fast panning and blur help

Royster81

Royster81

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Name
Rhory
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i took these at oulton park last weekend and it's really been my first time out with a 200mm lens and 200 bhp bikes

i found trying to pan with the bikes difficult and was wondering what tips you fellas might have,also i have a little ( read that as a hell of a lot of ) blur on some of the pictures,could i use a faster shutter speed to prevent these or if i get the pan timing sorted will i keep the sensation of speed but without blur ??

edit all shots taken from a nikon d40 55-200mm lens

wheelie http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a297/castroljc/DSC_0013.jpg
150mm,f /5.3 ,expos 1/1000 ,iso 400

another wheelie http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a297/castroljc/DSC_0019-1.jpg
180mm,f /9,expos 1/500,iso 400

too quick http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a297/castroljc/DSC_0032.jpg
116mm,f/4.8,expos 1/1250,iso400

bloody yamahas http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a297/castroljc/DSC_0029-1.jpg
116mm,f/6.3,expos 1/640,iso400

so what do you think i need to try ?
 
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Royster81, i posted my 1st bikes shot yesterday and was also suffering the same fate. I'll be watching closely for some answers.....

From what i can make out, bikes are that little bit harder to master than cars etc.
 
Hiya mate.

Now let this be clear i am in no way an expert but you could possibly use a lower shutter speed to get abit more sense of speed. I have been trying this myself.

One from last year at high shutter speed
DSC_0379-1.jpg


And one from oulton this year with a lot lower shutter speed
DSC_0413-1.jpg


Someone will be along to correct me if i am wrong :)

Hope this helps
 
I would suggest a lower sutter speed, Bikes are Very hard to shoot, there just to quick.

Also a little trick is not to shoot them on a straight if panning/shutter speed is not 100% right, Get them in a corner or braking zone to help you catch them.
 
if possible can you put up some exif details so we can see whats going on ..

i:e is it your panning or shutter speeds..


md(y)

ps them shots are not to bad..
 
I'd suggest trying to avoid things in the background that stick out too much. Marshals and caravans spring to mind for some reason. I know it's not always easy...
 
do u guys use a monopod or tripod while panning?
 
wull,
what sort of settings did you use for the lower picture as this is the sort of thing i'm looking for
gazedd,
it's typical isn't it ,the one and only sport i am interested in and it's the bloody hardest to photograph....sods law lol
monkey dave and matt,
thanks for the confidence boost,i was getting a bit annoyed as i thought every picture had a flaw and i was just wasting my time...
more info has been added monkey as you requested ,well i hope thats what you were looking for
 
:Dyes mate thats what i thought ...

imo your shutter speeds are far to fast..

all you are doing is freezing the action..

have a look in my gallery there is three bikes there all around the 200th of a sec..

you need to practice your panning

all my shots are hand held also.

hth

md(y)
 
For panning you don't really want a Monopod unless you're using a 300mm or 400mm f2.8 "bazooka". You need the flexibility that a monopod takes away from you.

Realistically, you want to be somewhere in the region of 1/200s for panning shots where you intend the decals/sponsor logos o nthe bike to be legible.

If you're going arty and are not interested in clear logos, then you can go slower to really accentuate the blurring of the backgrounds. 1/50s and 1/100s will do this.

Posture is important. You should be square-on to the bike when you intend to release the shutter so position your feet about 12-18 inches apart pointing in the direction of your chosen shutter release point (i.e. hopefully avoiding background clutter).

You need to "swing" the camera and lens as smoothly as possible locking on to a part of the bike/rider with a focus zone in your viewfinder. If you've calculated everything right you should be in a position to release the shutter when the bike is right in front of you.

Panning is a technique that needs to be practised...........ALOT !!!!!

The smoother you are, the closer your are to the speed of the subject and the more accurate your timing, the better your results will be.

Guy
 
CopeImages said:
For panning you don't really want a Monopod unless you're using a 300mm or 400mm f2.8 "bazooka". You need the flexibility that a monopod takes away from you.

Realistically, you want to be somewhere in the region of 1/200s for panning shots where you intend the decals/sponsor logos o nthe bike to be legible.

If you're going arty and are not interested in clear logos, then you can go slower to really accentuate the blurring of the backgrounds. 1/50s and 1/100s will do this.

Posture is important. You should be square-on to the bike when you intend to release the shutter so position your feet about 12-18 inches apart pointing in the direction of your chosen shutter release point (i.e. hopefully avoiding background clutter).

