Flash - Where to start?

[bildo]

Following on from the help I got with deciding what tripod to get I'm getting a little overwhelmed with the amount of choice with choosing a flash.

I'm using a Nikon D5100, my budget ideally would be around £150 max, and I'd like to be able to use it off-camera too.

Would consider both new, and used.

I know absolutely nothing about flashes yet, so I'm going in a little clueless. Have spent the afternoon looking into it and feeling just as confused as when I started at the moment!

 

[ah5168]

I would go for a Nissin Di 622 Mk II. New around £100 used about £70. They work well in iTTL or off camera modes.

 

[bildo]

Thanks for that, I was under the impression aftermarket flashes weren't as good as Nikon ones, is this false? Are there any benefits to a Nikon one?

I was looking at SB-600 and 700 but if I can get something good for that price it sounds like a real bargain.

 

[Ivan S]

Yongnuo 560 III, around £70, perfect for off camera use, has a built in receiver to match the yongnuo rf603 triggers.
No iTTL though on this model, but it's so easy to use in manual it's not a problem.

The yongnuo 568 is iTTL and FP sync and is the top of the line yongnuo and at £120 is a bargain compared to Nikon's offerings.

The triggers are rf603 (just check for the right cable for you camera, mine is N3) for nikon and only £24 for 2 of them, it will give you a wireless shutter release when matched up with the 560 III flash gun as you don't need a trigger for the flash as it's built in receiver is compatible, it's a hard to beat first setup tbh and is what I have and couldn't be happier with it.

 

[bildo]

Ivan - Thank you very much for your informative post.

I'm a little confused, so bare with me! I'm struggling to understand how flashes work at the moment so it'd be great if you could fill in the gaps!

If I was to get the 568, is this going to be a better flash than the SB-600 or 700? My understanding of iTTL is that it basically reads the scene for you and decides how much flash you need etc? If so I'd really like to have that feature, at least to begin with, even if manual isn't too challenging.

Now, with the triggers, I'm really lost. You mentioned that with the 560 III flash gun it'll give me wireless shutter release, would it not do this for the 568?

Why do the triggers come in sets of two? Do you keep one of the triggers on the camera to operate the off-camera flash?

Sorry for the newbie questions, just trying to gain a better understanding!

Thanks for your help and advice

 

[Ivan S]

Ivan - Thank you very much for your informative post.

I'm a little confused, so bare with me! I'm struggling to understand how flashes work at the moment so it'd be great if you could fill in the gaps!

If I was to get the 568, is this going to be a better flash than the SB-600 or 700? My understanding of iTTL is that it basically reads the scene for you and decides how much flash you need etc? If so I'd really like to have that feature, at least to begin with, even if manual isn't too challenging.

Now, with the triggers, I'm really lost. You mentioned that with the 560 III flash gun it'll give me wireless shutter release, would it not do this for the 568?

Why do the triggers come in sets of two? Do you keep one of the triggers on the camera to operate the off-camera flash?

Sorry for the newbie questions, just trying to gain a better understanding!

Thanks for your help and advice

I can't say which is best, but only go on the price, I know I couldn't justify as much for a flash gun as my Nikon D3100 cost me and it will only get light use from me.

i-TTL is like you say, it will alter the power depending on what your camera is reading and get a decent exposure with out too much faffing about, all depends on your needs really.

I went manual knowing I will probably use it more off camera and want full control over the power so it was an easy choice to go with 560 III and you can get the power just right with just 2-3 test shots.

If you go for the 568EX it has full manual control as well so you get to mess with both

Onto the triggers, yes they will trigger the shutter wireless but the flash attached to the trigger will need to be on your camera hot shoe.
Where as with the 560 III you can place the flash where you want.
Yet if you want to place the 568EX somewhere off camera you will need another trigger if you want one in your hand as a release you will need 3 triggers like that or means you are going have to press the button that is attached to the flash gun or on the camera(kinda defeats a wireless release), which is no problem really, so 2 can be used just easier with more

You can buy them in packs of 2, 3 , 4, each time it gets cheaper to buy more

A couple of pics to show as well, here you see how it attaches to camera and leaves me one in hand with the 560 III flash, bear in mind with a 568EX the single trigger would be attached to the flash unit.

