First film shooting for years...

[angstmann]

I'd pretty much say I was brand new to film. Anything I shot on film in the past was probably when I was a child, and didn't have any concept about real photography at all. Well, I just got myself fairly nice-ish Petri 7s rangefinder on 'the bay' the other day and despite it having a slightly temperamental shutter and a fairly dim rangefinder patch, I think I got a bargain (@ £8).

Anyway, I took it out for the first time today, typically on the sunniest day we've had for a long time! Like I said, I'm new to film, and foolishly have it loaded with Tri-X (ISO 400). On a sunny day, that's obviously a bad thing! (Will try HP4 next time).

To get to the point - the Petri has a maximum shutter speed of 1/500 and in some situations I was setting my aperture to f/16 and shutter speed to 1/500 and the meter was still suggesting a fairly large over-exposure. I just wondered if there was any way to counteract this/get round this, or do I just really need to avoid shooting ISO 400 film in those conditions?

Apologies for the newbie nature of the question! Cheers!

 

[SparkUK]

Neutral density or ND filters...... Like sunglasses for your camera.

 

[angstmann]

Ah yes. I assumed a filter might do the job. Is that the only option though... I'm thinking, is there not some way to play with the ISO settings of the camera, that would somehow force it to underexpose a bit.. and then mess with it during processing.... ? Remember reading something about that... or am I just getting my wires crossed?

 

[Ambermile]

Hmm. I would say that 1/500th with f/16 on a sunny day using 400 ISO is about right to be honest... unless you were at the beach or somewhere similarly bright?

 

[SparkUK]

Hmm. I would say that 1/500th with f/16 on a sunny day using 400 ISO is about right to be honest... unless you were at the beach or somewhere similarly bright?

Yeah that's not a million miles off.......

You can't tinker with the ISO once you've loaded a film, all you can do it higher F number, shorter shutter speed or use a filter to effectively make it darker... the ND filters make it darker but without altering the colour cast.

 

[angstmann]

Hmm. I would say that 1/500th with f/16 on a sunny day using 400 ISO is about right to be honest... unless you were at the beach or somewhere similarly bright?

No I was just out and about round town, built up area, etc. Could be an over-active meter or something! Actually, I was applying the Sunny 16 rule as a bit of a guide, which was why I initially set it to f/16 and 1/500 - I guess I'll wait and see how they turn out then.

 

[angstmann]

Yeah that's not a million miles off.......

You can't tinker with the ISO once you've loaded a film, all you can do it higher F number, shorter shutter speed or use a filter to effectively make it darker... the ND filters make it darker but without altering the colour cast.

Gotcha, thanks for that. So I guess sometimes a maximum shutter speed of 1/500 is a bit of a limitation would you say?

 

[CT]

Ah yes. I assumed a filter might do the job. Is that the only option though... I'm thinking, is there not some way to play with the ISO settings of the camera, that would somehow force it to underexpose a bit.. and then mess with it during processing.... ? Remember reading something about that... or am I just getting my wires crossed?

You've pretty much got it - you can underexpose the film by rating the ISO higher than it is and then adjusting the processing to compensate - usually longer development times and/or higher temperatures. Usually referred to as push processing. If you send the film out for developing you'll have to include a note of the amount of underexposure and the fact you want it push processing.

No free lunches though - there's usually a loss of image quality to some degree as the price to be paid.

 

[angstmann]

You've pretty much got it - you can underexpose the film by rating the ISO higher than it is and then adjusting the processing to compensate - usually longer development times and/or higher temperatures. Usually referred to as push processing. If you send the film out for developing you'll have to include a note of the amount of underexposure and the fact you want it push processing.

No free lunches though - there's usually a loss of image quality to some degree as the price to be paid.

Thanks CT, that clarifies a lot. Think I should probably walk before I start running to be honest! I've read so much info over the last few weeks, I should try and let some of it sink in before I think about trying anything fancy.

So, I'm assuming using a slower film would have made a significant difference on a sunny day when a camera has a maximum shutter speed of 1/500...?

 

[CT]

Thanks CT, that clarifies a lot. Think I should probably walk before I start running to be honest! I've read so much info over the last few weeks, I should try and let some of it sink in before I think about trying anything fancy.

So, I'm assuming using a slower film would have made a significant difference on a sunny day when a camera has a maximum shutter speed of 1/500...?

100 or 200 ISO should be OK for most daylight stuff without your 1/500th limit hampering you at all. You tend to get finer grain too the lower the ISO ( the film equivalent of digital noise)

1/500th is a common max shutter speed with a lot of older cameras - even pro medium format ones, so you do need to choose your film speed carefully.

 

[angstmann]

100 or 200 ISO should be OK for most daylight stuff without your 1/500th limit hampering you at all. You tend to get finer grain too the lower the ISO ( the film equivalent of digital noise)

1/500th is a common max shutter speed with a lot of older cameras - even pro medium format ones, so you do need to choose your film speed carefully.

Excellent. Thanks for all your help/suggestions. It all makes sense with hindsight. ISO choice will obviously be much more important in film photography as there's no way of changing it on the fly like with digital - I guess thats why I've read so many film photographers having multiple cameras loaded with different film types, for different situations/conditions.