You need to "swing" the camera and lens as smoothly as possible locking on to a part of the bike/rider with a focus zone in your viewfinder. If you've calculated everything right you should be in a position to release the shutter when the bike is right in front of you.

Panning is a technique that needs to be practised...........ALOT !!!!!

The smoother you are, the closer your are to the speed of the subject and the more accurate your timing, the better your results will be.

Guy
Click to expand...

listen to what this man is saying and you will be fine....(y)


md(y)
 
Don't get to hung up on panning / shutter speeds with bikes. When you look at a bike shot your brain adds speed to the shot depending on what's going on ie . " if the bike is leaning over it must be going fast or it'd fall over " . This lets you use faster shutter speeds for cornering (background dependant) .

I use 1/200 - 1/1000 , more based on my mood than science :D

1/200

pan1.jpg



1/640 (shot through a fence)

pan3.jpg
 
Personally, I think the panning must be done hand held..
Slow shutter speeds.. Start around 1/200 for first few laps, then when you get warmed up reduce the shutter speed..
Its just down to practice.. I first started on fast jets in the hills, this was a big help.. Trying to catch a jet doing 400mph ;)

Neil
 
I know people say about practice, but I am not sure that readers will understand that...

Its not like, say, riding a bicycle - when you practice that you get instant results to your efforts and can adjust. Even with a DSLR the results of your work probably don't become apparent until you get home - the back screen certainly on my 30D is not clear enough to determine anything other than composition and exposure.
 
cheers fellas
with the nw200 a week away and me having the week off for the two practice nights and some bike riding in there too fingerscrossed i'll have plenty of time to practice my "swing"
thanks for the help and whatever the results i'll be back on here for more tips
 
So is shooting bikes that different from cars? Some of the replies suggest it is? I've shot a few car races before, and think my results have been quite good, but i will hopefully be shooting my first bike race in a few weeks, at BSB at Donington. For cars, i usually use around 1/200s and always handheld.
 
I'd say it is different Yes.

Bikes have a tendancy to move more erratically, and accellerate faster out of corners. You also tend to be closer to the subject too.

Depending on how critical you are about your compositions you also have to consider the rider as well as the vehicle, something not as important in cars. Rider body position counts towards the overall effect of your image and you have to think about this in terms of your shutter release timing as well as where the vehicle is on the track.

Guy
 
Yes, bikes are different to cars in many ways... smaller than cars (yeah that sounds obvious but when you look through the lens you will see exactly what i mean), coming into the corners the tail will be bouncing around (so don't worry about blurred tails - its very hard to eliminate it, it just depends on the corner!) and also the rider will be moving around too - sometimes this causes OOF stuff, heads in particular.

You'll see!

Hope you've got a nice long lens for Donington... (see my first point!)
 
also watch out for sensor dust on those slow shutter speed shots.. it shows up a lot more (not sure if it because light is hitting the sensor for longer, or because the aperture is smaller - maybe one day i might find out :) )
 
OK. Thanks guys.
It looks as if the better (more dramatic) shots are best had in the corners? With the rider doing some serious leaning?

(BTW, will be using a Canon 100-400 on a 20D)
 
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Having not been to the bikes yet i must say this has helped me a lot

my plan was to stick around F4, shutter speed 1/200 ish and this has convinced me

only problem is i got the best place to start practising, the MotoGP lol

oh the joy lol
 
sorry to sound think, but im new to manual shooting....
i understand the shutter speed bit, and i see whitey has put a aperture of F4....
does it matter what ISO?
 
Don't think you will manage F4 for 1/200 unless it is pretty dull, even on ISO 100 - unless of course you start playing with filters (ND or CPL).

To be honest, try about F9/F10 - its more forgiving. The major background objects will be far enough away for even that to blur it out, combined with a little motion blur. Just stick it into shutter priority and fiddle with the ISO to get the aperture you want, fully manual can be done but in my experience the levels change so much that you can end up with a lot of rubbish very easily - remember cars/bikes are all different colours and probably (if you are lucky) filling your frame resulting in dramatically different light levels.

This is a different game to other photography, you can't look at your bodged shot and think, I'll just try that again with some different settings!
 
will bear that in mind thanks, ISO would be around 400isg i think but we will see

got three days (well two) so i can watch the race to practice
 
Depends on the day - Sunday at Brands I used anything from ISO100-400 and mostly I was shooting 1/320 or 1/400... there is no rule of thumb, its just a case of metering and adjusting on the spot.
 
