Film developing kits - any recommendations? (Now with photos :))

Actaully, now they're dry, the second roll of negs looks ok. I've only scanned a handful, but I'm happy with the results so far. I also avoided any drying marks this time, which is nice.

They're all opportunistic snap-shots taken while out for walks during lockdown (or around the house - the first frame is an OOF mirror selfie :)), so I'm not sure there will be anything of great artistic merit, but I'll post any half-decent ones in Show Us Yer Film Shots once they're all scanned and uploaded.

I've got a roll of 120 to be developed too, but I'm waiting on some negative sleeves before I can give that a shot.
 
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Very interesting @AZ6 . I use HC 110 B, presumably similar to Ilfotec HC... the times aren't that much different from the times for Ilfosol 3 (1+9) that I used before.

I've thought about going for one of the lower concetrations, but two things stop me. Both stem from the fact that I mostly use a Rondinax tank (which also has the effect of reducing dev times by 15% BTW, because of the continuous agitation). The first reason is, well, it's continuous agitation, going from 5 minutes to (say) 15 would be quite a PITA!

The second reason is, I read somewhere that you need at least 6 ml of concentrate to dev a roll of 135. The Rondinax takes 200 ml, and at 1+31 that's 6.25 ml of concentrate! So it seems like while I carry on with the Rondinax I'm pretty much stuck with 1+31...

Is the 6 ml "rule" actually valid?

I'm not a chemist, so I don't know the minimum dilution that would work effectively, you'd have to experiment. I'd imagine at some point, the pH value of the water would affect things, I don't know. But as for time; do you want some pictures, or the best pictures possible? Slow it down, it's not a race. Sure, if you go out and shoot ten rolls at a time, and only have a 1 roll developing tank, it could be a bit of a pita, but 15 minutes is nothing. Fast developers/stronger solutions were for speed; news rooms needed results asap. You don't need to work so fast. I have hazy recollections of my student days, stuff about the silver halide crystals forming better structures with longer, slower development, I can't remember though. Try to think of modern commercial timber production though; trees have been genetically modified to grow more quickly, but the wood isn't as good. Something like that. As for a Rondinax; there's no way I'd use something like that. Continuous agitation?? :eek: Oooh no.
 
Just a quick heads up. I'm about to post a freebie of the first edition of The Darkroom Cookbook by Stephen Anchell in the Freebies section. This thread will probably make it more likely to catch the eye of the really interested.

Edit to add - now posted.
 
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With regard to Chris' query about minimum required quantities. I have taken a quick look round various possible semi authoritative sources without coming up with an answer. As far as I know, different developers will have different limits. One book (either Darkroom or Film Developing Cookbook) was very clear that minimum quantities should be adherred to at your peril, and quoted Kodak for one of their developers. I have looked through the data sheet for HC 110 without finding this information, but can well recall when info sheets did give film area per fluid ounce (or whatever).

The problems are that some negatives will have more highlights than others, meaning more developer will be used. If developer nears exhaustion, highlights will suffer.

By the way, although I do actually have a degree in chemistry, it is actually irrelevant. Nothing in my degree course covered photographic developer or processing. There was a small section of a few pages in the major organic chamistry textbook on photographic developers, but this wasn't covered in my course, All that I know from formal education relevant to the subject is covered by O level chemistry.

The subject is of particular interest to me as I may be embarking on using small quantities, having for many years been working with a litre of developer at a time. Hence, I will continue looking.
 
With regard to Chris' query about minimum required quantities. I have taken a quick look round various possible semi authoritative sources without coming up with an answer. As far as I know, different developers will have different limits. One book (either Darkroom or Film Developing Cookbook) was very clear that minimum quantities should be adherred to at your peril, and quoted Kodak for one of their developers. I have looked through the data sheet for HC 110 without finding this information, but can well recall when info sheets did give film area per fluid ounce (or whatever).
I had read the post by Chris about HC-110 as I was thinking of using it to develop a couple of sheets of 5x4. Dil B at 1:31 gave very little developer for use in a Paterson Orbital, although I'm happy to use up to 200ml in the Orbital. This gave a touch over 6ml of HC-110 to develop 40 square inches of film, and this proved to be entirely adequate. The film was FP4+ which had been very badly stored in dark slides for possibly a couple of years, so there was pretty much nothing to lose in this case. The photos were equally disposable, so I'll not be posting them. :facepalm:
 
Hc-110 diluted 1:31

3ml developer : 93ml water

So nigh only 100ml of solution is adequate to develop four sheets of 5x4 or 1 sheet of 10x8 b&w negative or IR film in a Patterson Orbital tank.

