First foray into Lightroom Classic - mystery?

gramps

gramps

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So I took up the £58 offer on Amazon and installed LRC - fine, and I can import photos.
However all of my RAW photos, when in the Import panel of LRC, are shown in B&W - (I shoot in RAW only, but often set a B&W profile purely for exposure/light/shadow information in VF or LCD).
I have checked the 'Preferences Global' setting and it is set to import RAW files as 'Adobe Color' NOT 'Camera Settings' - what am I missing, or is it a bug?
TIA. :)
 
gramps said:
So I took up the £58 offer on Amazon and installed LRC - fine, and I can import photos.
However all of my RAW photos, when in the Import panel of LRC, are shown in B&W - (I shoot in RAW only, but often set a B&W profile purely for exposure/light/shadow information in VF or LCD).
I have checked the 'Preferences Global' setting and it is set to import RAW files as 'Adobe Color' NOT 'Camera Settings' - what am I missing, or is it a bug?
TIA. :)
Click to expand...

It may be that the jpg preview is what you're seeing in the import panel, and when you open the RAW it will show in colour. This is normal behaviour, and I usually first see the image with the camera settings applied to the jpg, but obviously not the RAW.
 
ancient_mariner said:
It may be that the jpg preview is what you're seeing in the import panel, and when you open the RAW it will show in colour. This is normal behaviour, and I usually first see the image with the camera settings applied to the jpg, but obviously not the RAW.
Click to expand...
I can't remember the exact phrase but when displaying imported files you can either have them stack if the file name is identical except DNG JPG or you can display both DNG and JPG at the same time.

Not a very good explanation I am afraid as I only use LRC for cataloguing but did come across the same problem as OP
 
Thank you both. :)

ancient_mariner said:
It may be that the jpg preview is what you're seeing in the import panel, and when you open the RAW it will show in colour. This is normal behaviour, and I usually first see the image with the camera settings applied to the jpg, but obviously not the RAW.
Click to expand...

zx9 said:
I can't remember the exact phrase but when displaying imported files you can either have them stack if the file name is identical except DNG JPG or you can display both DNG and JPG at the same time.

Not a very good explanation I am afraid as I only use LRC for cataloguing but did come across the same problem as OP
Click to expand...

I don't shoot in jpg, the camera is set to record RAW (DNG) only and when they appear in the Import Panel they are shown as DNG, not jpg.
However as RAW files they display the camera profile for jpg and if I expand them they remain as B&W.
 
gramps said:
Ah, got to the seat of the problem ... importing them gets them in B&W but when I transfer to the Develop mode they show in colour.
Must persevere! :LOL:
Click to expand...

The camera saves a jog version of the image 'inside' the raw file automatically, so if you have the camera set to B&W this is what it shows you on the rear screen if you chimp after.
 
gramps said:
Ah, got to the seat of the problem ... importing them gets them in B&W but when I transfer to the Develop mode they show in colour.
Must persevere! :LOL:
Click to expand...
When you go into Develop you're working on the undelrying RAW, Library is using a JPEG preview which it must be taking the B&W :)
 
gramps said:
Ah, got to the seat of the problem ... importing them gets them in B&W but when I transfer to the Develop mode they show in colour.
Must persevere! :LOL:
Click to expand...
In the "File Handling" options on the right hand side of the import screen you probably have the "Embedded and Sidecar" build preview option setting selected.

Adobe added this at one time to speed up being able to begin culling by letting you view the embedded preview while it builds the proper preview in the background.

These are only shown in the library module and if you switch to the develop module you need to wait for the proper preview to be built.
 
myotis said:
In the "File Handling" options on the right hand side of the import screen you probably have the "Embedded and Sidecar" build preview option setting selected.
Click to expand...
I did,I will need to check this out more.
I was hoping that LRC would be quicker & easier than using PL5 & Affinity Photos but it doesn't seem to be for me, except for the Leica Q2M files where it opens monochrome RAW files and bypasses the need for Darktable.
Maybe i'll just use it for the monochrome files for the time being and get some practice in.
 
gramps said:
Ah, got to the seat of the problem ... importing them gets them in B&W but when I transfer to the Develop mode they show in colour.
Must persevere! :LOL:
Click to expand...

That....

vvvv

Hanley said:
When you go into Develop you're working on the undelrying RAW, Library is using a JPEG preview which it must be taking the B&W :)
Click to expand...

