Exposing for the highlights in manual mode.

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Peeps I need some help !!! just need the below clarifying. I been away for a while and has started reading up again in photography. Iam using a cannon 400D by the way.


Exposing for the Highlights...

Take for example I am in manual mode and metering has been set to spot metering.

I expose for the highlights by using spot metering on the brightest part of the scene and set my camera settings(aperture and shutter speed accordingly) so that the internal camera meter now reads 2 stop brighter than neutral. (ie the floating pointer is now on +2 on the internal metering scales)

My questions are once I have calibrated my camera for the highlights.

Correct me if iam wrong…

1. If I recompose the scene the camera internal meter is now telling me I will be underexpose. Do I just ignore it. As my camera settings from above are set to a expose for the highlighted area.


2. Once I have calibrated my camera for the highlighted areas. The midtones and the shadows in the scene will all fall into place based on my “ baseline” settings for the highlights ?

I hope Iam making sence :) Thanks in advance
 
1) Yes, just ignore it. As you are shooting in manual the camera has no say over the settings, if shooting in one of the other modes you would need to use exposure lock.

2) not sure what you are asking here, but if you expose for the highlights then midtones and shadows will be darker than normal depending on how bright the highlight is.
 
2. Exposing for the highlights will not automatically mean that the shadows will not be under-exposed. That depends on the dynamic range of the scene. What it does mean is that you won't over-expose the highlights and you'll retain as much image detail as possible.
 
1) Yes, just ignore it. As you are shooting in manual the camera has no say over the settings, if shooting in one of the other modes you would need to use exposure lock.

2) not sure what you are asking here, but if you expose for the highlights then midtones and shadows will be darker than normal depending on how bright the highlight is.


Thank you for clarifying point 1.
 
2. Exposing for the highlights will not automatically mean that the shadows will not be under-exposed. That depends on the dynamic range of the scene. What it does mean is that you won't over-expose the highlights and you'll retain as much image detail as possible.


Thanks for the reply...really appreciate it as its been bugging me :)

Through the viewfinder the internal camera meter only shows scales reading of up to +2 for the highlights. I think you can take it beyond +2 to another stop. You just have to remember the number of turns you have done on the dials.

Is this how you would bring out details in the shadows that otherwise would have been hidden. Is this how it works ? as I have now uplifted and shifted the tonal scales onto another zone so to speak and dragging the other zones with it...sorry I hope Iam making sense.
 
Perfectly and pretty much yes :)

Our eyes are capable of seeing a much greater range in terms of highlights and shadows than our cameras. If you want to retain the highlights meter as you described but yes it will pull the dark end up with it. A camera only has (I think) around 5 stops of dynamic range so as you pull it up for the highlights you are also pulling it up two for the shadows.

Sometimes it is actually preferable to have something in the middle to right range so you can recover some highlights AND shadows but it very much depends on the scene in question and where all the information is.
 
This can lead to a lot of noise in the shadows though.
 
I'm sure I read the D3 has a whooping 9 stops of dynamic range, can this be true?

Also, regarding your eyes, if you think about it they are probably not as good as a camera at a single time - we have incredible short depth of field and probably a crappy dynamic range although we have an uber USM lol and can probably go to much further extremes at either end of the scale!
 
Perfectly and pretty much yes :)

Our eyes are capable of seeing a much greater range in terms of highlights and shadows than our cameras. If you want to retain the highlights meter as you described but yes it will pull the dark end up with it. A camera only has (I think) around 5 stops of dynamic range so as you pull it up for the highlights you are also pulling it up two for the shadows.

Sometimes it is actually preferable to have something in the middle to right range so you can recover some highlights AND shadows but it very much depends on the scene in question and where all the information is.


As you say the camera has a dynamic range of 5 stops. So it seems where you place your highlights is important then. If you get it "spot on" you will get the full 5 stop range represented in your picture. If you get the "placement wrong" you would get burnt outs and shadows would be uplifted.
 
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lol I think I'm showing my age here, used to be 5 stops and yes the D3 has 9 (and so has my D700 woo hoo! :))

The 400D is actually just under that at 8.4 as measured here http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/page19.asp

But where the D3 is getting into it's stride at ISO 1600 the 400D is dropping off the bottom of the shadows as they are replaced by noise.

This is why it is a balancing act and I have, on occasion, chosen to let some highlights go so I can retain some shadow info. Blinkies are my weapon of choice as I can see exactly where the blown bits are and if they are critical to what I want from the file.
HTH
 
Funny how through the camera viewfinder the exposure meter only shows scale of 5 dynamic range for the 400D when in reallity is is really capable of 8.4 according to that weblink.
 
