Film mentality on a Digital....

HappySnappy1977

HappySnappy1977

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Name
Dean
Edit My Images
Yes
Strange title I know but bear with me!!

I used to shoot film years ago and even though I got the film for more or less free (my father worked for Kodak so he got loads of "out of date" film) you still got into a mentality of thinking about every shot you took as if you only had 36 exposures you had to make every shot count as if you messed one up not only had you wasted one of your 36 but you also had to pay to process a dud.

It's been well documented on these and other forums that this "thought process" has been lost with the digital age and the fact that you can just "click away" without a care in the world and simply delete if your not happy.

I do sometimes think that means we can lose what could be a good picture because we were simply too blasé about things.

The other day I was having a clear out and found an old 1GB SDHC card and without thinking I popped it into my camera bag. Went out and did a little night time photography on Tuesday and popped the card into my camera.

38 exposures (RAW)!

Having so few chances really made me think about the composition of my shots and I ended up with a haul of just 28 pics but pretty much every one was a keeper!

Definitely something to do once in a while (for me anyhow!) if only to remind yourself what it was like in the good old days and make you think twice before you miss the opportunity of a great shot by not thinking about it enough!

Dean
 
I shot film for decades and had to use it sparingly because of the cost.
Some of that habit has followed me into to digital, but I also have another motive for trying to capture what I want with as few shots as possible. That is simply, that I want to spend as little time as possible in front of a pc wading through loads of images that are discarded.
 
arclight said:
That is simply, that I want to spend as little time as possible in front of a pc wading through loads of images that are discarded.
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My primary motivation for getting it right in as few shots as possible! :thumbs:
 
I certainly had a certain reluctance to shoot in my early digital days, and in one sense found it hard to shoot with abandon. I like to think I have the balance about right., but agree I don't want to have to wade through a load of duds and that includes multiples and I rarely fire of more than three shots on continuous and more often than not have the camera set at the slower rate rather than the high speed 8fps.
 
I used those throwaway camera when I was very little. But being very little I didn't really conserve film. I know that when I started shooting I'd take 20 shots of the same thing to make sure it was right. Now a days, unless time is of the essence, I stop and check everything out to make sure that I shouldn't be standing 200 metres down the beach or underneath that overhang or whatever.

The thing that I think has helped me most is that instead of just going, thats interesting, SNAP I'm instead starting to follow the That's interesting. What's interesting about it? How can I show that interesting thing off best? Basically, taking less photos now means I take better photos.
 
I know exactly what you mean. I held out against digital longer than most - I was still using Kodachrome as late as 2007 (RIP :'( ), but went digital the year after. I was insistent on going full-frame, to preserve the 35mm aesthetic - my first DSLR was a Canon 5D, and I'm now on the mk II. I don't think I'd ever want to use a crop DSLR - I've got used to lenses behaving as they would on a 35mm film SLR, and I like the film-like image quality that FF sensors give.

The fact that the 5D mk II creates such large raw files makes it easier to stay in the 'film mentality' and think before pressing the button. Snapping away would fill up even a 8gb card pretty quickly. I use 4gb cards, which will hold around 2 film rolls worth of pics.

There are some aspects of digital that I love - being able to review each shot for exposure, framing etc., changing the ISO on a per-frame basis and shooting at ultra-high ISOs with only minimal grain are things I could only dream of back in my film days :)

A.
 
I've yet to cross the great divide into digital photography, however my son did buy me a scanner a few years ago. If I need to send an image its just a case of copying and sending, easier than sending by post I suppose. As for a digital camera, that would take away everything I enjoy about photography.

PS parsimonious I've looked it up and not really any the wiser, great word though!
 