I'm not an expert, but if you do need a hand I can help with I can always pop around to help :) If I can obviously :ROFLMAO:
 
gramps said:
I did,I will need to check this out more.
I was hoping that LRC would be quicker & easier than using PL5 & Affinity Photos but it doesn't seem to be for me, except for the Leica Q2M files where it opens monochrome RAW files and bypasses the need for Darktable.
Maybe i'll just use it for the monochrome files for the time being and get some practice in.
Click to expand...
The LR AI denoise also works with Q2M files, Neither PL9 nor Capture One AI denoise works with Mono files. I don't know about the new AI denoise in Darktable, On1 denoise.

LR is very competent all in one solution, but I've never been able to get on with it. But like everything it takes time to learn how to use it. I've done many free and "paid for" courses on LR, and still find it awkward to use.

I'm not saying I''ll never change my setup (lack of money might force me) but I haven't come up with anything better than Capture One + Photoshop.

I suspect if I had to get rid of C1, I would go with Neofinder for cataloguing, and Bridge+ACR+Photoshop for all my processing. Failing that, I would probably do everything in Darkable + Neofinder.

But at the moment, I would rather spend my money on C1+PS than adding to, or replacing, my camera gear.
 
myotis said:
The LR AI denoise also works with Q2M files, Neither PL9 nor Capture One AI denoise works with Mono files. I don't know about the new AI denoise in Darktable, On1 denoise.

LR is very competent all in one solution, but I've never been able to get on with it. But like everything it takes time to learn how to use it. I've done many free and "paid for" courses on LR, and still find it awkward to use.

I'm not saying I''ll never change my setup (lack of money might force me) but I haven't come up with anything better than Capture One + Photoshop.

I suspect if I had to get rid of C1, I would go with Neofinder for cataloguing, and Bridge+ACR+Photoshop for all my processing. Failing that, I would probably do everything in Darkable + Neofinder.

But at the moment, I would rather spend my money on C1+PS than adding to, or replacing, my camera gear.
Click to expand...
Darktable denoise works on mono files okay.
My one real hate with LR is the need for a catalogue, but at least I can keep my photos exactly where I want them.
Where does the catalogue natively go?
 
gramps said:
Darktable denoise works on mono files okay.
My one real hate with LR is the need for a catalogue, but at least I can keep my photos exactly where I want them.
Where does the catalogue natively go?
Click to expand...
On a Mac it will default to 'Pictures' folder on your hard drive.

I have an external SSD connected to my Mac Studio and my Lightroom catalogue is stored on there, with my RAW files on my NAS, this way if I want to sit downstairs with my MacBook I just plug the SSD into it and have access to the library
 
Hanley said:
On a Mac it will default to 'Pictures' folder on your hard drive.

I have an external SSD connected to my Mac Studio and my Lightroom catalogue is stored on there, with my RAW files on my NAS, this way if I want to sit downstairs with my MacBook I just plug the SSD into it and have access to the library
Click to expand...
Thank you, yep it's in 'Pictures'. (y)
I have a couple of 'nano' SSD's plugged into my iMac and attached to the back with Velcro. One is used to store photos.
Should I put the catalogue with the photos?
If I move some photos off the SSD at a later stage I guess the photo/catalogue thing breaks down?
Do you have a single or multiple catalogues? I assume multiple is possible?
 
gramps said:
Thank you, yep it's in 'Pictures'. (y)
I have a couple of 'nano' SSD's plugged into my iMac and attached to the back with Velcro. One is used to store photos.
Should I put the catalogue with the photos?
If I move some photos off the SSD at a later stage I guess the photo/catalogue thing breaks down?
Do you have a single or multiple catalogues? I assume multiple is possible?
Click to expand...
Perceived wisdom is to keep the catalogue on the built in HDD/SSD (which normally gives the fastest read/write speeds) and files on an external SSD.

But I think that the speed of modern SSDs and ports, make it less important where you store the catalogues.

You can have multiple catalogues, but with only one open at a times. And unlike "proper" DAMs, you cannot search across multiple catalogues in lR, so using multiple catalogues in LR rather defeats the purpose of having a catalogue (except for special purposes)

As an aside, "Lightroom" as opposed to Lightroom Classic will work without a catalogue. With "Lightroom", you can just browse straight to the folders where the files are stored (as you can with a Bridge +ACR approach).

I think Lightroom is still rather limited compared to LR Classic, but I'm increasingly coming across people who say they have now given up Classic and are just using Lightroom.
 
gramps said:
Thank you, yep it's in 'Pictures'. (y)
I have a couple of 'nano' SSD's plugged into my iMac and attached to the back with Velcro. One is used to store photos.
Should I put the catalogue with the photos?
If I move some photos off the SSD at a later stage I guess the photo/catalogue thing breaks down?
Do you have a single or multiple catalogues? I assume multiple is possible?
Click to expand...
I use multiple catalogues, named appropriately as Personal, Sports Events, Corporate etc. etc.