Funny how through the camera viewfinder the exposure meter only shows scale of 5 dynamic range for the 400D when in reallity is is really capable of 8.4 according to that weblink.

Are you not confusing over/under exposure with dynamic range? No camera I know of shows dynamic range.....
 
Are you not confusing over/under exposure with dynamic range? No camera I know of shows dynamic range.....

I could be getting mixed up :)

Does dynamic range means the tone range that the camera can capture from the Shadows end all the way to the highlight end. In the case of my camera, canon 400D in the viewfinder its 5 stops difference (- 2.5 and +2. 5 on either side of 0)
 
Dynamic range is the capability of the sensor to resolve detail in shadows AND highlights.

The scale in your viewfinder is over/under exposure as defined by the camera meter.

In other words the camera will meter a scene depending on how you set it up (spot/evaluative/matrix) and you can dial in up to two stops over/under depending on your interpretation of the scene. It's your way of overriding what the camera is thinking because you have a bigger brain! ;)
 
Just out of interest, what subject matter are shooting that requires manual? Although modern metering is more than fairly accurate, providing you have the time during shooting, why not just refer to histogram and highlight blinkies? I'd personally prefer to rely on actual data info (histogram) than what the camera thinks the scene should be metered at?
 
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Peeps I need some help !!! just need the below clarifying. I been away for a while and has started reading up again in photography. Iam using a cannon 400D by the way.


Exposing for the Highlights...

Take for example I am in manual mode and metering has been set to spot metering.

I expose for the highlights by using spot metering on the brightest part of the scene and set my camera settings(aperture and shutter speed accordingly) so that the internal camera meter now reads 2 stop brighter than neutral. (ie the floating pointer is now on +2 on the internal metering scales)

My questions are once I have calibrated my camera for the highlights.

Correct me if iam wrong…

1. If I recompose the scene the camera internal meter is now telling me I will be underexpose. Do I just ignore it. As my camera settings from above are set to a expose for the highlighted area.


2. Once I have calibrated my camera for the highlighted areas. The midtones and the shadows in the scene will all fall into place based on my “ baseline” settings for the highlights ?

I hope Iam making sence :) Thanks in advance

You're right, but I'm not sure this is the best way of going about things with digital, given that what you are doing here is making a whole bunch of assumptions (which you are forced to make when shooting film) when with digital you have the LCD image with blinkies (highlight over exposure warning) plus the histogram to guide you. That is actual exposure, no assumptions or guesswork involved. This makes a huge difference to the way of working.

Your technqiue is a method of 'exposing for the highlights and letting the shadows look after themselves' - a variation of incident light metering favoured for slide film. What you are doing is telling the camera to place the tone you have metered for two stops above 18% grey (assuming the camera is calibrated for 18% grey which is probably isn't).

However, when you meter 'highlights' are you metering a white tone that you want to retain some detail in, or bright whites that you want to be just blown, or specular reflections that will be very many times brighter than that? That's a judgement call you have to make every shot.

Then there is the dynamic range of the sensor, and let's say seven stops for sake of argument, though it varies according to camera settings - three stops above 18% grey and four stops below. If you are setting your highlights two stops above 18% grey, you are wasting one stop of potential. And with digital, the most data rich area is the highlight end - check out Expose To The Right (of the histogram) technique.

It makes more sense, and it is far easier, to be guided by the LCD/blinkies/histogram - and it's more accurate.
 
This is why it is a balancing act and I have, on occasion, chosen to let some highlights go so I can retain some shadow info.

I couldn't agree more, it's more important that a photo looks good just how you wanted it to - which doesn't necessarily mean it's got to be technically correct to achieve this!
 
You're right, but I'm not sure this is the best way of going about things with digital, given that what you are doing here is making a whole bunch of assumptions (which you are forced to make when shooting film) when with digital you have the LCD image with blinkies (highlight over exposure warning) plus the histogram to guide you. That is actual exposure, no assumptions or guesswork involved. This makes a huge difference to the way of working.

Your technqiue is a method of 'exposing for the highlights and letting the shadows look after themselves' - a variation of incident light metering favoured for slide film. What you are doing is telling the camera to place the tone you have metered for two stops above 18% grey (assuming the camera is calibrated for 18% grey which is probably isn't).

However, when you meter 'highlights' are you metering a white tone that you want to retain some detail in, or bright whites that you want to be just blown, or specular reflections that will be very many times brighter than that? That's a judgement call you have to make every shot.

Then there is the dynamic range of the sensor, and let's say seven stops for sake of argument, though it varies according to camera settings - three stops above 18% grey and four stops below. If you are setting your highlights two stops above 18% grey, you are wasting one stop of potential. And with digital, the most data rich area is the highlight end - check out Expose To The Right (of the histogram) technique.

