Beginner Family shoots?

[EllieJay]

Hi,

I have been enlisted to do a 'family photoshoot' day at my children's school - mainly as the recent official school photos were awful this year!

To be honest I have no idea what to do - and won't know most of the families so don't know who will be in the photos so will have very limited planning time - certainly not any time to get personalised props etc.

What I need to know is how much do you guys think I should charge for digital copies? A friend said do a flat rate for a set, but a bit worried about that as I am not likely to get the same number of decent ones of each family as I am far from professional! Also - how long do you think would be OK per family, was thinking 30 mins or so, but as I have never done this sort of thing before I really have no clue.

Any advice about doing such a task would be grateful received!

Thanks
Ellie

 

[Phil V]

It's difficult not to be negative, but my general gut reaction starts simply:

If you're asking a business question in the Beginner section, you're not ready.


However; there's further clues here, by your own admission you've been pressed into doing a 'job' that's beyond you...

am not likely to get the same number of decent ones of each family as I am far from professional!

It's time to either disentangle yourself from this, or to go in there and tell them exactly what you're going to deliver, based on what you're absolutely confidant you can do.

The general rule in business is under promise / over deliver, you're currently stretching yourself into overpromising.

 

[EllieJay]

Well, it's not really 'business' as such as it's raising money for the school - so I sort of feel that I should try at least... but yes - completely up for saying NO next time!

 

[stumac]

If it's not business and raising money for the school are you not best letting the school handle the money end of things then?
You just turn up and shoot

 

[Alastair]

Well, it's not really 'business' as such as it's raising money for the school

It's amazing how the missing details from a question can be the most relevant

You could just use an honesty box which removes the "How much do I charge?" question when you're unsure of your ability to deliver?

Any advice about doing such a task would be grateful received!

Practice. Get in lots of practice between now and the date. Rope in your helpful "flat rate" friend's family and find conditions as close as possible to those you expect on the day.

Make sure you're comfortable with your lights and how to use and rearrange them for groups of 2-6 people. Work out what your background is going to be. Have some stock poses in mind for groups of 2-6 people. Figure out how you're going to process and deliver the digital files on the day. You'll probably need someone manning a laptop turning around the previous set whilst you shoot the next.

 

[juggler]

Practice. Get in lots of practice between now and the date. Rope in your helpful "flat rate" friend's family and find conditions as close as possible to those you expect on the day.

Make sure you're comfortable with your lights and how to use and rearrange them for groups of 2-6 people. Work out what your background is going to be. Have some stock poses in mind for groups of 2-6 people. Figure out how you're going to process and deliver the digital files on the day. You'll probably need someone manning a laptop turning around the previous set whilst you shoot the next.

This is really worth emphasising. Posing, lighting and workflow management are going to be your main issues. Everyone has to start somewhere and there's no reason why you shouldn't do it if you can get the practice in.

That said, I've theoretically got the skills and experience to do it but I'd try to find someone local who is used to running a photobooth setup and is willing to let the school to take a cut - and offer to help them out by organising people in and out of the booth, taking names & addresses, etc.

 

[MidnightUK]

What I need to know is how much do you guys think I should charge for digital copies?

The school should know what has been charged by prev photographers, so ask them. You are doing them a favour, so I am sure they will be helpful. Also ask what was included for the various payments and what the delivery time period was.

personalised props etc

Ask them to bring something meaningful to the family with them if you really want props. It may be easier to work on fun poses and groupings. Look up studios on the net that specialise in family shoots and steal any poses that look fun. Getting into a pose can amuse people and break ice if its a more complex one that they can laugh over.

Practice. Get in lots of practice between now and the date. Rope in your helpful "flat rate" friend's family and find conditions as close as possible to those you expect on the day.

This.

Also:

Have you worked out how to deliver the images in a financially viable way?

Be aware some people (who probably have control issues rather than safety issues) are very weird and aggressive about others having images of their kids and what happens to those images. If you are not seen as 'pro' they may question it more. If you get someone difficult they may ask the school if you have a CRB check (or whatever initials it is now).

Have some way to keep track of the childs name. If they get out of order it will be a pain to sort out. Maybe get the family to hold up their name on a board for the first image - it could even be a fun part of the shoot. Have a couple of boards maybe, so the next family can play about writing their name while you shoot the first one.

Be prepared for people to whine, esp if they end up paying for images before they have seen them and then for some reason hate how they look (people have lots of hangups unrelated to photo quality).

Shoot tethered to a laptop if you can. I assisted with a few dance class shoots, running and vetting the images as they came into the laptop and letting the main photographer know if he needed to retake. Things can look good in camera, then you find someone blinks or an elbow is blocking someones face.

Backup the images at earliest point, so you have at least 2 copies in different places until the images are delivered in case any cards or drives fail. You really do not want to reshoot.