Tried, tested and proven ( by myself) using different brands of film inc FP4
 
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I have still to find a source that answers the minimum quantity question. The Photo Lab Index I checked for Rodinal (no information) and HC 110 (replenish with x ccs of replenisher after y square inches of film). Other Kodak developers I looked at lacked even that information.

Monochrome Darkroom Practice ducks the question completely so far as home processing goes, recommending that if using small tanks, just use developer and throw away after use rather than replenish. Details of replenishment are there for larger tanks etc., but this doesn't address the essential question.

We get almost closer to an answer in Developing, 18th edition, p76. I cite this in detail because the book is available from archive.org as a pdf from Cornell University, who state that it is free of copyright in the US. A search on the site should give the link, or I can look it up. But, it still isn't an answer... There is a small table listing a number of Kodak and Ilford developers which lists how many 10x8 sheets can be processed in 4.5 litres of developer. Presumably working strength, not concentrate. The number varies by a factor of more than 2, from 20 at the bottom to 60-80 at the top end. BUT only D76 and ID11 are listed that are likely to be used here. It does suggest though that a single value such as 6cc won't be true across the board.

That's as far as I've got at the moment. The chemical problem as I see it is that developers contain a restrainer, to prevent too active development of unexposed halides (and too active development generally) as well as the actual developing agents. However, in the course of development, the developing agents are used up, so the activity will reduce over the development time, and more restrainer is produced as a result of development.

One interesting (to me) sidelight was a graph in Monochrome Darkroom Practice showing the build up in contrast over time for intermittent and continous agiation. It is very significant.

Apologies for any typos. I'm tapping this on a tablet with a cat using me as a bed...
 
There was a lad at college who used to muck about experiment with all sorts of different chemistry. He'd store unlabelled bottles of God knows what, all around the darkrooms. Staff would periodically do a sweep and throw it all away. He'd go mad. But some of that stuff was actually pretty toxic, and darkrooms were already not really very nice environments. So many nasty chemicals. Then; he had some idea of collecting all the exhausted developer, to extract the silver (ok fair enough, although I can't imagine the yield would have been worth the effort really). Until the staff found out the extraction process involved him using even more nasty toxic chemicals. :LOL: Nutter.

It came to a head one time, when he was using some toner or summat, and it contaminated the dev, ruining everyone else's prints (people were on really tight budgets, some students couldn't afford more paper etc). There was a lot of shouting. I had a go at him, more than once, for his (unconsciously) selfish actions. He did produce some good work mind. But such alchemy requires a lot of resources.
 
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Typo of "exhausted developer" for "exhausted fixer"?

My first thought was that this contamination wasn't primarily a selfish act, as one indicative of sloppy working. A thought confirmed by unlabelled bottles. He should have been banned for that, let alone contaminating things.

That is one thing that you DO learn from the cycle of O A levels followed by BSc in chemistry that is relevant to photography.
 
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P.S. On minimum quantities, I have turned up a thread on photo.net from 2005 where the minimum quantity of HC 110 and a Maco developer are given, and stated to on the instructions. I'll have a more careful read of the HC 110 ones, in case the information is tucked away somewhere I missed.

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And, drat - I should have given a figure. For HC 110 it's 3cc.
 
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This thread on photrio talks about the minimum HC 110 quantity, though casts some doubts, while this thread (linked from the first) says "It takes about 6 mL of syrup to develop one 135-36, 120, or 8x10-inch film without exhausting the developer when complete development is required, perhaps less for compensating development. Thus, when experimenting with extreme dilutions, you may need more than the usual total amount of developer in the tank." The page is very confusing however, talkig about European vs US versions, where dilution B is 1+9 in the European version, and "Be sure to use at least 19.2 mL of European concentrate per 135-36 or 120 roll of film, even if this requires you to put more than the usual amount of liquid in the tank".

I am heartened by @Asha's results however, and if I ever get a roll of black and white I don't care about too much, maybe I'll try dilution H in the Rondinax!
 
