Fighting Parking Tickets / Charges ('Fines')

Would you appeal a private parking ticket?

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A

ACW

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Yes
I'll keep this short, as the details aren't overly relevant to my question:

A couple of weeks ago I was visiting a major tourist destination and parked on a cross hatched area. The car park is free and on private land.

After returning to my car, I had a ticket for £95 and immediately (due to my student mindset) starting thinking on how to appeal it.

I've spoken to quite a few people on the matter, and about 50% seem shocked that I would want to appeal it and that I should pay what I owe; some of them almost looked disgusted at what I was suggesting! The other half agreed with me wanting to appeal.

Anyway, I compiled a rather (unnecessarily) wordy legal looking letter and won the appeal.

But I'm left quite surprised that anyone would consider paying a parking ticket straight away without appealing it? (Note I'm not talking about council issued tickets here)

Would you pay straight up or do you fight?
 
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If it's a private company and not a council just get rid of it.

I have a mate who's company just throw them in the bin from private companies.
They get loads every month.
 
Is the ticket issued by a local authority or by a private enforcement company?
 
If it's a private company, then do not pay but do not throw it away, because they will chase you for it.
When they do, copy both the ticket and their letter, and reply politely, stating that you are declining to pay their speculative invoice.
They may persue you three or four times before the message gets through.
But do keep the ticket and the correspondence.

PS. I can't answer the poll as mine isn't exactly an appeal, but I certainly wouldn't pay it :LOL:
 
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Fight. Always. The vast majority are unenforceable. I find parking eye particularly contemptible as they are happy to take the disabled to court over long stays in FREE car parks.

I've only ever had one parking ticket when I sold my car and that was incurred by the new owner and not me. Never had one but if I did there's no way I'd pay it.

Ignoring advice is out of date now as the registered keeper can be held liable for the charges. Parking eye and a few others do take people to court. They are losing a lot lately which is very heartening.
 
pompey306mark said:
If it's a private company and not a council just get rid of it.

I have a mate who's company just throw them in the bin from private companies.
They get loads every month.
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I did receive this as advice from a couple of other people but think it's a bit more risky?


viv1969 said:
Is the ticket issued by a local authority or by a private enforcement company?
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It was a private company. One of the ones that tries to look as authoritative as possible by using acronyms like PCN hoping that people will think it's a Penalty Charge Notice and cave in straight away.

viv1969 said:
If it's a private company, then do not pay but do not throw it away, because they will chase you for it.
When they do, copy both the ticket and their letter, and reply politely, stating that you are declining to pay their speculative invoice.
They may persue you three or four times before the message gets through.
But do keep the ticket and the correspondence.

PS. I can't answer the poll as mine isn't exactly an appeal, but I certainly wouldn't pay it :LOL:
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A lot of people had said ignore it, but if I remember rightly the law on the matter has changed slightly as of 2012? I thought a response was the best thing.

I wanted to issue a straight decline like you suggested, but figured my chances of a positive reply from them may be reduced? Your approach is far more militant than mine, but then again you're far more qualified to successfully adopt such an approach (from what I've read on TP).

Invoice is mentioned in section iv of my reply that I've attached above, I think when people call it a fine, they give it legitimacy that it doesn't deserve!

srichards said:
Fight. Always. The vast majority are unenforceable. I find parking eye particularly contemptible as they are happy to take the disabled to court over long stays in FREE car parks.

I've only ever had one parking ticket when I sold my car and that was incurred by the new owner and not me. Never had one but if I did there's no way I'd pay it.

Ignoring advice is out of date now as the registered keeper can be held liable for the charges. Parking eye and a few others do take people to court. They are losing a lot lately which is very heartening.
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I guess if the appeal fails there is always POPLA before things go to court. But yes, I've seen that some companies actually write on their tickets that they will always pursue those that don't pay through the courts.
 
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Taken from another forum:

The rules changed in October 2012 with regards to simply "ignoring" these fines. It's not the done way anymore thanks to The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. More can be read here if you're really, really bored. But your e-mail/letter response to the company should read "I intend to appeal this parking charge, there is no loss to your company, I had the rights to park there, if you wish to pursue further please issue a POPLA case reference"
 
No, you shouldn't pay, but, as previously advised, you shouldn't just ignore their correspondence either.

Visit these boys .... http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=60

There's plenty of advice there.

Basically, you're wanting the company to provide you with a POPLA reference number, it costs the £27 to issue one, and, following the advice on the above forums, you appeal to POPLA and the case should be toast.

Dave
 
I voted no to appeal but if it was from a private parking company (i.e. not from the council) I wouldn't pay it either. I would just ignore it.

I think your letter won because of the point about the contract. You are absolutely right that there was no contract between you and the company. There is not an implied contract due to the prescence of signs as they cannot be sure that you have read them

And a contract is an agreement between two parties, not an instruction from one.

Was this a letter you found online somewhere or did you draft it yourself?


ACW said:
A lot of people had said ignore it, but if I remember rightly the law on the matter has changed slightly as of 2012? I thought a response was the best thing.
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I don't think the law has changed. The only change is that they can now get your address from the DVLA from your registration.


