fill in flash needed?

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ned.c

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Andrew
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I've been in a situation where I have no choice but to take photos into the sun with people in the foreground. I was shooting in AV mode and using evaluative metering for the shots and getting the majority of frame well exposed but inevitably the people in the foreground are dark/in shadow.

I know I could move the focus to the af button on my 40d and then meter on the shutter button separately on the foreground and then focus as required for the shot but pretty sure I'd end up with completely blowing out most of the background/sky to get the people in foreground exposed nicely.

I'm guessing using fill in flash is the solution? I've tried on occasion with mixed results using the built in flash on my 40d to act as fill in, but have seen some false looking glare/reflections depending on the foregroudn subject/materials.

What sort of settings should I be looking for with flash exposure compensation or metering should I be using? Would an external flash make a difference in terms of getting metering and power levels right? Is it just a matter of trying different things and trial/error/experience or is there some sort of guide I can try to follow to get things right?

Andrew.
 
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Fill-in flash sounds like the answer, and TBH the pop-up is often quite good for that. On-axis direct fill is usally best, but you've got to get the balance right. When it's done properly, it's effectively invisible to the untrained eye - apart from the dramatic difference it makes.

Auto-systems for fill-in have a difficult job because the balance you need varies according to subject and also personal preference. But it's very easy either way. Shoot on Av and the camera will do its best to get the background right with shutter speed, and balance the foregound with the right amount of flash power to suit the f/number.

If you don't like the result, then you can lighten/darken the background with normal +/- compensation on the camera, which adjusts the shutter speed. You can also adjust the brightness of the flash/foreground independently with +/- flash compensation in the menu.

It's better to use an external gun because the flash is a bit higher which usually looks better, and it's often easier to access the flash compensation directly on the back of the gun. But the big advatage of an external flash is the ability to use high speed sync, which allows you to use shutter speeds above the normal max x-sync speed (1/250sec on a 40D).

So make sure you get a gun that does that - all the Canon ones do. You can also do loads of other things to massively improve your flash photography by tilting, swivelling and bouncing, and fitting accessories. I use one of these, Lumiquest Quik Bounce http://www.lumiquest.com/products/quik-bounce.htm Does so many flashy things well, including softened fill-in :thumbs:
 
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Thanks for the replies and great link. I think some softened or difused fill-in is what I need, probably with an external flash for recharge times and fast sync..
 
Pop up is no way any good for fill on bright sun and groups. Close up ports? Just.

you a powerful flash gun or if its bright and doing groups like weddings then a Metz off camera flash has more than enough power.

to get the back ground right you need to metre from the shadow of subject and put a similar amount of flash in to light subject.

I do all this manual as it is quicker and I know the the results are correct.

When doing groups with sun it should always be from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock position.
If really bright say F16 then punch F16 of flash at subject relating to your distance from subject. If cloudy and your getting F8 you will only need F4 of flash say to high light eyes and take out any shadow.

It's so easy the cat could do it.

I guess most would TTL but then I don't fully trust TTL after doing press work it got 2 out of 5 shots when shooting celebs you want every shot to count.

But as the links say there various ways of doing it. They seem to around the houses in explaining how do what is a simple effect.
 
well you say so easy a cat could do it, but I didn't follow everything you said, especially when talking about metering on f values. I did go through the lighting 101 some time back and it made sense at the time but I think I need to get a flash and start playing with it and follow some kind of process to learn how to meter and use it properly..
 
no worries Andrew just had this on another post.


Look for a pleasant back ground. If you take shots in front of building then come someway forward to get building in bg. You don't want a doorway or brick wall.

Make sure is always behind group. 10am to 2pm clock position. Camera is always your 12 o'clock.

Metre from centre of where group is to be, hold it against you in your shade.
For strong sunlight meter your flash for half to a stop under your ambient reading.
If cloudy then go for a third of your reading just to hi light the eyes and take out shadows on face.

20 group have a
7 chair front or kneeling
8 standing
5 on chairs

Get group into height order and put captain and vice centre chairs.

then build group centre out from tallest. then when front row is built next tallest 5 on back row. then go 2nd row from centre out left and right alternate.

Job done.
sun_sports_team_by_dazwpw-d3edgb1.jpg



class_groups__cloudy_day_by_dazwpw-d3edeu4.jpg
 
Daryl, can you explain what you mean when you say 10am to 2pm?
 
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That's his working hours! :lol:
 
Your nose or where the camera faces is 12 o'clock. 10 am to 2pm on the clock face. Going to tell me you only have digital watch now are'nt you?

You obviously not used it when with your mates and you see a nice bit of totty. And you say totty at 3 o'clock., And everyone scans that direction to see her?

Oh. always shoot manual.
 
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Daryl, thanks for taking the time to explain it further. When you say take the metering for the flash are you meaning just using the shutter button half way in spot or evaluative metering mode and see what relative f-value/shutter the camera chooses (relative to the mode you're shooting in) for the shot or is flash metering different in some way? Apologies if this is a numpty question and thanks again for your input.
 
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