Shoot in RAW so you have the most leeway to correct any issues that went un-noticed at the shoot.


If any of this goes wrong or people do not like some of the images, do not let it ruin your confidence.


Let us know how it goes

 

[MidnightUK]

Another thought.
INSURANCE

You need to check with the school what the insurance situation is, if you are shooting on their premises. They may not be allowed to have you shoot for them if you have no public liability insurance of your own, as it may be against their own insurance or rules. People tend to forget to check such things.

Also, you need to know where you stand if someone has an accident while being shot by you, wherever the shoot takes place. If someone slips and breaks a leg or falls over a cable or a light crashes on them, you need to know you personally are financially safe.

If some plonker through injury cant run their business for a couple of months or some kid gets electrocuted you could be sued for thousands. Literally.

Make sure you are covered by either the schools insurance or your own. Get it in writing so they cant deny cover if something does go wrong.

Also
Your house insurance may not cover damage to or theft of your kit if you are doing anything that could be considered a form of business
If you are deemed to be doing business, your car insurance may not be valid for transporting your kit or yourself to and from the event or cover you if someone is injured by your car.

 

[MidnightUK]

I forgot to say good luck and I hope it goes well.

How many families/children are you shooting?

 

[EllieJay]

Thanks so much - didn't even consider insurance. Have asked for confirmation as there is no way I need to get sued lol - they said it is probably ok as it's a charity thing but so not taking that risk!

Will let you know what they say.

Was going to do 5/6 families in the day - but will see who wants to go for it!

 

[EllieJay]

Was thinking of delivering the images on usb sticks- can get 8gb off amazon for £1.22 so thought that would be cheap enough!

 

[Alastair]

Was thinking of delivering the images on usb sticks- can get 8gb off amazon for £1.22 so thought that would be cheap enough!

That's the easy bit. Have you worked out how you're going to get the shots taken, the images downloaded, selected and processed and onto the stick on the day?

 

[EllieJay]

Oh no... not doing it same day! Will give them out about a week later in the playground ☺

 

[Alastair]

Oh no... not doing it same day! Will give them out about a week later in the playground ☺

If you want to meet the primary aim of raising money for the school, you really need to turn and burn on the day so everyone can see what they're getting.

How's the lighting and posing practice coming along?

 

[MidnightUK]

If you want to meet the primary aim of raising money for the school, you really need to turn and burn on the day so everyone can see what they're getting.

I cant see how a beginner can be expected to turn around post processing and image sorting that fast.

 

[Alastair]

I cant see how a beginner can be expected to turn around post processing and image sorting that fast.

But equally, how does a beginner sell on the day sight-unseen?

Family one are the guinea pigs, but after that if all goes well they're your ambassadors in the room.. but only if they have seen the results. Otherwise your selling jam tomorrow, off the back of a bad experience from the last professional to try.

 

[EllieJay]

Well, they are going to pre book so will know it won't be the same day...

Lighting is a bit hit and miss if I am honest. Easier in day light obviously, but I can't get it perfect every time yet. My poor kids are having to be guinea pigs nearly every night so I can try out different set ups!

 

[artographywales]

A good way to gauge reaction to the photo is in real time is to use tethered capture with a monitor displaying the shots to the families. You should be able to tell instantly if they like them, Lightroom has this function and is quite easy to use. Arm yourself with 3-4 poses and do the same for all of the families, you can always ask them if there is something in particular they would like too. Take a large empty picture frame and each member can take it in turns holding the frame then position each family member inside the frames i.e. dad holding the frame with mum pictured inside the frame holding the frame of the kid/s inside that frame. Make sense?

 

[artographywales]

This might be a better way of explaining it

 

[connersz]

Some of the responses on here could be overkill really. If you're just raising money for the school then I wouldn't worry too much about all the contractual blah blah.

The thing is though, you said you're doing it because the school photos weren't great. This means you're already kind of saying that you're going to do better. It certainly won't look good if you don't.

The problem with school photographs is that the parents like to complain about them. They still buy them but they love to complain and when they don't buy them, they have to complain to everyone. The chances are, they aren't as bad as you might imagine.

 

[EllieJay]

That's a great idea artographywales - thank you ☺

 

[EllieJay]

Thanks Connorsz - the main problem was they used a yellow background which was awful with their uniform. All the parents just wanted plain white - so that was what I was going for... and hoping for the best really!

 

[MidnightUK]

I wouldn't worry too much about all the contractual blah blah.

The insurance questions for the school are a big issue - if a backdrop falls on a kid or someone knocks it onto a child all hell could break loose if you get one of those parents who takes it all the way. Its so easy for the school to say 'but we thought the volunteer photographyer had insurance, its not our problem'.