All sinking in now. Ta!

 

[alistair.o]

Hi,

1/500th is a great max speed. As has been said choose your films carefully and you will have no problem.

I have had great fun recently using a serviced Asahi Pentax S1a; this also has a max speed of 1/500th. I used Agfa APX 100 monochrome in it and it is lovely. Here is a link to a thread which has many pictures from all round the world taken with an Asahi Pentax S1a (1960/61)

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-film-slr-discussion/45892-sightseeing-screwmount.html

Hope this helps.

 

[angstmann]

Hi,

1/500th is a great max speed. As has been said choose your films carefully and you will have no problem.

I have had great fun recently using a serviced Asahi Pentax S1a; this also has a max speed of 1/500th. I used Agfa APX 100 monochrome in it and it is lovely. Here is a link to a thread which has many pictures from all round the world taken with an Asahi Pentax S1a (1960/61)

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-film-slr-discussion/45892-sightseeing-screwmount.html

Hope this helps.

Thanks very much, it does help. So, ISO 400 film is best for what conditions...? I presume we're talking cloudy/overcast, rather than shooting at dusk/night?

 

[joxby]

Thanks very much, it does help. So, ISO 400 film is best for what conditions...? I presume we're talking cloudy/overcast, rather than shooting at dusk/night?

400 is general purpose, it overlaps several areas depending on conditions.
If you expect bright and sunny 100 is a good choice, but 400 could be if it isn't too bright or your subject isn't.

There is no cover all film, just recommendations and opinions, I recommend 3200 for inside churches..
You won't be shooting late dusk/night without flash or a tripod, unless you're gonna push the film, forget about digital convenience, get involved in something more challenging...

 

[angstmann]

400 is general purpose, it overlaps several areas depending on conditions.
If you expect bright and sunny 100 is a good choice, but 400 could be if it isn't too bright or your subject isn't.

There is no cover all film, just recommendations and opinions, I recommend 3200 for inside churches..
You won't be shooting late dusk/night without flash or a tripod, unless you're gonna push the film, forget about digital convenience, get involved in something more challenging...

Some good info, thanks. I love digital for experimentation, but I'm also loving the challenge of film and how it makes you think a lot more before you press the shutter. I fully expect my first set of shots to be a disaster, but thats all part of the learning process for me

 

[Ambermile]

One of it's many benefits is the slowing down necessary to allow your thought processes to come up with something similar to what the digital cameras do instantly... and in that time you get a better feeling for the shot along with a wider understanding of the media.



Arthur - now thinking that sounds a bit pompous

 

[angstmann]

One of it's many benefits is the slowing down necessary to allow your thought processes to come up with something similar to what the digital cameras do instantly... and in that time you get a better feeling for the shot along with a wider understanding of the media.



Arthur - now thinking that sounds a bit pompous

Not at all Arthur, sounds perfectly fine to me, and I agree. I am the type of person who needs to think carefully and evaluate things before I do them, so film photography sounds like a natural fit! Until things become second nature I will be forced into taking my time anyway Cheers.

 

[Ambermile]

Maybe not pompous then, but a bit "on yer high horse" type of thing

At least you read the intent first though and got the meaning even if my attempt at making a point was so ... tacky

 

[donut]

on a really sunny day where you are struggling with ( too ) fast shutter speeds you would lower the films iso rating ,,,,set the iso 400 at iso 200 and pull the film by one stop .

 

[s162216]

You've pretty much got it - you can underexpose the film by rating the ISO higher than it is and then adjusting the processing to compensate - usually longer development times and/or higher temperatures. Usually referred to as push processing. If you send the film out for developing you'll have to include a note of the amount of underexposure and the fact you want it push processing.

No free lunches though - there's usually a loss of image quality to some degree as the price to be paid.

Surely thats the wrong way around? If you want to use a wider aperture/slower shutter speed than what your getting with 400 ISO film then you would want to over expose the film by rating it at 200 or 100 and then pulling not pushing the film to compensate. You should not really do it more than 1 stop though when pulling. Your safe up to about 3 stops with pushing though depending on the film. Pushing and pulling should be done only with slide or black and white film really, colour neg is quite unpredictable with it.

Pushing film decreases resolution and increases grain and contrast whilst pulling does the opposite, more resolution, lower grain and contrast.

 

[Musicman]

400 is general purpose, it overlaps several areas depending on conditions.

I still think of 400 ASA film as 'fast' for low light use. I guess I must be showing my age or something

If you expect bright and sunny 100 is a good choice, but 400 could be if it isn't too bright or your subject isn't.

So use ISO 100 if you get an opportunity to take a photo of Stephen Hawking?

 

[angstmann]

Thanks everyone for the help and enlightenment. Its nice and overcast today, so hopefully more suitable to the ISO 400 film thats currently in the camera.

 

[Ambermile]

How did it go then?

 

[angstmann]

So far so good. I'm about 3/4 of the way through the film - but then we moved house, and amongst the chaos, I haven't got round to finishing it yet... hopefully soon I'll finish it and then look at getting hold of the things I need to develop it at home.