That's why Unitol was so good. The slogan "one ounce, one film, use once" summed it up. Simple and easy.
 
I've just looked at the first link, Chris. Interesting that in 2009 a poster can say that Kodak say nothing about HC 110 minimum quantity, whereas in 2005 a poster stated the opposite, citing the HC 110 instructions. Did this info vanish?
 
We could I presume test it if someone has a densitometer. And HC 110...
 
To those using fast developers/high concentrations, such as Ilfotec HC; bear in mind that such chemicals are primarily designed for speed and convenience, over image quality. During my time at college, I learned that such chemicals weren't actually all that good, if you were at all bothered with ultimate image quality from your negs. Even at 1+31 dilution, HC wasn't great. but then I read up on the subject, and learned that reducing the concentration, and extending the development time; gave much better results; improved tonal range, better acuity?sharpness, and just a nice overall 'look'. Doing so does increase the amount of grain you get, but personally I love that look. The problem with quick developers is that you don't have such control over development, and need to be quick when pouring out dev and pouring in stop etc. For eg; HC @ 1:11 @ 24ºC gives a dev time of just 55 seconds for HP% @400ISO. That's way too quick to be able to control development properly (such dilutions are used for lab developing more than 'home' devving). Even the more 'standard' dilution of 1:31 still only gives a time of 9'30", which isn't to bad, but still not great for IQ, I found. I progressed to better chemicals, such as ID-11,, which when mixed up to 1:1, give a much better developing time of 13 minutes, so a lot more leeway. The chemicals are working more gently, and the whole process being slowed down, really benefits the final result. I used a 1:3 dilution, at 20 minutes, which gave me superb results. Deeper blacks, proper nice white highlights, much better tonal range, greatly improved sharpness, and just a much nicer overall look to pictures printed up. Printing was a far easier process as a result, less faffing required to get those tones in across the image. For pushing film, I found Microphen to be excellent; HP5 @1600 ISO did require a 30+ minute or so dev time though! Ilford don't recommend using such dilutions and long times though, as it's harder to maintain constant temp in the tank, and you can suffer reciprocity failure (I think, my memory is hazy now), requiring the time to be extended further. Meh. It worked for me! But it is a matter of real trial and error.

My college used HC 1:31 cos it was cheap, and meant students weren't developing for so long, allowing more teaching to be possible. Understandable. But I'd encourage any keen home developer to look into the alchemy of developing film, because your photography can really benefit from this.

Oh; and one of the most important things I learned was: wash your film properly. None of this 3x30 agitations in the tank; let it sit in running water for at least 20 mins or so. Because if you actually want to still be able to print from those negs in 20+ years time, if you haven't washed them properly, they'll be terrible, as the emulsion will degrade quicker the less it's been washed. I've got properly washed negs that are really starting to degrade a bit now; the poorly washed ones are now mostly virtually unprintable.

If you care; take your time. Don't rush things.

Forgot to mention; extending development time also requires less agitation. So instead of agitating every 10, or 30 seconds, you can agitate every minute or even more. Again I can't remember the exact science, but increased agitation leads to denser negs, which can be harder to print for a full tonal range. Of course; you might want very contrast pictures. You could use a stronger solution, and increase the water temp. There are no real 'rules'. It's fun to experiment.
Thanks! Very helpful!

A quick question though - when you say that you let the film sit in a running water for 20min - how you do it? Taking the reel with film off the tank and place it in a containers or bowl with running water? Trying to get my head around before I develop my first film...
 
Thanks! Very helpful!

A quick question though - when you say that you let the film sit in a running water for 20min - how you do it? Taking the reel with film off the tank and place it in a containers or bowl with running water? Trying to get my head around before I develop my first film...

Well, I used a small bucket (something like a plastic ice cream tub is ideal) stand it in the bath or a sink, and then just run a short hose from the cold tap, into the bucket. Be careful to check the water's not too cold in winter. It doesn't have to be 20°C just for washing. Obvs a mixer tap is ideal if water is too cold. Then just run a moderate flow of water for 20 mins or so. For washing prints, I did the same, but used a plastic tub large enough for the prints, with holes drilled about 1" down from the top, to allow water to flow out without the prints flowing over the top of the bowl.
 
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