I always keep my photos separate from the catalogue, Lightroom then just adds a pointer in the catalogue to say 'this is where this image lives'.
If you move the images, the link breaks but you simply click the exclamation mark and select 'Locate File' and point Lightroom to the new location.
 
Hanley said:
I use multiple catalogues, named appropriately as Personal, Sports Events, Corporate etc. etc.

I always keep my photos separate from the catalogue, Lightroom then just adds a pointer in the catalogue to say 'this is where this image lives'.
If you move the images, the link breaks but you simply click the exclamation mark and select 'Locate File' and point Lightroom to the new location.
Click to expand...
Very helpful, thank you. :)
 
gramps said:
Should I put the catalogue with the photos?
If I move some photos off the SSD at a later stage I guess the photo/catalogue thing breaks down?
Do you have a single or multiple catalogues? I assume multiple is possible?
Click to expand...

Multiple catalogues are possible though I use a single one.

It's recommended to move catalogued photos using lightroom itself so it can track where you put them, although it's not hard to relocate them later.
 
The general advice was to only use one catalog and to use other methods to sort photos eg Collections and key wording.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Multiple catalogues are possible though I use a single one.

It's recommended to move catalogued photos using lightroom itself so it can track where you put them, although it's not hard to relocate them later.
Click to expand...
Unless the images themselves are imported directly into the catalogue I would never use / trust Lightroom to move them, much safer to move them yourself and then use Lightroom to re-point to the correct location.
 
Brentor said:
The general advice was to only use one catalog and to use other methods to sort photos eg Collections and key wording.
Click to expand...
It depends on size and how you want to structure your library.

I might have a catalogue with 30,000 boxing pictures in, I don't want that connected to my personal images, nor corporate or marathons etc, so it's much tidier (for me at least) to have catalogues dedicated to each discipline / type. It also makes Lightroom run faster as it's not constantly loading a catalogue with thousands of images.
 
Hanley said:
It depends on size and how you want to structure your library.

I might have a catalogue with 30,000 boxing pictures in, I don't want that connected to my personal images, nor corporate or marathons etc, so it's much tidier (for me at least) to have catalogues dedicated to each discipline / type. It also makes Lightroom run faster as it's not constantly loading a catalogue with thousands of images.
Click to expand...
Understood but your requirements are probably different to most amateurs. Your boxing catalog is bigger than my entire collection.
 
Brentor said:
Understood but your requirements are probably different to most amateurs. Your boxing catalog is bigger than my entire collection.
Click to expand...
Fair point, we all have our own preference of doing things, I've been using Lightroom for so long I'm too old to change now :ROFLMAO:
 
So I created an additional catalogue for my London Visits.
Processed some photos and removed some others in Develop, (guess I should have removed them on Import).
The processed photos I exported back to a 'Processed' folder on the external drive, (as jpg's obviously), the 'removed' photos were then deleted.

Re-opening LRC opened that catalogue and showed all the original thumbnails (every one!) but 'File not found' in the main pane - of course they had been processed and saved as jpg's.
So why were all the thumbnails showing when the RAW files had been removed/deleted, will they not just clutter things up when I import the next days photos?

Sorry to be clueless and thanks for the help so far. :)
 
gramps said:
So I created an additional catalogue for my London Visits.
Processed some photos and removed some others in Develop, (guess I should have removed them on Import).
The processed photos I exported back to a 'Processed' folder on the external drive, (as jpg's obviously), the 'removed' photos were then deleted.

Re-opening LRC opened that catalogue and showed all the original thumbnails (every one!) but 'File not found' in the main pane - of course they had been processed and saved as jpg's.
So why were all the thumbnails showing when the RAW files had been removed/deleted, will they not just clutter things up when I import the next days photos?

Sorry to be clueless and thanks for the help so far. :)
Click to expand...
Did you use LR to delete the files from your hard drive?
 
gramps said:
So I created an additional catalogue for my London Visits.
Processed some photos and removed some others in Develop, (guess I should have removed them on Import).
The processed photos I exported back to a 'Processed' folder on the external drive, (as jpg's obviously), the 'removed' photos were then deleted.

Re-opening LRC opened that catalogue and showed all the original thumbnails (every one!) but 'File not found' in the main pane - of course they had been processed and saved as jpg's.
So why were all the thumbnails showing when the RAW files had been removed/deleted, will they not just clutter things up when I import the next days photos?