Steve.
 
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Steve Smith said:
I don't think the law has changed. The only change is that they can now get your address from the DVLA from your registration.


Steve.
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As far as I know, the registered keeper of the vehicle is now liable for the parking charge unless they identify the driver.
 
i got one from parking at Aldi a while back.
apparently overstayed by 3 minutes!!
I did a lot of googling which basically said;

throw it in the bin. (a lawyer on watchdog said the same)
they have to prove you agreed to a contract ie the sign in the car park, and it's basically unenforceable.
Apparently every case they've pursued thats reached court they've lost.
obviously if a ticket is from the police or council you have to pay....although i've successfully appealed twice, both times for my dad, and my wife's mate who got tickets for parking outside my own house!! (dropped kerb)
private company's cannot issue fixed penalty notices iirc
 
Can i just ask why did you park their if you saw it was a no parking place ?,or do you feel rules don't apply to you your above them :rolleyes:
 
simonblue said:
Can i just ask why did you park their if you saw it was a no parking place ?,or do you feel rules don't apply to you your above them :rolleyes:
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The first page of the letter states why, but to sum it up:

The cross hatched zone does not obstruct anyone / anything and is regularly used as overflow parking during busy times. The rest of the car park was full, I couldn't see any attendants directing people.

Cars were already parked in said area, preventing me seeing the only low level sign in the area.

I have parked in this same place countless times before under direction from car park attendants, which arguably sets a dangerous precedent.

Off topic:

The tone of your post is poor and I do not appreciate what you are implying.
 
MartynK said:
As far as I know, the registered keeper of the vehicle is now liable for the parking charge unless they identify the driver.
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That's what I'd read, unfortunately I was the named driver!
 
Carlo said:
yes, but you just say you can't remember who was driving!;)
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That would be far too easy, and I'm sure it's not a loophole. The law makes the registered keeper liable if they fail to identify the driver, and saying that you can't remember who was driving amounts to failing to identify him/her.

There is a possible avenue of escape though. The registered keeper is no longer liable once they've identified the driver, even if the parking management company fail to recover the payment from him/her. I wonder how they'd react if there was a spate of "It was my friend John Bloggs, he was here on holiday"......"Oh, you want his address? It's in Brisbane!"
 
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ACW said:
The first page of the letter states why, but to sum it up:

The cross hatched zone does not obstruct anyone / anything and is regularly used as overflow parking during busy times. The rest of the car park was full, I couldn't see any attendants directing people.

Cars were already parked in said area, preventing me seeing the only low level sign in the area.

I have parked in this same place countless times before under direction from car park attendants, which arguably sets a dangerous precedent.

Off topic:

The tone of your post is poor and I do not appreciate what you are implying.
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Sorry you asked for people options, you got mine :)
 
You can use the POPLA service and actualy COST the parking company 35 sheets to boot.....

You letter is good BTW!

In general and is more the Norm in these private cases the company that has issued the ticket will not be able sow any propriety interest in the land and there will not be a real agreement in place between the real land owner and the parking company to take legal action on the land owners behalf. So no case!

The other thing is ANY charges must show a GENUINE pre-estimate of the lasses the LAND OWNER has suffered as a result of your parking where you did....in a free car park this is not possible is it.....
 
You and Yours said to appeal these. I always do what R4 tell me. Even though I never get parking tickets.
 
MartynK said:
There is a possible avenue of escape though. The registered keeper is no longer liable once they've identified the driver, even if the parking management company fail to recover the payment from him/her. I wonder how they'd react if there was a spate of "It was my friend John Bloggs, he was here on holiday"......"Oh, you want his address? It's in Brisbane!"
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That would be an interesting scenario. If any overseas TP members would like to come over and park my car off-limits places we can test this :LOL:

Maybe my future employers will count this as the legal work experience I'm going to need after qualifying!
 
Steve Smith said:
I voted no to appeal but if it was from a private parking company (i.e. not from the council) I wouldn't pay it either. I would just ignore it.

I think your letter won because of the point about the contract. You are absolutely right that there was no contract between you and the company. There is not an implied contract due to the prescence of signs as they cannot be sure that you have read them

And a contract is an agreement between two parties, not an instruction from one.

Was this a letter you found online somewhere or did you draft it yourself?




I don't think the law has changed. The only change is that they can now get your address from the DVLA from your registration.

Steve.
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Sorry Steve, I missed this post earlier, only viewing on my mobile.

It's a mixture of online sources and various stuff from my textbooks / what I've learnt over the past couple of years.

I guess it was a bit of a shotgun approach to things. Whilst legally I considered the lack of contract the key point, I was unsure as to whether at internal appeal level they would consider such things. Personally I thought the thing that may have helped was the misleading actions by their staff.
 
We had a similar issue about 5 years ago parked in PC World, got the ticket with made up invoice and looked online so just ignored all the letters never responded and they just went away as they were non enoforcable.
 
Have a look at this youtube video from Watchdog no less.

I had one a few years ago and ignored it and all the follow up letters. I was actually parked legally and using the shops that share the car park early on a Tuesday morning with an almost empty car park. My crime was to overstay by about 7 minutes.
 