Mostl likely nothing at all will go wrong - but if it does, it could get very expensive very fast, just in legal fees for even a minor dispute.

I say this as I was the person who prevented a backdrop from falling on a group of child dancers - as the photographer I was assisting did not bother to anchor it properly and criticised me when I did try (difficult as he had brought no weights etc for the stands)... until the thing started to fall and was prevented by the line I had used to tie it to some wall bars. If one of the support bars had caused concussion or a brain injury the main photographer would have been financially screwed as it turned out he had no public insurance and was not covered by the venue. I stopped working with him.

So OP thats another issue - make sure your backdrops are weighted and/or tied appropriately !

 

[connersz]

The insurance questions for the school are a big issue - if a backdrop falls on a kid or someone knocks it onto a child all hell could break loose if you get one of those parents who takes it all the way. Its so easy for the school to say 'but we thought the volunteer photographyer had insurance, its not our problem'.

Mostl likely nothing at all will go wrong - but if it does, it could get very expensive very fast, just in legal fees for even a minor dispute.

I say this as I was the person who prevented a backdrop from falling on a group of child dancers - as the photographer I was assisting did not bother to anchor it properly and criticised me when I did... until the thing started to fall and was prevented by the line I had used to tie it to some wall bars. If one of the support bars had caused concussion or a brain injury the main photographer would have been financially screwed as it turned out he had no public insurance and was not covered by the venue. I stopped working with him.

So OP thats another issue - make sure your backdrops are weighted and/or tied appropriately !

You're not American by some slight chance are you?

The OP hasn't said what type of background she's using and there's no point jumping to presumptions. It could quite easily be a popup background and a camera-mounted flash for all we know. In any case, things don't just randomly fall over if set up correctly.

You need to use an element of common sense when it comes to these things.

 

[juggler]

Thanks Connorsz - the main problem was they used a yellow background which was awful with their uniform. All the parents just wanted plain white - so that was what I was going for... and hoping for the best really!

If you've been practising you probably know this already but pure white is tricky to get right - especially full length. You'll save yourself a lot of grief if you can do something simpler - like grey.

 

[MidnightUK]

You're not American by some slight chance are you?

The OP hasn't said what type of background she's using and there's no point jumping to presumptions. It could quite easily be a popup background and a camera-mounted flash for all we know. In any case, things don't just randomly fall over if set up correctly.

You need to use an element of common sense when it comes to these things.

No, not USA as you will see from my Forum name. I am presuming nothing at all, only saying the OP needs awareness of where she stands if something goes wrong. Once she has that knowledge, what she chooses to do is totally down to her, but it is important to know.

I was using a falling backdrop as a real life example of things believed to be safe by some, suddenly becoming a hazard that could have seriously injured someone if luck had been bad - that some parents could want to take further legally. (Edit: the backdrop was about 18 feet long, 10 high)

As I said, usually things go well. One checks on the insurance position to make sure you are financially safe if something goes wrong. Checking insurance positions with venues is hardly heavy work that will grind someone down with the effort. To be honest, the school should be on the ball with coverage when holding any event on their premises anyway, to ensure they do not breach any terms.

I presume you never insure your home, home contents or your car on the basis that there will never be an issue, because there has not been one so far. I hope you have lots of savings just in case

 

[EllieJay]

Thanks all, still waiting for the school to confirm as I have now insisted they check their insurance would cover it!

I am using a vinyl backdrop on stands, and I know the lights can easily get knocked over by a runaway toddler so think it is important to check. They do lots of high risk events (firework displays and such) so am sure it would be covered, but really need it in writing as I can't afford to be sued!

Yes - lighting the backdrop has been a real pain, and switching to the grey side I think is a much better option as that really solves that problem. I think grey would be fine as it is neutral enough, they were moaning about the bright yellow one they used this year!

 

[MidnightUK]

For what its worth, I think greys can look nicer, whites can look a bit harsh. Maybe its the brightness of white, I feel I end up being more aware of it than I am of the subject. Grey also goes with any decoration unlike the dreaded yellow, if put on a wall.

I hope my 'make sure you are covered' comments don't come over as too doom and gloom. Its not the intent to be negative about doing the shoot overall, I am sure you will handle the event well, are competent with your set up and will have fun with the families.

 

[MidnightUK]

Just thought of another option, I have a friend who has a lovely school shoot on her wall, printed as a big canvas. The image was converted to black and white. She said she specifically wanted B&W as she felt it focused more on the children, less on fashion and that it would date less.

If you are raising funds for the school, you could add B&W conversion as an added extra.

 

[Get Canvas]

I agree with Midnight, Grey would be a much more 'subtle' backdrop and personally i think it makes editing images after easier too. although as i'm writing this i realize this was a couple of months old. Did you do the event, how did it go?