I'm ashamed to admit even tho I shot with film for years when I got my first digital camera, a 350D I got carried away with the shutter button :D
there was no harm done, the 350D still works fine and I still use it sometimes
I have learnt to think about each shot now tho :)
Pete
 
I agree with your sentiments, but even with a 1Gb card and only 38 shots, it's still possible to delete a dud and free up space for another shot, thereby negating some of the constraints thrust upon you when using film
 
Ed Sutton said:
It is a good exercise now and then. As is using just one, fixed focal length lens.
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why is it. maybe you should use a horse to get around on or not use a fridge as a good exercise in how life used to be.
 
artyman said:
Using a horse is a bit like driving a car, but someone else has the controls :D
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A horse costs more to run than a car (I speak from experience :'(), and they only come as an 'open top' version. Possibly why the car is more popular :)
 
I'll turn this one round and say from my experience I am now only presenting a few photographs for people to look at. Where when I was using film every photo got shown, good bad or indifferent. Mainly I suppose because they were nearly always initially just in the 24/36 presentation folders.

I agree I am taking more photographs, but a lot of them are just for me.
 
I use a 1gb card for exactly that reason- sometimes I think using my 1dmk3 with a tiny card on silent shutter mode in the bone dry with a prime lens is overkill :lol:

I regularly take my camera out but keep it in the bag and don't bother taking it out unless there is something really worth the effort

and often I go to a location with no more than my iphone and a pencil, take some snaps on the phone, sketch things out- and then revisit when I know the shot I want- realise the light isn't right, go home, and come back another day

i've only got 10k shutter actuations- split between 3 DSLR's

although sometimes I need the confidence of a few shots to get me going- when I shoot film often I never click the shutter because with me I often need a few 'test' shots to check that what i'm imagining in my head correlates with the image i'm getting out the camera




POAH said:
why is it. maybe you should use a horse to get around on or not use a fridge as a good exercise in how life used to be.
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I think the point here is that using a single lens helps you to anticipate shots- so after you master a particular lens you can just step up to where you know you need to be, put the camera to your eye and know what's going to be in the viewfinder and know how much depth of field every aperture will give you. When you shoot many lenses you often find yourself missing the shot because you have to look, then move, look, move, and finally take the shot
it's like a sniper rifle- to hit first time you have to know how to compensate for distance and wind

and obviously taking more time to study your subject and finding the best way to render it is likely to produce a better image than just taking a 100 shots and picking the best at home. The trick is to be able to know in the field all the things you'll say "I wish I had done this" when you get home and see the images

and yes I know I might have just contradicted myself by saying "shoot quicker" and "shoot slower"


The thing that I think has helped me most is that instead of just going, thats interesting, SNAP I'm instead starting to follow the That's interesting. What's interesting about it? How can I show that interesting thing off best? Basically, taking less photos now means I take better photos.
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this, basically
 
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:D

Back on topic...

The reason I find restricting my options is good is that it forces me to change the way I look and see, the way I operate. It stimulates creativity rather than hinders it because you have to use your brain more.

Do what you always do and you'll get the results you always get.
 
Hmmm, interesting thread. I always wanted an SLR but it wasn't until I was old enough to afford one that I found that film was dead and digital was all the rage. So although I've grown up with film I've only ever used digital if that makes sense.

I did the test when I was soon into SLR ownership - 256mb CF card, tape across the rear screen and 36 shots as jpegs. I think I kept about 3 shots. I tried the film approach at an airshow as well, stuck the focus to infinity and selectively shot and hoped - ended up with about 1 in 30 keepers. Now, using my new tactics of spraying and a lot of preying and planning my shots a bit more, I can fill a 4gb card at an airshow with raws and have about 90% as good useable images. I still try and get artistic shots, I still fail a lot. I think I can honestly say that if that was film I would have had to sell up and find another hobby due to cost.
 
I think I'm in the wrong thread, I tend to always carry a film and a digital camera and often come home having shot more film than digital.
 
I started on film and then shot with both for a while, the film frugality carried over a bit although its definitely weakened in recent years.

I think trying to get the photo exactly as you imagined it in as few shots of possible is always admirable, both from the practical point of view of not having to wade through as much crap in PP afterwards, but also because lots of subjects only hang around long enough for you to take one or two shots.
 
I like digital for the exact opposite reasons. I can take lots of shots of my two boys with a zoom and not move from one spot. I'm still going to choose the right aperture to get the required DOF but not have to worry about running out of film.

if I'm taking a landscape or shooting a car then I take my time this is not a throw back to film but wanting to get it right. digital allows you to do this without any cost. I'm all for using primes for thin DOF but not everything needs waiffer thin DOF.

there is nothing wrong with machine gunning or just taking one shot.
 
