system, but are looking to change systems (for whatever reason), then perhaps hiring for a short time, to see if it gels, is the best approach.
I looked on Stewart's site and 5 days hire of an XT2 would be about £25 a day.
No use to the OP now obviously. But food for thought for all of us for the future perhaps...
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Do you know what the real irony is?

Andre at Fuji was willing to lend me a complete system to trial for a few months first. I was too impatient to try to get back to work and just went on other peoples' say so. I talked at length with Jonesie, their motor sport ambassador and he talked me through his settings and how he was doing stuff. That was before he tried doing boats, he went to the P1 round somewhere or other and found it wasn't as easy as he thought it would be. He got some good shots, pretty standard stuff but nothing out of the ordinary. The focus is not as predictable as land based stuff and the 3d movement like you get in the air is also less predictable and happens at a much faster frequency. Shooting air-to-air is much easier than shooting boat-to-boat, and you haven't got someone throwing buckets of saltwater over you while you're shooting. It is in these situations, when you are trying to keep your feet and have no horizon to guage the movement from, as soon as you put viewfinder to eye you have no horizon for reference, that is when handling really comes into its own. The EVF was crap and using the screen was like trying to play a gameboy - something I have never done in my life, nor any of the other 'gameboys'. In my medical state I made a hasty decision. The system still isn't any good to me. It won't work with my existing computer stuff - so in addition to the camera outfit, I really needed to then upgrade my computer, and then all the programs on top, so instead of being a cheap system, in reality it would have worked out about double the cost of the D4s replacement kit.
 
Cagey75 said:
WTF is a motordrive? You mean the battery grip? why not just call it that? Did you put it in classified here? If you'd put a mint, as you claim, XT2 + official grip up for £600 you would have sold it easily, but you didn't even try. I'd have paid that for it no problem, as the body alone goes for £650+ in good nick.

Put any camera and a few lenses in a bag and they will of course weight up, but a D4 is massively larger and heavier than an XT2, you don't have to carry the grip at all times, that is why it is optional!

If you much prefer the Nikon, that's great! But I don't get why you feel the need to p*** on the XT2 just because it didn't suit you - it's more than enough for most. There's better cameras for less money than the D4s too, I know I wouldn't touch that camera because of it's heft - I'd much rather spend the money on something like an A7III or even push more to a Nikon Z. IMO the D4 is a bit of a dinosaur.
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As a warning to others not to follow and make the same mistake. TRY BEFORE YOU BUY - and in the shop or show is NOT SUFFICIENT. You need at least a week with it.
 
Cagey75 said:
There's better cameras for less money than the D4s too, I know I wouldn't touch that camera because of it's heft - I'd much rather spend the money on something like an A7III or even push more to a Nikon Z. IMO the D4 is a bit of a dinosaur.
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Better in some ways, but not speed or AF. It depends what you need it for. Resolution is on a lower side (16MP) but it's actually still plenty for most commercial jobs and quite large prints. It wouldn't be my weapon of choice as I want higher resolution, and that is that.

I would guess you've never handled one either. You should. They are nowhere near the dinosaur you make them out to be. If you need gripped body for weddings or portraits it is a great package ergonomically, far better than say D8xx + separate grip or Canon equivalent. For tripod work grip is a big inconvenience. So it all depends.

Nikon Z is experimental tech. Wait for mk2.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
I would guess you've never handled one either. You should. They are nowhere near the dinosaur you make them out to be. If you need gripped body for weddings or portraits it is a great package ergonomically, far better than say D8xx + separate grip or Canon equivalent. For tripod work grip is a big inconvenience. So it all depends.

.
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I stood in a camera store in Dublin with a D4 in one hand and a D800 in the other some years back, I honestly struggled, but the lighter weight of the D800 won. At the time I had no budget issues, no specifics, just went by the feel. never regretted it, never felt I lacked anything. But it is case dependent, I wasn't shooting any sports or aerobatics.
 
I was involved in several of the threads at the time, and at the end of the day, it's what works for the individual that matters. I think Simon would be the first to admit that technological change doesn't sit well with him, so it's no big surprise that the Nikon works well, and for him, it's clear the Fuji system was a failure (and an expensive one!).

Could he have made more money from the sale, of course. Is Nikon the 'right' choice and Fuji a pile of crapola? Certainly for him, not for me, perhaps for you? Having a choice is great, I'm sure we can enjoy the opportunities it creates it without crapping on anyone else who has a different preference.
 
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