FILM IS NOT ANALOGUE!!!

antonroland

antonroland

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So, am I the only one who can give birth to a rabid cow when ignorami talk about analogue photography??

Rant on here if you agree.
 
Don't think I've ever heard anyone mention analogue photography. I'd have thought the only analogue bit of any camera would be the output straight off the sensor of a digital camera before it gets converted?
 
Perhaps you can help the ignorami by explaining why it isn't analogue or is that beneath you?
 
Film can generally be thought of as analog;

Also spelled analogue, describes a device or system that represents changing values as continuously variable physical quantities. A typical analog device is a clock in which the hands move continuously around the face. Such a clock is capable of indicating every possible time of day. In contrast, a digital clock is capable of representing only a finite number of times (every tenth of a second, for example). In general, humans experience the world analogically. Vision, for example, is an analog experience because we perceive infinitely smooth gradations of shapes and colors.
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from http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/A/analog.html

Digital cameras capture light in discrete values whereas film captures in infinitely variable quantities - it is a bit like the difference between less and fewer, one is in defined quantities and the other is a more a sense of.

Mike
 
I'd think that film was analogue as there is no disruption to the light waves.
 
Kev M said:
Perhaps you can help the ignorami by explaining why it isn't analogue or is that beneath you?
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I could, but then, Mike weeks did it so eloquently already...;)
 
Examples of ANALOGUE

1. a modern analog to what happened before
2. the synthetic analog of a chemical found in a tropical tree
3. a meat analogue such as tofu

From here:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analogue.

As I interpret those, the analogue version must be the newer incarnation and not the original...
 
Depends on how you discribe 'analogue'. You can find lots of things refering to 'analouge signal' of this is one definition:

An analog or analogue signal is any continuous signal for which the time varying feature (variable) of the signal is a representation of some other time varying quantity, i.e., analogous to another time varying signal. It differs from a digital signal in terms of small fluctuations in the signal which are meaningful. Analog is usually thought of in an electrical context; however, mechanical, pneumatic, hydraulic, and other systems may also convey analog signals.

So if you follow the above it would mean that digital cameras are 'analogue'.

However you can also find others whihc say it is simple refering to things that are old, like vinyl records or cameras.

Than again you can also find things like:

Analog photography is a term for photography using a progressively changing recording medium, which may be based either on a chemical process (e.g., photographic film or plate) or electronic means (e.g., using a vidicon or CCD sensor).

Which refers to both.

To me Analogue is a digital signal and as film is chemical then Analogue photography is incorrect terminology to use.

Thats my 2cents worth anyway
 
antonroland said:
Examples of ANALOGUE

1. a modern analog to what happened before
2. the synthetic analog of a chemical found in a tropical tree
3. a meat analogue such as tofu

From here:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analogue.

As I interpret those, the analogue version must be the newer incarnation and not the original...
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Except that you are referring to the common parlance use of analogue and not the scientific use, as outlined in Mike's post.
 
erm dunno how it applies to photography (except for light/colours are sine waves) but for the comparison of music I thought "analogue" was about sound sine waves and digital sound was square waves.
 
DemiLion said:
Except that you are referring to the common parlance use of analogue and not the scientific use, as outlined in Mike's post.
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And the two are mutually exclusive?
 
TBH, in all likelihood, it probably goes back to when mobile phones went from analogue to digital. Some people assume that, if it's now digital, it must have been analogue before.

Must say though, I've never heard it called analogue photography.
 
antonroland said:
Examples of ANALOGUE

1. a modern analog to what happened before
2. the synthetic analog of a chemical found in a tropical tree
3. a meat analogue such as tofu

From here:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analogue.

As I interpret those, the analogue version must be the newer incarnation and not the original...
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That lInk's for the noun. The defInItIon for the adjectIve's what we need here. And that works fIne!
 
offline said:
That lInk's for the noun. The defInItIon for the adjectIve's what we need here. And that works fIne!
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Errrmmmmmmmhhhh, NO.

But, hey, if it works for you...
 
fabs said:
TBH, in all likelihood, it probably goes back to when mobile phones went from analogue to digital. Some people assume that, if it's now digital, it must have been analogue before.

Must say though, I've never heard it called analogue photography.
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Can live with that theory...
 
****Must say though, I've never heard it called analogue photography.****

Well I've used analogue a few times to differentiate film cameras/lenses from digital gear....even if not technically correct or not, why not use analogue as slang for film gear, film shots etc as English is always changing anyway.
 
an analogue datastream will have the data carried in a form where it can have a variable value and be represented by a variable point on the y axis of a graph (the x axis usually being time). So for music, the waveform of the music is represented more or less exactly by the waveform of the transmitted data.

a digital datastream will simply contain a stream of data in the form of points which are either 0 or 1, yes or no, black or white. At some point that stream of ones and zeros will need converting into an analogue form by some flavour of ADC before we can relate it to music or picture or whatever.

Simple so far, however if we get into the realms of quantum physics, the boundaries are much less clear.

Film can be viewed as both analogue and digital. Digital because the picture is captured as a series of dots or grains, which we then see as an integrated smooth whole, analogue because each dot can receive a signal of different intensity and give a directly proportional chemical reaction.