That's an old clip.

Advice now is to appeal to the parking company ( they will reject it ), and then win at POPLA.

Dave
 
By the way the letter IS fabulous.I just wouldn't have the patience to compile it when a couple of sentences would result in the same outcome; but granted, you didn't know that :)
 
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MartynK said:
As far as I know, the registered keeper of the vehicle is now liable for the parking charge unless they identify the driver.
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No one is liable as it's not a fine. It's just an invitation to pay a charge.


Steve.
 
ACW said:
Whilst legally I considered the lack of contract the key point, I was unsure as to whether at internal appeal level they would consider such things.
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As you probably know, a contract requires three things. Offer, acceptance and consideration. None of these exist in your scenario so there is no contract. Without a contract, they have no case. They know this and they now know that you know this making it not worth pursuing. It's much more profitable to go after people who don't know this who would rather pay up than risk legal proceedings than it is to spend probably more money chasing the charge than the amount of the charge.


Steve.
 
Personally I wouldn't have parked on a cross hatched area in the first place so the matter wouldn't have arisen :)
 
Before the law changed, I would have just ignored it but since the change, I would challenge it and offer a tiny (£5) offer for payment for "losses".
 
being a somewhat middle aged grumpy old woman, I usually fight.... and yes, I've won more than I've lost ;)

So many people in the UK roll over and pay up - a well argued case can go a long way, especially if you can prove extenuating circumstances or justifiable situations :)
 
HopefulM said:
being a somewhat middle aged grumpy old woman, I usually fight.... and yes, I've won more than I've lost ;)

So many people in the UK roll over and pay up - a well argued case can go a long way, especially if you can prove extenuating circumstances or justifiable situations :)
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Everybody I come across when caught always has, extenuating or justifiable circumstances, me I hope I have better things to do with my life than doing things that's might inflict this sort of problem on myself :)
 
simonblue said:
Everybody I come across when caught always has, extenuating or justifiable circumstances, me I hope I have better things to do with my life than doing things that's might inflict this sort of problem on myself :)
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I do agree that we often have better things to do with our time, but complaining about things often highlights shortcomings in service... and if there aren't sufficient car parking spaces (as an example) people won't have much choice but to park somewhere that may not be designated 'appropriate' by the authorities... the same authorities which should either be looking after us (because we pay for them) or making provision for further development to cater for our ever expanding requirements (because that is their job!)
 
HopefulM said:
I do agree that we often have better things to do with our time, but complaining about things often highlights shortcomings in service... and if there aren't sufficient car parking spaces (as an example) people won't have much choice but to park somewhere that may not be designated 'appropriate' by the authorities... the same authorities which should either be looking after us (because we pay for them) or making provision for further development to cater for our ever expanding requirements (because that is their job!)
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I agree in a way,maybe its just me getting to old and tried to think you can change anything anymore,also i live in a small city and the simple fact is if was never build to take the amount of traffic and cars their our about nowadays,its just simple maths.
Me i just walk everywhere very rarely i take a bus :)
 
LASTOLITE said:
You can use the POPLA service and actualy COST the parking company 35 sheets to boot.....

You letter is good BTW!

In general and is more the Norm in these private cases the company that has issued the ticket will not be able sow any propriety interest in the land and there will not be a real agreement in place between the real land owner and the parking company to take legal action on the land owners behalf. So no case!

The other thing is ANY charges must show a GENUINE pre-estimate of the lasses the LAND OWNER has suffered as a result of your parking where you did....in a free car park this is not possible is it.....
Click to expand...

Thanks Bill, it appears the ball is in the drivers court the majority of the time, they just don't always realise it.
 
HopefulM said:
being a somewhat middle aged grumpy old woman, I usually fight.... and yes, I've won more than I've lost ;)

So many people in the UK roll over and pay up - a well argued case can go a long way, especially if you can prove extenuating circumstances or justifiable situations :)
Click to expand...

I imagine the majority of appeals are based around extenuating circumstances and the like rather than relying on legal facts.

It sounds like you park naughtily quite a lot :LOL:
 
Steve Smith said:
As you probably know, a contract requires three things. Offer, acceptance and consideration. None of these exist in your scenario so there is no contract. Without a contract, they have no case. They know this and they now know that you know this making it not worth pursuing. It's much more profitable to go after people who don't know this who would rather pay up than risk legal proceedings than it is to spend probably more money chasing the charge than the amount of the charge.


Steve.
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As you said, there was never any contract to breach, I was confident on that matter. Perhaps I expected them to ignore the validity of my argument and pursue their case (something I see a lot of in an unrelated sector). I absolutely agree with you regarding the chasing, even if 50% of people roll over and pay, that's a huge profit margin for relatively little in the way of overheads.

Interesting to see the broad range of opinions on this matter.
 
I would like to see the law changed so parking charges on private land are as enforceable as penalty charges imposed by traffic wardens. That way, people would know that they run the same risk overstaying their welcome or parking badly in a private car park as they do on a parking meter or double yellow line.

There is no human right to free parking on private land, although plenty of people apparently think there should be.
 
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