The advantage of a large F stop is the increased DOF, as the widest part of the bike is normally the riders shoulders any problem in focusing really shows up. I tend to use manual focus on the "typical" bike position and a high F stop to give me a focus "spread".

It gives the camera/lens/AF an easier life :)
 
mewstar said:
sorry to sound think, but im new to manual shooting....
i understand the shutter speed bit, and i see whitey has put a aperture of F4....
does it matter what ISO?
Click to expand...

Ok, you have three things you adjust on your camera:

1) film speed (ISO)
2) aperture size
3) exposure time (shutter speed)

Any one of those three things adjusted up or down will make your picture lighter or darker. They all have that same effect on the light levels in your photo.

So its three variables you adjust to get the pic you want. If you have decided you want F9 and 1/200, then the only way to control how light and dakr your photo will be is to adjust the third variable - the ISO.

In fully manual mode people often forget that whilst they have the aperture and exposure controls to set, the ISO is the third variable and also needs to be taken into account.

On the Canon's I have seen, in dumb "green square" mode it has auto ISO, but there is no auto-ISO in AV, TV or M modes.
 
holy crap ,i'm trying to follow this as best i can but jees ....thats almost over my head ....

i'll try the 1/200-1/400 and anything in between and if i can figure out how to mess with the f/'s i'll try it too.....

or i'll just put it on sports mode ......................................................i'll get my coat..
 
Royster81 said:
or i'll just put it on sports /QUOTE]

Arrrrghhhhh!

That will crank the shutter speed to the max! Noooooooooooo

Seriously, the whole photography thing makes so much more sense when you grasp what I said about the 3 variables... maybe I am not the best person to explain it but its not that complicated and really helps when you understand it.
Click to expand...
 
desantnik said:
Royster81 said:
or i'll just put it on sports[ /QUOTE]

Arrrrghhhhh!

That will crank the shutter speed to the max! Noooooooooooo

Seriously, the whole photography thing makes so much more sense when you grasp what I said about the 3 variables... maybe I am not the best person to explain it but its not that complicated and really helps when you understand it.
Click to expand...


chill man i'm just kiddin lol

i understand what you mean about the 3 variables but it'll take a while and practice before i can use and understand the differences each one makes to the others
thanks for the helps so far fellas
Click to expand...
 
Changing any one a whole "stop" will have the same effect in terms of light/dark.

Although in adition each has its own effect - motion blur (shutter speed), depth of field (aperture) and noise/grainyness with high ISO's (or maybe not if you have a super high end camera!)
 
for panning, do u guys use AI Servo focus, or what?
 
I suffered from the same problem on the day as well, and the only good/clear images I got were off the rear wheel LOL (that boy was quick) These are probably the best ones I got (forgive me as I too am a true novice at this)

BSB21.jpg


BSB23.jpg


BSB24.jpg
 
right so i had another go at this tonight and surprised myself and confussed myself in the space of 4 hours ....
i'm up loading the images as i type so stick the kettle on and by the time you get back i should have something ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a297/castroljc/sunset.jpg
sunset ,need advice on this but i'll start a new thread
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a297/castroljc/rs125.jpg
rs125,pretty happy with this
gsxr1000.jpg

so very proud of this one ,you guys are going to rip it to pieces but i thought it was a good'un
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a297/castroljc/bigcbr1000rr.jpg
similar to the one above but not as good i don't think
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a297/castroljc/61yearold.jpg
believe it or not this dudes in his 60's....
DSC_0103.jpg

i like this one also but it was starting to get dark (hence the sunset) and i forgot to chance some settings...i will learn at some stage but please be patient lol

i tried to get somewhere on the track that had just a plain background but the more we walked around the further from the track i ended up and i only have 200mm (nikn d40 with 55/200 VR) to play with (that sounds so very very wrong) so ignore that back ground at the minute please

i have a few more questions, almost every picture i took with the VR on came out blurred..so i left it turned off,am i wrong for trying to use it tonight or is it designed for something different ?
 
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Looks like you are getting there with it!

As for the VR thing... have you got a mode 1 and mode 2 on it? On the Canon IS system mode 2 is for panning as it only stabalises in one axis, not both.
 
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