This it it firing in S1 mode with my little compact

 

[pingu666]

I think the yn's are the best for manual off camera flash, on digital atleast, or manual on camera, simply due to simple interface with plenty of buttons, just going off video reviews

my metz af 50 which has ttl, adi and all that auto jazz is very good at that, but would be clumsy in manual mode as it has 4 buttons.

for on camera automatic, id say having it have focus assist red light pattern is very helpful, and some minus angle in the horizontal can help.

also look at expensive flash accessories, then buy cheap chinese copies

 

[bildo]

I can't say which is best, but only go on the price, I know I couldn't justify as much for a flash gun as my Nikon D3100 cost me and it will only get light use from me.

Noticed an SB-600 in the classifieds for £130 delivered, which was what tickled my fancy initially. Am I missing something on why you think an SB-600 would be a lot more? (Genuine question!)

i-TTL is like you say, it will alter the power depending on what your camera is reading and get a decent exposure with out too much faffing about, all depends on your needs really.

Reassuring something paid off on the research then!

I went manual knowing I will probably use it more off camera and want full control over the power so it was an easy choice to go with 560 III and you can get the power just right with just 2-3 test shots.

If you go for the 568EX it has full manual control as well so you get to mess with both

Gone back in to stupid mode again here! For me, I'll most likely be using it on the camera a lot of the time for the kind of shooting I want, however being able to take it off the camera would be a great help.

So for me, in this part the 568EX sounds like the better option, right?

Thank you for your time and effort with the pics, that was very much appreciated. Gives me a little bit more of an understanding but I'm still clueless in a lot of ways!

Onto the triggers, yes they will trigger the shutter wireless but the flash attached to the trigger will need to be on your camera hot shoe.
Where as with the 560 III you can place the flash where you want. Yet if you want to place the 568EX somewhere off camera you will need another trigger if you want one in your hand as a release you will need 3 triggers like that or means you are going have to press the button that is attached to the flash gun or on the camera(kinda defeats a wireless release), which is no problem really, so 2 can be used just easier with more

I think I'm getting the wrong idea here. My understanding was that if I have the trigger on the hot shoe then it reads when I press the shutter release on the camera and tells the flash to fire, I guess that was just something I made up in my mind?

So I need to actually press the trigger button to make the flash go off? How do you go about taking a shot and pressing the trigger at the exact same time? (I'm now 100% convinced I sound like an idiot - apologies again!)

So now it sounds like the 560 is better in this respect? As the 568 sounds like I need another trigger and another thing to think about?

I'm sure I'm getting completely the wrong end of the stick, but I've read it 3 times and I'm still scratching my head!

Thanks for the time and effort in your post, sorry it can't get through my thick skull!

 

[Ivan S]

As for features on the SB-600 the head cannot rotate, which means limited positions and that was a feature I wanted so as soon as I seen that in the specs it was a no no, then you get to the more expensive models.

I'd rather stick to the cheaper budget end myself as I am new and no pro, I don't really need the best of the best, after all I have no plans to make any money out of it, it's more a hobby for me, but it's your money and like you say the i-TTL is going to be more useful for you, my plans are some macro stuff probably using 2 flash guns, didn't really want to be paying £500 for some lighting you see.

Yes the triggers will work like that no problem, pressing the shutter and firing the flash from the triggers, my explanation was more for my plans of using the trigger off camera as to avoid any movement when taking shots(macro, when I get round to it), there are very versatile in there use being transceivers, they can send and receive.

Don't count out the 568 with needing a trigger, if it's on camera obviously it don't, also you have S1 and S2 modes, which mean they will fire when they see another flash fire, like my second picture the flash has seen my little flash from my compact and fired, something I forgot to mention so you can use your in built flash on your camera as a trigger, no need for triggers like that, although then there is no i-TTL, unless you get Yongnuo newest triggers that pass on the i-TTL for nikon, they have just been released http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281108042059?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 just to complicate things more

Depends how serious you think you will get into it, the bug can bite very hard, I am just trying to balance the kit out what I buy, I don't want to throw too much money at it only to then not get any use from it.