I have only recently got into photography as a hobby, and have started looking at film camera options, with a prime lens, for shooting now and then.

I think I just want to give myself a bit of discipline and maybe help me learn with consequences, and also have something physical to take to a shop and have developed

But then I posted the idea on avforums, and someone pointed out i could just put a 1gb card in my 20d and tape up the screen. I realised I didn't really have a good reason to go to film, since i've never used it. I'm stuck in my own era, might as well make the most of it.
 
Still tend to shoot on single frame mode,but glad i dont have the massive film bill i used to have :eek:.

But still got a couple of films cameras,like to shoot film every now and then :)
 
I started 'proper' photography with a Kodak 120 something or other when I was a kid, so I only had 12 images/roll. Had to pay for the film myself, out of pocket money, although I did my own D & P. 36 images/roll seemed like a lot when I moved to to 35mm a few years later.

I don't think in film terms now, as a rule, but I don't take a lot of images anyway. We spent four days in Rome/Pompeii in January and took about 20 photographs. That was plenty, and gave me everything I wanted.
 
I'm afraid these kinds of debates are similar to the "any form of editing is wrong" debates and as futile.

There is a vast difference between digital and film and yes, film had its place but that era is already long gone.

The sheer convenience of digital photography meant that was inevitable as is the simple fact that each image we now take is FREE!

The idea that we should restrict the number of pics we take for the outmouded idea that "it was what we did in the film era" is, as far as I'm concerend anyway, stupid.

When I take pictures I take LOTS - why? - because they're FREE people - they are FREE!

Restricting the number of pics to me means restricting your opportunities to get a good pic, and frankly the idea of having 4 days in Rome and coming back with 20 pics is truly incredible to me - might just as well not bother to take a camera and just buy a few postcards.

Almost every time I go out I take at least 100-200 shots then weed out the bad ones at home.

And I certainly end up with at least a 50-60% keeper rate on general pics and about a 20% rate on macro shots (in that case bad ones are due to OOF etc and even then I will have at least 1 good one of the same shot precisely BECAUSE I shoot a lot).

And even the ones that don't work are useful in as much as I can often see why they don't work and make a note to shoot that one again with a different viewpoint etc.

And stating that you should restrict yourself because of large file sizes is, let's face it, sheer nonsense - especially in these days of TB hard drives, DVD blanks etc.

I have a 1Ds Mk 11 which produces 97Mb TIFF files for every pic taken (I shoot in JPEG but convert to TIFF for editing) but using Fast Picture Viewer I can easily sort 200 files into keepers and non-keepers in about 10 mins reducing the amount of work I have to do and, eventually, the storage space.

And if I'm shooting my family indoors and using, say 3200 ISO, they can easily be batch processed in Neat Image while I have a coffee or watch a film or, if there's a real lot, just go to bed.

So I have no problems at all in shooting lots and lots of pictures in one go because for me, and for most of the world I believe, that's one of the greatest advantages of Digital Photography.

.
 
MartynK said:
I don't think in film terms now, as a rule, but I don't take a lot of images anyway. We spent four days in Rome/Pompeii in January and took about 20 photographs. That was plenty, and gave me everything I wanted.
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Quality over quantity, well said that man ;).
 
:eek:Wow!!:eek:

I didn't think me posting something which I felt was a good exercise to do now and again would cause so much debate :)

Just to re-iterate, I by no means intend to go out every time I take photo's and only shoot with a 1gb card!

I went out to the Cambridge Christmas Lights turn on yesterday and filled 1 16gb card and half flied 1 8gb. Will I keep all the images - No!! Will I have more "keepers" that I would have had if I did not do this type of exercise - too early to tell but I'd like to think so!

Basically somebody else hit the nail on the head when they said about this exercise helping me out creatively. I found that by restricting myself (I did have 2 16gb cards in my bag I COULD have used!) to just the 38 exposures I really had to think about my shots and also that I learnt more from the couple of shots that didn't work than I would have from say 80-100 non keepers from a 16gb card as I had more time to look at those images PP and work out what went wrong and why.

