Flash With A Long Lens

milster

milster

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Gary
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The last two times I've been to my local zoo I've seen people using a flash with a long lens (Canon 100-400 and Sigma 150-500) I don't know much about flash photography but I was quite surprised to see this. Does anyone esle use a flash with a long lens and does it work?

Cheers,

Gary.
 
I imagine they dont have a clue
 
Depends on the flash and the distance to the subject. When used as fill-flash a 580EX will be effective at a reasonlble range. And it can't make the image any worse.

A Beater Beamer makes a flash quite useful.
 
I've just been on a full-in flash course with Photographers on Safari at the Cotswold Wildlife Park, and we finished off photographing the wolverines for which I used my 100-400mm. It would not have occurred to me to use it with a flash before, but it worked perfectly (430 EXii) and gave just the extra light needed in a very dark enclosure.
 
Photodiva said:
I imagine they dont have a clue
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Guessing you don't shoot wild birds then?

Serious wildlife photographers use flash in daylight.

Me? I'm just an amateur and I never do. I don't even own a flash.

I'm the one without a clue........ Well...., you and me both......:p
 
Photodiva said:
I imagine they dont have a clue
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I don't think it is them who are lacking clue ;)

I often use flash with my long lenses. In harsh midday sun a little pop of flash can lift the shadows a stop or two to battle the contrast and make an image look so much better. Conversely on overcast days the flash can add a little contrast and eye catchlights if done right.
 
The problem with on camera flash at long range is red eye, steel eye or any other funny eye reflections that can occur. In daylight, using flash just for fill, maybe there would be less of a problem than at night. However, the reach potential of the flash should not be underestimated, especially if only used for fill.

Here is a quick shot at a distance of around 15m at 400mm, 1/200, f/5.6, 200 ISO, FEC at 0 and no edits.

20120822_223026_1039_LR.jpg


It was so dark that I could barely see the subject, much less know where to find an area of contrast upon which to focus, so a torch was used to aid focusing and then turned off. I don't know if the flash reached the limit of its power or if the white top suppressed the flash prematurely, but either way there is a pretty fair amount of light there to provide some fill in daylight, and this was at only 200 ISO. If more range was required then upping the ISO or using a Better Beamer are options. 400 ISO would give the same illumination at 20m and 800 ISO would stretch it to 30m.

Personally I have stopped using flash on animals because I don't have the tools or inclination to deal with any problems with the retina reflections. That's not to say it doesn't have its possibilities.

EDIT : I just re-shot, this time setting the flash to full power on manual. Still no Better beamer. Here is a shot at 200 ISO and one at 400 ISO....

20120822_225002_1040_LR.jpg


20120822_225104_1044_LR.jpg


No problem with reach/power there.
 
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milster said:
Does anyone esle use a flash with a long lens and does it work?

Cheers,

Gary.
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Yes, and ...yes

I use a Better Beamer type, but since they're quite easy to build i made my own, rather than buy a Better Beamer.

Its only a fresnel lens mounted in a crude cradle, after all

This is what they look like in DIY form

http://www.digitalbirdphotography.com/7.9.html

vqmu83.jpg
 
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never occurred to use flash on animals in the zoo
partly because of the range maybe?? but also because I can only imagine that it's quite uncomfortable for the animals, esp those that habitually like the dark and who are enclosed and forced into contact with happy snappers like me.

wild birds though? well it wouldn't bother them as much
 
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u8myufo said:
:thinking: Care to explain a little why they dont have a clue then?
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Possibly dropped on their heads as youngsters. :shrug:

I do remember seeing one chap with a bigma and flash at an airshow. It went through my mind that most flashes that would have been any use in this application were abolished under the Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty. :D
 
Oggy said:
Possibly dropped on their heads as youngsters. :shrug:

I do remember seeing one chap with a bigma and flash at an airshow. It went through my mind that most flashes that would have been any use in this application were abolished under the Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty. :D
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:lol:
There are many people who do not understand how flash works, that it has to illuminate the subject and bounce back. When I was on holiday, it was quite funny to see people using small compact cameras and DSLR's at night, trying to take panoramic shots and street scenes, with flash, when the nearest subject matter was at least 50 - 100 metres away.
 
u8myufo said:
:thinking: Care to explain a little why they dont have a clue then?
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Flash with glass or bars between you and the animals? My last trip to the zoo was educational (Colchester, I think) as animals, (mammals, monkeys etc) deliberately turned their backs as soon as spectators raised their cameras. I didn't have a flash enabled on mine, but the effect was just the same. I can only conclude that the animals have learned to avoid the 'flash on auto' syndrome and turn their backs as soon as they recognise a camera as they don't like the bright light. It was quite obvious having spectated for quite a while at various pens. The bigger mammals were less bothered, but the small ones were very aware.

We weren't talking about wild birds, but the info for that is useful. However, a lot of non-specialists who use green box auto flash away regardless. Olympic opening ceremony is a good example.
 
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andy700 said:
There are many people who do not understand how flash works, that it has to illuminate the subject and bounce back. When I was on holiday, it was quite funny to see people using small compact cameras and DSLR's at night, trying to take panoramic shots and street scenes, with flash, when the nearest subject matter was at least 50 - 100 metres away.
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When I was in Iceland I saw a load of people with their P&S cameras trying to take photos of the aurora - with flash, of course!
 
I saw a couple of people using the built in flash at Waddington airshow with a long lens on. 1 was a Nikon user so I haven't a clue what lens he had, but the other had a Sigma 120-400 or 150-500 (couldn't see for definite at the distance I was from them) and they were taking the shots at least a 100m away. I can't think that a flash rated at around 13m would of had any effect at all on the final shot but they both seemed happy enough using them. I've got a Nissin Di866 rated at 60m max and I really don't think that would've made any difference either.
 
Photodiva said:
Flash with glass or bars between you and the animals? My last trip to the zoo was educational (Colchester, I think) as animals, (mammals, monkeys etc) deliberately turned their backs as soon as spectators raised their cameras. I didn't have a flash enabled on mine, but the effect was just the same. I can only conclude that the animals have learned to avoid the 'flash on auto' syndrome and turn their backs as soon as they recognise a camera as they don't like the bright light. It was quite obvious having spectated for quite a while at various pens. The bigger mammals were less bothered, but the small ones were very aware.

We weren't talking about wild birds, but the info for that is useful. However, a lot of non-specialists who use green box auto flash away regardless. Olympic opening ceremony is a good example.
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Thanks Carol, understand about shooting through glass with it, but in saying that if you have an understanding of how to control it, then even that is possible. I only asked as your first reply was not too much help to the OP. I was not trying to start an arguement, but there seems to be a lot of one liners lately when it comes to answering peoples questions.
 
gramps said:
:lol: nearly fell off the chair!
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lol
I went airsofting a while back and whilst laser sights are more cool :cool: than actually help at those ranges and plastic bb's...some lads had lasers that were too powerful for work I was doing when at uni!!! they were removed for the game and small talking too was offered on the grounds of health and safety!
 
On the fill-in flash course I mentioned earlier we used flash through glass very successfully; we just had the lens against the glass and used a hand against the glass above the lens to stop light bleeding from the flash.

Also, almost the first question I asked was with regard to the ethics of using flash on the animals, and the instructor's answer was proved correct through the day - the animals had no reaction to the flash whatsoever as we kept the power low and weren't too close.
 
The problem arises as flash brightens decreases proportionally to the square of the distance so while close up they may seem bright, as distance increases the brightness drops off quickly.

Laser is a different case as the light is parallel.
 
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