Sorry to be clueless and thanks for the help so far. :)
Click to expand...
You’re not clueless, it's a steep learning curve.
Lightroom’s catalogue doesn’t hold your photos. It’s a database that records where they are, what you’ve done to them, and a small preview of each one. The thumbnails come from those saved previews, so they stay even after the RAW files are gone. “File not found” just means Lightroom is pointing at an empty spot.

To clear them out:
  1. Go to the Library module and click All Photographs in the Catalog panel.
  2. Choose Library > Find All Missing Photos. A “Missing Photos” collection appears in the Catalog panel.
  3. Click it, press Ctrl+A (Cmd+A on a Mac), then hit Delete.
  4. When it asks, choose Remove, not Delete from Disk. The files are already gone, so this only tidies up the catalogue.
For next time, the cleanest way to cull your images is inside Lightroom. Press X to reject the ones you don't want, then go to Photo > Delete Rejected Photos. It asks whether to remove them from the catalogue only or delete the files too, and you get both jobs done in one go. You can also untick the bad ones in the Import window before they come in.

Also just to note, you may already know this, your exported JPGs aren’t in the catalogue unless you ticked “Add to This Catalog” in the Export box. If you want them there, right-click the Processed folder in the Folders panel and choose Import. Otherwise they’re just files on the drive.
 
Hanley said:
Also just to note, you may already know this, your exported JPGs aren’t in the catalogue unless you ticked “Add to This Catalog” in the Export box. If you want them there, right-click the Processed folder in the Folders panel and choose Import. Otherwise they’re just files on the drive.
Click to expand...
I can't recall how I set it up now - but I found a way of exporting as jpgs to the same folder the original were in. I use this when I've done something like edited in silverefex or something, and they come back as TIFFs, which are often huge - I export them as JPGs to the same folder and then delete the TIFFs. That way I guess they get into the catalogue.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the image you can find through windows is rubbish without the Lightroom catalog / sidecar. If you open it via Windows, it doesn't have any of the processing. I've often wondered what will happen to my photos when I pop off - because no-one will really be able to look at them as I intended them to be seen unless they use and know about Lightroom. Unless I'm missing something?
 
Bodian said:
I can't recall how I set it up now - but I found a way of exporting as jpgs to the same folder the original were in. I use this when I've done something like edited in silverefex or something, and they come back as TIFFs, which are often huge - I export them as JPGs to the same folder and then delete the TIFFs. That way I guess they get into the catalogue.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the image you can find through windows is rubbish without the Lightroom catalog / sidecar. If you open it via Windows, it doesn't have any of the processing. I've often wondered what will happen to my photos when I pop off - because no-one will really be able to look at them as I intended them to be seen unless they use and know about Lightroom. Unless I'm missing something?
Click to expand...
It’s under the File/Export menu. One of the options is where to save the exported file.

My exports are nearly all the same so once set up, I select export with previous.
 
gramps said:
Surely the processed jpg's?
Click to expand...
But where are they in Windows?? I think they only exist if you have exported, and saved, the JPG at some point? If you have just processed the RAW image, when you try and open it with anything but lightroom, you get the original.

For instance, the processed image in Lightroom looks like this:

Capture.JPG

but all I can see in Windows is this:

Capture 1.JPG
 
Bodian said:
But where are they in Windows?? I think they only exist if you have exported, and saved, the JPG at some point? If you have just processed the RAW image, when you try and open it with anything but lightroom, you get the original.

For instance, the processed image in Lightroom looks like this:

View attachment 494682

but all I can see in Windows is this:

View attachment 494683
Click to expand...
Yes I see.
For me the processing is only for images I think I'll keep/publish, so they will be saved as finished jpgs and hence available in a folder on my external drive.
 
The essence of lightroom is that you NON-DESTRUCTIVELY edit the images you import.

Lightroom effectively creates filters and masks as you process, showing you what changes you have made. It stores these for every photo you edit, and IF you export a processed image then they are applied so that it appears exactly as you had created it. This is why, when you view the base file in windows, it looks unchanged- because it is unchanged.

Unless you remove a photograph from lightroom, it will remember what and where it was even after you have moved it or even deleted it from disc - the placeholder and preview image are retained and show to you in the library, but Lightroom reports the photo as no found because the original image is no longer where it should be. When you import pictures into Lr it will build previews (which takes time) and then use these to show you what the photo looked like. You can find lost photos and tell Lr where they are now, and it can also find other lost pictures that were in the same location at the same time if they are still stored with the other image.
 
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