See, simple!
 
excalibur2 said:
****Must say though, I've never heard it called analogue photography.****

Well I've used analogue a few times to differentiate film cameras/lenses from digital gear....even if not technically correct or not, why not use analogue as slang for film gear, film shots etc as English is always changing anyway.
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So words which have a descriptive meaning are devalued over time because you want to apply them in an incorrect context?
 
custodian said:
So words which have a descriptive meaning are devalued over time because you want to apply them in an incorrect context?
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That's what happens anyway and you can't stop it, and if enough people use a corrupt word it will be just be added to OED to the other 1-2 million words used in the English language.
 
custodian said:
an analogue datastream will have the data carried in a form where it can have a variable value and be represented by a variable point on the y axis of a graph (the x axis usually being time). So for music, the waveform of the music is represented more or less exactly by the waveform of the transmitted data.

a digital datastream will simply contain a stream of data in the form of points which are either 0 or 1, yes or no, black or white. At some point that stream of ones and zeros will need converting into an analogue form by some flavour of ADC before we can relate it to music or picture or whatever.

Simple so far, however if we get into the realms of quantum physics, the boundaries are much less clear.

Film can be viewed as both analogue and digital. Digital because the picture is captured as a series of dots or grains, which we then see as an integrated smooth whole, analogue because each dot can receive a signal of different intensity and give a directly proportional chemical reaction.

See, simple!
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You make my head hurt!:D
 
excalibur2 said:
That's what happens anyway and you can't stop it, and if enough people use a corrupt word it will be just be added to OED to the other 1-2 million words used in the English language.
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That is correct but certainly we should not be trying to accelerate that process. We have a perfectly good word to describe film. The word is "film". Why do you need to give it a new lable?
 
custodian said:
That is correct but certainly we should not be trying to accelerate that process. We have a perfectly good word to describe film. The word is "film". Why do you need to give it a new lable?
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THANK YOU!!

(y)(y)(y)
 
IMO the terms relate to the kit not the medium - hence a film camera is by definition analogue - it has moving parts. This means digital slr's are also analogue while the basic digital cameras are just that - digital. That's digital with a little d, remember most film these days is digitised but does not become "digital" because of that - as I said it's the kit that gets the tag not the medium.
 
antonroland said:
Errrmmmmmmmhhhh, NO.

But, hey, if it works for you...
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Errrmmmmmmmhhhh, yes. It does work for me.

Definition 2 off of this page is what we need: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analog
(we just have to live with the adjective being spelt one way in certain English speaking areas and the noun sometimes having variations in spelling!

Analogue photography isn't a pretty term, but seems to be the preferred version lately. APUG and the lomographic society both seem to be happy with it.

I'd prefer film photography, but in general conversation that seems to get confused with cine/video work (there always seems to be cine cameras and video cameras listed in the film photography section of *bay).
 
Film 'counts' photons. Photons are discrete entities. Therefore 'Film' is not analogue as you can't have half a photon capture, it's either caught or not. However, because an exposure would capture billions of photons 'Film' is effectively an analogue recording medium.
 
custodian said:
That is correct but certainly we should not be trying to accelerate that process. We have a perfectly good word to describe film. The word is "film". Why do you need to give it a new lable?
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I think you will find that the correct word is "fillum":D

Andy
 
excalibur2 said:
:LOL: It's not only me do a search in google e.g. Film was never called analog until digital cameras came on the scene.

http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia_term/0,2542,t=analog+film&i=37748,00.asp
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Analog Computers weren't called analog either till digital ones came along ... no need to differentiate !

Analog - to me - means a continuously/infinately variable value. as opposed to digital, which has to have a specific value to be handled in a digital data stream - or recorded as such.

therefore film will record light information in an analog way.

You dont get posterization in a film image !
 
Could film be described as "Non-Linear" ?
Pretty much all variables whilst accepting there are limitations with emulsions as well.
 
Digital camera sensors store light data in a finite granularity, depending on bit-depth. Film, for all intents and purposes, has infinite granularity, which leads to the perfectly reasonable description of film photography as 'Analogue'. Can't say it's a phrase I've heard often, but it's clear, descriptive, and easy to understand.
 
****Analog Computers weren't called analog either till digital ones came along ... no need to differentiate !***

I've seen similar arguments regarding lenses i.e. lenses are lenses and it doesn't matter if they are made for old film cameras or digital. But if modern lenses are designed esp for digital cameras, then they are "digital" lenses, and to me it seems sensible to differentiate and say:- analogue or film lenses and digital lenses.
 
excalibur2 said:
****Analog Computers weren't called analog either till digital ones came along ... no need to differentiate !***

I've seen similar arguments regarding lenses i.e. lenses are lenses and it doesn't matter if they are made for old film cameras or digital. But if modern lenses are designed esp for digital cameras, then they are "digital" lenses, and to me it seems sensible to differentiate and say:- analogue or film lenses and digital lenses.
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Sorry, I meant to say, before digital, there was no need to differentiate (y)
 
Woodsy said:
What exactly do you mean by non-linear?
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Generalisation really.
Consider linear being straight and direct (I got the term whenI done an amateur radio course)
Therefore making non linear taking many variables (Hues and shades)
Just my take
 
Woodsy said:
What exactly do you mean by non-linear?
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One thing I'd say was non-linear about film is the "toe" and "shoulder" in the response curve of negative stock when it comes to extreme under and over exposure - hence why over-exposed highlights look a little better on film than digital - they sort of fade out, rather than just a harsh edged "that's it i'm at 255,255,255" white line. Hence, even though film has (arguably) a lower dynamic range than the better digital sensors, it still, in the right hands, and with the right treatment, can give digital a run for its money.

The other classic non-linearity is Reciprocity failure at long exposure times (dependent again on film stock :shrug:)
 
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