Fill In Flash

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lukewoodford

FYI, I am Luke Woodford.....by Luke Woodford
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Luke Woodford
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Ok flash is not my strong point. I have an SB-800 and was shooting on the beach today. The subject had a few harsh shadows so I attempted to use flash to make it nice and even. The 50mm was at 2.8 and no matter what settings I used and pressed the button to make it less powerful it was till way too strong. The only way i coould correct this was by upping the arperture. But then I dont get the blurred backgrounds. Was I missing something or is this the only way?
 
If you wanted F2.8 to get a blurred background... then it was obviously too wide open and letting in too much light.

The other thing to do is to make the shutterspeed faster to get less light in without altering that aperture.

Now the sync speed of the camera when using flash is 1/250th second (or whatever yours is)

BUT if you use the High Speed Flash option on your flash.. you can then set any faster shutterspeed on the camera.

Perhaps that will help you.
 
Speaking as a Canon shooter, here is my opinion, which probably applies well enough to Nikon. (Sorry if it doesn't)...

You can't expect to use a lens at f/2.8 outdoors in (bright) daylight without also using a fast shutter speed and low ISO setting. Unless you have a High Speed Sync function on your flash - and use it - then your fastest available shutter speed will be constrained by the maximum sync speed for your camera. When you turn the flash on, if your shutter speed is too high for the flash to sync it will force your camera to the sync speed. That will overexpose your scene regardless of any contribution from the flash itself.

You have three choices....

- Engage High Speed Sync, so that you can shoot at any shutter speed you like;
- Add a neutral density filter, to take down the strength of the ambient light;
- Stop down below f/2.8.

As a supplement to the above, consider the Sunny 16 Rule.....

On a bright sunny day, with overhead sun and clear skies, at f/16 your shutter speed should be the reciprocal of your ISO. e.g. if your ISO is 200 then your shutter speed should be 1/200. If you are shooting at f/2.8, which is 5 stops faster than f/16, you are going to need far dimmer conditions than bright sunshine, and a lower ISO (if that's even possible on Nikon gear) and probably a faster shutter speed as well. Get any of those wrong and you've blown the shot.
 
As explained above, basically go for a smaller aperture to get 1/250th for the ambient or put on a ND filter to achieve the same shutter speed.

You might want to think about using a reflector instead. It'll save working your flash so hard to overpower the sun and in high sync speed mode you may not have enough power to do that anyway.
 
ranarama said:
As explained above, basically go for a smaller aperture to get 1/250th for the ambient or put on a ND filter to achieve the same shutter speed.

You might want to think about using a reflector instead. It'll save working your flash so hard to overpower the sun and in high sync speed mode you may not have enough power to do that anyway.
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Would that mean having someone to hold the reflector to block out the sun?
 
lukewoodford said:
Would that mean having someone to hold the reflector to block out the sun?
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No. That would be someone to hold a REFLECTOR to REFLECT some light back onto your subject and thus fill in shadows, rather than using flash to accomplish the same thing.

Example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDztPWCTxZ0

Example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPmTusx6T3s

If you post a sample of one of your problem images, with EXIF intact, maybe someone can offer some more specific advice.
 
lukewoodford said:
Would that mean having someone to hold the reflector to block out the sun?
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Not quite, though you may want to get someone to hold it for you. Basically if the sun is behind your subject you can use a reflector to bounce light back into their face to brighten up the shadows. I've got one that has a good handle so you can feasably hold the camera with your right hand while holding the reflector in your left. Not easy but it can be done.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
You need to get the flash off the camera.......
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Not for fill flash you don't. Or are you just playing up to your username. Don't get me wrong, I love off camera flash, but for a bit of fill on a sunny day it's not necessary.
 
That's a kind of sweeping statement (as I suppose was mine), it depends on the situation and/or the effect you are trying to achieve and as neither of us have seen Luke's picture, perhaps we should wait and see what it was that he was attempting to accomplish :)
 
Flash In The Pan said:
That's a kind of sweeping statement
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Well, not really. You said you need to get it off camera. I don't think you need to get it off camera just to brighten up the shadows. If you want to totally overpower the sun to get the background dark and create interesting lighting on the subject then I agree with you, on camera flash is pants for that. For a bit of fill 'to make it nice and even' as the OP said, I'd say it's not really necessary. 1 step at a time eh?:)
 
rdh said:
I second this question. FC can be set on both camera and flash itself (I have 430 EX II). Combined with the in-built diffuser, it's an effective fill-in.
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I dont think I did. How would I do that? I think my namual needs a read. Im not going to post a pics because im feeling very lazy today it was literally that I just wanted to even out the shadows:)
 
lukewoodford said:
I dont think I did. How would I do that? I think my namual needs a read. Im not going to post a pics because im feeling very lazy today it was literally that I just wanted to even out the shadows:)
Click to expand...