It makes more sense, and it is far easier, to be guided by the LCD/blinkies/histogram - and it's more accurate.


Cheers for the detailed response HobbyUk really appreciate it. It has really cleared some of the information overload I ve been getting :)


It was a technique that I followed after reading a book on digital photography, about taking control in manual mode for consistency. If there are other easier techniques achieving the same result I am all ears :) From your response I realize now that it does involve a lot of assumptions and if you get the placement wrong for the highlights it will affect the whole shot. But I will be checking LCD and histogram to assist at the same time.


So...what would be your method of tackling a “typical” scene that you are photographing.


1. Which mode would you be using
2. Would you just take a test shot initially and just check the LCD for Blinkies and histogram for tonal range and adjust for the shot accordingly?

Thanks in advance
 
Cheers for the detailed response HobbyUk really appreciate it. It has really cleared some of the information overload I ve been getting :)


It was a technique that I followed after reading a book on digital photography, about taking control in manual mode for consistency. If there are other easier techniques achieving the same result I am all ears :) From your response I realize now that it does involve a lot of assumptions and if you get the placement wrong for the highlights it will affect the whole shot. But I will be checking LCD and histogram to assist at the same time.


So...what would be your method of tackling a “typical” scene that you are photographing.


1. Which mode would you be using
2. Would you just take a test shot initially and just check the LCD for Blinkies and histogram for tonal range and adjust for the shot accordingly?

Thanks in advance

1) Evaluative.
2) Yes, and push the histogram to the right.

Explanation (apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs ;) ).

The basics of exposure setting are quite simple I think. You can make it as complicated as you like, and those that somehow manage to write whole books about it usually do.

First of all, I would say forget film. It is interesting from the point of academic understanding but film is different to digital, and slide film is different to negative film in terms of how you get the best from each. Digital has something in common with both, but is actually like neither.

What you are trying to do is take a typical scene which perhaps has a brightness ratio of maybe 1000:1. It may be more or less than that, but generally speaking it will be very much wider than the 128:1 that your average sensor is capable of recording. That's seven stops, and while you can argue the toss about that, the basic problem remains - trying to squeeze several quarts into a pint pot.

Fortunately, the important tones in most scenes cover a much smaller range and the business of exposure is deciding what those tones are and making sure they fall within the dynamic range of the sensor.

The best way of doing that is to use evaluative/matrix metering, which takes dozens of readings from all over the frame. In doing so, it not only knows the average scene brightness, it knows the dynamic range, it knows where the dark and light ones are, and it knows what area of the picture they occupy. From this information, it can make a pretty good stab at the optimum setting, and furthermore it can 'evaluate' the data to shift things further if necessary. For example, if it sees a large bright area at the top of the frame, possibly coinciding with a distant focusing position if the lens reports that, it's a pretty safe guess that this is the sky in a landscape and it will make an appropriate adjustment. Evaluative is far more sophisticated than any of the other modes, and also much 'safer' - unlike spot for example, which is a risky option unless you know exactly what you're doing.

Evaluative will always get you close, if not optimum, with zero input from the user. Good for outputting straight from JPEGs. Just check the LCD with blinkies enabled to make sure you haven't blown anything important.

However, digital sensors record far more data at the highlight end and if you are prepared to do a little post processing of the Raw file, there is quite a lot more to be gained - at least one stop, maybe two or possibly even more depending on the subject. This is the principle of Expose To The Right (of the histogram) technique. (Good article here here http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml )

What you do here is check the histogram/blinkies and increase the exposure, pushing the data to the right as far as you dare. The blinkies will start to flash and you then have to decide what highlight detail you want to retain, and what you are prepared to let blow to pure white.

When you have done this, not only have you maximised the tonal detail in the highlight end, there is a big difference in the shadows where an extra couple of stops of exposure really makes a big difference to the separation of darker tones and reduces shadow noise dramatically. Of course, you have now over exposed the in-camera JPEG which looks too bright, but when you pull it back down again in post processing of the Raw, you are left with cleaner highlights, richer and more luminous shadows, and minimal noise.

It looks great, but you have to make sure you don't blow anything important - that's the trick. Remember that the LCD/histogram/blinkies are all generated off the JPEG file and are therefore subject to the effects of all the camera pre-sets - picture styles, noise reduction etc. In particular, the contrast setting shifts the histogram/blinkes around quite a lot, so set that as close to zero as you can and you'll be pretty close to what you've got on the naked Raw.
 
That is a great post Hoppy, thanks for the info - it's very useful for a beginner like me!
 
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