flash working too good - don't get it

KIPAX

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KIPAX Lancashire UK
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I know I shouldn't be but I am still a complete novice with flash... I need somehting explaining please..


testing in my front room..pictures of my front room

I can set my camera up in manual.. lets say 200 shutter, iso 800 and f8 with flash set to TTL
Perfect exposure

I can then change anything...go to f4.. go to iso 1600.. change shutter
Perfect exposure

It doesn't matter what settings i choose on my camera..
perfect exposure

turn lights on or just have lamp on
perfect exposure


1dxmk II
24-70 mk II
580EX II



Does this all sound right ?
 
Yes Ttl in operation I believe.
 
Yes Ttl in operation I believe.


i presumed.. but why then do people suggest using different modes wiht flash like av or tv..... why not setup everthing as you want it and let the flash do the rest ?

also i presume the higher ISO i use will put less strain on batteries as the flash will need less power ?
 
Yes again, to iso question.
As to the other part, I am no flash expert, far from it, but it's all about combining 2 images, one lit by flash and one by ambient light. If you are indoors you won't have much distance between object and background so the flash will pretty much light everything. However go outside at night and you will find the meter on av will suggest a very slow shutter speed, tv will suggest a large aperture, neither may be achieved and the background will at best be black unless you have a really powerful flash. In av mode you may also see signs of camera shake.
Or at least that's my understanding, ask Phil he gives a much better answer.
Matt
 
Because you have to also realise that if your in a much bigger room then the flash won't fill that room that it's doing in your home at the moment so adjusting shutter speed for example will have an affect on the ambient that the flash isn't reaching . That would be one and probably the main reason for having a preference to a certain setting
 
i presumed.. but why then do people suggest using different modes wiht flash like av or tv..... why not setup everthing as you want it and let the flash do the rest ?
For the same reasons you might choose Av(A)/Tv(S) modes when not using flash (varying scene/lighting). Also, when using an automated mode the flash automatically drops into fill flash mode (at least with Nikon) because the camera will first try to get a decent exposure before adding flash.
 
i presumed.. but why then do people suggest using different modes wiht flash like av or tv..... why not setup everthing as you want it and let the flash do the rest ?

also i presume the higher ISO i use will put less strain on batteries as the flash will need less power ?
I don't know what others suggest, but in the flash section here most of us spend our lives posting to use Manual mode on camera and ttl because in the semi auto modes the camera second guessing your intentions creates problems.

The received wisdom is 'set your manual exposure to give the amount of ambient you're happy with, let ttl do the rest' unless in a studio type setting where setting manual on the flash gives more consistent results.

Yes higher ISO means less flash power, faster recycling, more flashes (but a modern flashgun gives hundreds of exposures at full power and isn't a problem for anyone other than the hardest working event guys)
 
+1 for manual plus TTL. Also note to avoid "auto ISO" which is possible in manual as with flash on it simply defaults to 400 or something. meaning you probably won't get what you want from the ambient light.
 
Its doing exactly what it is supposed to , like you it took me ages to work it out.
A canon flash in Av/Tv mode works as fill light , in M mode the flash becomes the main light.
It was the best advice I got when I worked for an estate agent and I used to shoot interiors.
Camera to Manual , shutter below syc speed flash to ETTL and away you go, worked every time and I still can't get my head round it in Av/Tv
 
Its doing exactly what it is supposed to , like you it took me ages to work it out.
A canon flash in Av/Tv mode works as fill light , in M mode the flash becomes the main light.
It was the best advice I got when I worked for an estate agent and I used to shoot interiors.
Camera to Manual , shutter below syc speed flash to ETTL and away you go, worked every time and I still can't get my head round it in Av/Tv
That would work well until you have to photograph something bigger than a living room . If for example it was a lobby of a big hotel then you would very much have to consider shutter speed etc .
 
The received wisdom is 'set your manual exposure to give the amount of ambient you're happy with, let ttl do the rest' unless in a studio type setting where setting manual on the flash gives more consistent results.


deff not studio

first off opologies.. I really do take a long time to grasp things.. I know my own area of photogrpahy very well..if i do say so myself :) ...... but believe me it took a long time to learn

IF I am setting the exposure in manual...then why do I need flash? let em explain.. I can take a picture and set the exposure but i may need high iso....i want to take the same picture but with less iso so i use flash.. if i am setting the exposure as if i wasnt then ?
 