Turn your 430 on, then hold down the SEL/SET button. Use the +/- to stop down as far as necessary (try each stop), then press SEL/SET again.

Or hunt it out in your camera's menu :)

Edit: you can also use a DIY bounce card to add nice catchlights in the eyes.
 
rdh said:
Turn your 430 on, then hold down the SEL/SET button. Use the +/- to stop down as far as necessary (try each stop), then press SEL/SET again.

Or hunt it out in your camera's menu :)

Edit: you can also use a DIY bounce card to add nice catchlights in the eyes.
Click to expand...

I have a D300 :)
 
rdh said:
I second this question. FC can be set on both camera and flash itself (I have 430 EX II). Combined with the in-built diffuser, it's an effective fill-in.
Click to expand...

rdh said:
Turn your 430 on, then hold down the SEL/SET button. Use the +/- to stop down as far as necessary (try each stop), then press SEL/SET again.

Or hunt it out in your camera's menu :)

Edit: you can also use a DIY bounce card to add nice catchlights in the eyes.
Click to expand...

Luke is using an SB-800, not a Canon flash. Furthermore, as this was on the beach I'm assuming it was outdoors, which means there would be nothing to bounce off and thus no point in using the diffuser panel (if there even is one on the SB-800) or the white bounce/catchlight card (if the SB-800 has one of those).

The diffuser on a Canon flash may spread/scatter the light - it is intended for use with lenses wider than 17mm on a crop body - but does nothing to increase the appparent/relative size of the light source, and with a 50mm lens mounted and nothing to bounce off would accomplish nothing except wasting most of the light outside the field of view.
 
lukewoodford said:
Ive just been playin around indoors and I seem to be able to adjust everything fine. Im going to go out tomorrow and have a play if its sunny and ill see if i have the same problem.
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Just remember you need to adjust the aperture to get the shutter speed to 1/250th (or whatever the SB800 works at) so you don't go over the max flash sync speed. Otherwise you'll end up with the over exposed photos you got the other day. On a bright sunny day to get 1/250th you'll proably need something near f11 I'd have thought. You'll obviously be able to go wider on a more overcast day.

I'd suggest leaving the flash on ETTL (is that what Nikon call it?) and you might want to knock the exposure comp down 1/3 of a stop or even further if it's overcast.

EDIT - You can't adjust past 1/250 as that is your max sync speed for your flash.
 
tdodd said:
Luke is using an SB-800, not a Canon flash. Furthermore, as this was on the beach I'm assuming it was outdoors, which means there would be nothing to bounce off and thus no point in using the diffuser panel (if there even is one on the SB-800) or the white bounce/catchlight card (if the SB-800 has one of those).

The diffuser on a Canon flash may spread/scatter the light - it is intended for use with lenses wider than 17mm on a crop body - but does nothing to increase the appparent/relative size of the light source, and with a 50mm lens mounted and nothing to bounce off would accomplish nothing except wasting most of the light outside the field of view.
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Must have been talking about the 430 elsewhere and got wires crossed.

For the record, I didn't mean to bounce off anything, except the card. In the case of the diffuser, I forgot to mention that I used an Omni Bounce (been a long day).

Luke: That'll be your max sync speed.
 
The SB-800 will work at any shutter speed, the camera will be limited to 1/250 if it's a modern Nikon (except D40/50/70 which are 1/500)
 
Flash In The Pan said:
The SB-800 will work at any shutter speed, the camera will be limited to 1/250 if it's a modern Nikon (except D40/50/70 which are 1/500)
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Sorry guys im really confused. I understand it wont go past 250 which is the sync speed but it says this number where it usually says the shutter speed so dont understand how to manually adjust the shutter speed with flash on:thinking:
 
Luke - your camera wil not work with the flash attached at a faster shutter speed than 1/250th. Your camera is still displaying the shutter speed but it is restricting you from using a faster speed. If you put the flash in h-sync mode it will allow you to use a faster shutter speed but the pay off is your flash will use more power and the output of your flash will be reduced.
 