I walked away with 26 "keepers" and ended up completely changing my ideas for the exhibition I was taking the pics for because suddenly I found my "creative Juices" were flowing more freely! This meant less PP for things I'd done wrong actually taking the pics technically but more because I found myself thinking not just about the picture but also about what I could do with the little ambient light I had around me (and in my camera bag via a little light painting) in PP creatively.

In summery - I'm not saying that I'm going to go back to basics forever or that all things digital are evil but that as an exercise now and again I think it will help me both creatively and technically and thought I'd share that in the hope that it might help somebody else in the future.

Dean
 
petersmart said:
And I certainly end up with at least a 50-60% keeper rate on general pics and about a 20% rate on macro shots (in that case bad ones are due to OOF etc and even then I will have at least 1 good one of the same shot precisely BECAUSE I shoot a lot).
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It's not about shooting less, it's about adopting higher standards as you're shooting - and having a limit imposed upon you helps you to achieve this, you're tempering the snap happy snapshooter in you. Once you know what to look for in a shot, then whack that 32gb card in. Of course, there are times where more shots = better shots, but 50-60% should be more like 0-25%. ;)
 
A good comparison is that of a marksman, does he hone his skills to kill his prey with one precision shot. Or, does he use a machine gun knowing that out of 100 rounds, one of those rounds will be the perfect shot? (which it may well be). Both arguments have their merits and achieve pretty much the same result. It's down to the individual and how they wish to use their skills.
 
:thumbs: A similar argument of continuous shutter or just capture the single best moment.

With film, even correctly exposed, if the subject matter is dull and lifeless so will a photogragh of it. Digital hasn't changed that fact, and although I did find myself gathering shots in abunbemce when I first when digi I soon learnt that although I can rescue and manipulate some 'pop' back into the dull and mundane, inevitably the subject, moment and light of a photograph is still king.

Yes its great not to have any restrictions on the amount I can shoot, but its still the true oportunites of subject matter and/or light that account for my image count.
 
I might as well put myself forward as an oddball that moved from digital to film. I've got into film photography not because of wanting to get into the film mentality, but just because I don't want to take so many pictures and find film cameras more fun. I currently use my digital camera as a light metre, taking a dozen or so shots, and then using my film camera to make two exposures before going home.

I have never really liked the idea of having "keepers", instead I prefer to have "the one" - one photo that I can show to friends and enjoy as the reward for my efforts. If I were to go on holiday to Rome, I could think of no better way to ruin the holiday than to make it a photo trip :lol:. The last time I took my DSLR camera on holiday was to Tokyo, I took took less than than 20 photos (luckily for the sake of memories my girlfriend averaged about 400 snaps a day:)).I guess if I was into wild life or sports then it would be madness to only come back home with a few photos, but I prefer landscapes/cityscapes and enjoy searching out the ideal location, waiting weeks for the right weather and then loitering whilst the sun sets. I find it calming, and try to avoid the frenzy I see in others in the build up to a sunset. There is something to be said for taking less photos,not just for being disciplined in what you snap but for enjoying the photo whilst you are actually taking it.

This is what I had been doing for a while, until it got to the point where I noticed I was just taking photos to fill time whilst waiting for the right light. It is possible to replicate the film mentality when shooting digitally, but personally I find it too hard to avoid the temptation of tinkering. I figured that getting a large format camera would be make the experience more fun, and so far I seem to pleased with my move into film. Now whilst I wait for the golden hour (about 4 minutes in HK) I can play with the camera's movements, hide under the dark cloth or talk to the numerous passersby who are interested in what I'm doing. And when the moment comes I click the the cable release. The thought process requires more time but I still leave earlier than before as I'm not filling my memory card full of photos I have no intention of doing anything with other than keeping. Also the image quality is stunning, or at least it should be with more practice:lol:.
 
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you can have high standards and still shoot lots - benifit of digital you can delete the crap ;)

FruitFlakes said:
It's not about shooting less, it's about adopting higher standards as you're shooting - and having a limit imposed upon you helps you to achieve this, you're tempering the snap happy snapshooter in you. Once you know what to look for in a shot, then whack that 32gb card in. Of course, there are times where more shots = better shots, but 50-60% should be more like 0-25%. ;)
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