No need to thank me, I enjoy a discussion on all techy stuff, it's another part of this I like.

 

[pingu666]

yn flashes are great secondary flashes with very good flash when flashed mode, radio triggers probably more consistant, no need for a trigger flash, and maybe faster shutter speed?

 

[p444ete]

Just to clarify. I have the SB-600 and can confirm that the head DOES rotate, up and down, left to right, inside out, etc

 

[bildo]

As for features on the SB-600 the head cannot rotate, which means limited positions and that was a feature I wanted so as soon as I seen that in the specs it was a no no, then you get to the more expensive models.

I'd rather stick to the cheaper budget end myself as I am new and no pro, I don't really need the best of the best, after all I have no plans to make any money out of it, it's more a hobby for me, but it's your money and like you say the i-TTL is going to be more useful for you, my plans are some macro stuff probably using 2 flash guns, didn't really want to be paying £500 for some lighting you see.

Yes the triggers will work like that no problem, pressing the shutter and firing the flash from the triggers, my explanation was more for my plans of using the trigger off camera as to avoid any movement when taking shots(macro, when I get round to it), there are very versatile in there use being transceivers, they can send and receive.

Don't count out the 568 with needing a trigger, if it's on camera obviously it don't, also you have S1 and S2 modes, which mean they will fire when they see another flash fire, like my second picture the flash has seen my little flash from my compact and fired, something I forgot to mention so you can use your in built flash on your camera as a trigger, no need for triggers like that, although then there is no i-TTL, unless you get Yongnuo newest triggers that pass on the i-TTL for nikon, they have just been released http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281108042059?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 just to complicate things more

Depends how serious you think you will get into it, the bug can bite very hard, I am just trying to balance the kit out what I buy, I don't want to throw too much money at it only to then not get any use from it.

No need to thank me, I enjoy a discussion on all techy stuff, it's another part of this I like.

As the guy below said, the SB-600 does rotate, it was a video on YouTube of it that made me drawn to it in the first place.

I'm definitely very, very far from a pro myself, just a keen amateur like you, and also like you I don't want to go spending the world on something I'll rarely use, but I'd like to get the best I can which is why I'm willing to consider used items.

Completely understand not wanting to spend £500 on lighting, mine will be more on-camera use though I think. If I was to get the SB-600 would I be able to get the cheaper Yongnuo further down the line if I wanted it as a second flash? I get what you mean about one flash firing and prompting the other to, never knew this and was quite amazed haha!

One thing I did find out is that the D5100 doesn't have the ability to communicate with the SB-600 off flash which is a bummer, I assume the Yongnuo would be able to? Or would the SB-600 work with like you said by triggering by using my on-board flash?

I can't believe how complicated flashes are, all I want is a decent bit of light in a photo!

Thanks again, glad I'm not winding you up too much (yet!)

Just to clarify. I have the SB-600 and can confirm that the head DOES rotate, up and down, left to right, inside out, etc

 

[Ivan S]

Hmm, first review I started reading said head does not rotate on SB-600

Anyway, yes you could add as many flashguns as you want and set them S1 or S2 to trigger when another one from the camera flash's, save's money on triggers that way, but you will need to set them up manually regarding power output, but the option for triggers is still available.

To communicate from camera to off camera flash, you will need a set of triggers that can do that, the rf603 triggers are not able to do that as they just use a pass through system to the flash gun but don't send any info to any other flash's that are mounted on the rf603 trigger, well apart from telling it to fire.

But then you have the newly released ''Yongnuo YN-622N Wireless i-TTL HSS 1/8000S Flash Trigger for Nikon'' which I believe will pass all the info from the camera to any flash that is i-TTL compatible, such as SB-600 and Yongnuo flash's with i-TTL but I cannot be 100% sure on that myself as I see no reviews or anything for them yet, lots of info of what they can do in this listing http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281108042059?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

So if you want the SB-600 and the ability to use it of camera with i-TTL those triggers should do it

There actually not too complex, once you get one it becomes much clearer, I was the same, then I just got the 560III and loved how easy it is to setup and use it and the results it can give can.