ranarama said:
Luke - your camera wil not work with the flash attached at a faster shutter speed than 1/250th. Your camera is still displaying the shutter speed but it is restricting you from using a faster speed. If you put the flash in h-sync mode it will allow you to use a faster shutter speed but the pay off is your flash will use more power and the output of your flash will be reduced.
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Ok thats what I thought before, dont know why im getting confused then:wacky:

EDIT: actually yes it do "The SB-800 will work at any shutter speed, the camera will be limited to 1/250 if it's a modern Nikon (except D40/50/70 which are 1/500)"
 
lukewoodford said:
Ok thats what I thought before, dont know why im getting confused then:wacky:

EDIT: actually yes it do "The SB-800 will work at any shutter speed, the camera will be limited to 1/250 if it's a modern Nikon (except D40/50/70 which are 1/500)"
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It was in response to:

ranarama said:
Just remember you need to adjust the aperture to get the shutter speed to 1/250th (or whatever the SB800 works at)
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The flash gun isn't the restricting factor, it is software in the camera that prevents you going past 1/250. With some cameras (The D50 and D70) you can fool the camera into flash sync'ing at up to 1/4000, but I'd better not confuse you any more with that sort of stuff ;)
 
The Nikon site says of the D300:

Flash Sync Speed: up to 1/250. Flash synchronization at up to 1/320s (FP) adjustable with Built-in Speedlight or optional Speedlight (will reduce GN).

X-Sync Speed: up to 1/250.

FP High Speed Sync: up to 1/8000.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
It was in response to:



The flash gun isn't the restricting factor, it is software in the camera that prevents you going past 1/250. With some cameras (The D50 and D70) you can fool the camera into flash sync'ing at up to 1/4000, but I'd better not confuse you any more with that sort of stuff ;)
Click to expand...

Yes please dont I have a headache.:|
 
rdh said:
For the record, I didn't mean to bounce off anything, except the card. In the case of the diffuser, I forgot to mention that I used an Omni Bounce (been a long day).
Click to expand...

OK, well that still leaves me puzzled about your advice. In order to bounce off the little card you would need the flash pointing straight up, which would waste 95% (or so) of the flash power just vanishing into the sky. If you want a weak flash then why not aim the flash at the subject and simply dial back the power a bit. The catchlight card is intended to throw a little light forward when you are bouncing off a ceiling, not throwing the light away into the sky.

As for diffusion panels and Omnibounces - The diffusion panel is designed, as I said, to widen the spread of the light to cope with lenses wider than 17mm on a cropper. In an enclosed space that might provide some benefit as a way to spread the light so wide that it would bounce of walls and ceilings and thus soften the light. Outdoors, with nothing to bounce off, the widened flash beam would simply be wasted.

I'm afraid it would be equally useless to use an Omnibounce outside. The relative size of the light source would barely be altered and in that regard would do nothing to soften the light. The Omnibounce is intended to work by spreading the light all around indoors and allowing it to bounce back onto the subject as a soft light with no harsh shadows. Using an Omnibounce outside will simply make the flash work harder to compensate for the wasted light disappearing into the surroundings.

If you want softer light outdoors then you need a large softbox or large reflector to bounce the flash off. Tupperware is not the answer.
 
I find the iTTL system works great with flash so not sure what's happening. You can turn the flash down by holding the flash compensation button and dialling in the compensation required with whichever dial sets it on your camera (you can switch the dials in the menu too).
 
Flash In The Pan said:
It was in response to:

....

The flash gun isn't the restricting factor, it is software in the camera that prevents you going past 1/250. With some cameras (The D50 and D70) you can fool the camera into flash sync'ing at up to 1/4000, but I'd better not confuse you any more with that sort of stuff ;)
Click to expand...

Yes, good point about the camera restricting not the flash. You're doing a grand job of confusing matters though picking up on that though:p

@tdodd - spot on about the diffusion outdoors. The amount of times I see people using omnibounces outside is ridiculous. It's usually professionals that do it too. I saw one on the news today, some piece about the world's shortest man and the woman with the worlds longest legs (I kid you not). There was a photographer in the background who had set up a light stand with a normal flashgun on it wirelessly triggered (strobist follower maybe). Thing is it was off to one side and they had it pointing straight up in the air with an omnibounce on it. Complete waste of time and batteries. I wonder if it actually made any difference to the photo at all given it was in broad daylight and was mounted a good 10 feet off to one side.
 
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