+1 for manual plus TTL. Also note to avoid "auto ISO" which is possible in manual as with flash on it simply defaults to 400 or something. meaning you probably won't get what you want from the ambient light.

yes always 400... auto iso useless really :)
 
I was at a location about a week ago which had a light behind me causing me to cast a shadow on my subject.

Took a shot without flash in M and reduced ISO/increased shutter speed until whole image was black. Basically nullified the light behind me and hence my shadow too.

Used these settings but with flash on and TTL. Got the image I wanted and no shadow from my silhouette.
 
deff not studio

first off opologies.. I really do take a long time to grasp things.. I know my own area of photogrpahy very well..if i do say so myself :) ...... but believe me it took a long time to learn

IF I am setting the exposure in manual...then why do I need flash? let em explain.. I can take a picture and set the exposure but i may need high iso....i want to take the same picture but with less iso so i use flash.. if i am setting the exposure as if i wasnt then ?

Ambient light always looks more natural than flash. however the ambient light is probably not illumination the subject of interest very well( or not in the way you might wish.. so you can treat the shot as if it were two. The background lit by the ambient and the subject lit by the flash, to achieve what is the best of both worlds.

In most cases,the flash will also be fast enough to stop any subject movement , whereas the shutter speed for the ambient will probably not be fast enough to do so.
But in many situations the rather soft background can look rather nice contrasted with the sharp flash subject. Even though there is sometimes a second blurred image of the subject. This can be very effective at dances etc as it imparts a sense of movement.
 
That would work well until you have to photograph something bigger than a living room . If for example it was a lobby of a big hotel then you would very much have to consider shutter speed etc .

Yes totally agree but you would not be doing that with an on camera flash, you would have a battery of studio lights carefully positioned and would be metering everything, horses for courses
 
Yes totally agree but you would not be doing that with an on camera flash, you would have a battery of studio lights carefully positioned and would be metering everything, horses for courses
Yes for estate agent photography not for weddings , events or 90% of any other photography . A different scenario then .... When your estate agent asks you to photograph the living room but also expose for the lovely flowers and sea view out the living room window .
 
IF I am setting the exposure in manual...then why do I need flash? let em explain.. I can take a picture and set the exposure but i may need high iso....i want to take the same picture but with less iso so i use flash.. if i am setting the exposure as if i wasnt then ?
You wouldn't set the manual exposure as if you weren't using flash. You would reduce the exposure by dropping the ISO and let the TTL flash make up for it. The result would be "the same exposure" anywhere the flash is illuminating at the correct power, but a darker exposure everywhere else.
 
doing a fair bit of flash photogrpahy in a semi enclosed space this evening.. I did the same job last year .....) Just wanted to be a bit more enlightened this time... I can always fall back to P+TTL if things dont work.Not exactly sure what i did last year.. probably test shots and carried on :)

last years effort
http://www.kipax.com/gallery/index.php?album=FOOTBALL_u18/4221

. I will report back
 
Can you get the flash off camera? A couple up on lightstands, one on each side, would help with this setup?
 
Can you get the flash off camera? A couple up on lightstands, one on each side, would help with this setup?

haha reading the thread you don't think thats a bit of a jump? in an hour ? :)
 
Well i did the job and hmmm I did experiment a lot.... sorry was still struggling to get my head round it so basicaly i set it up and chimped and just changed what i needed as the light changed... but although that sounds like i know what i am doing and i di sorta.... i still wasn't actually getting it... but job done.. money in pocket :)

here are the results.. inside football stadium dim lighting and rained...
http://www.kipax.com/gallery/index.php?album=FOOTBALL_u18/4703

Have another this morning but just individuals team pics not a mass shot as being done on an open football pitch with houses or factories on all sides.... going to have to be creative to get a decent background :(

PS first pic was 5.30 and we had to be out by 7pm so it was a bit rushed in places :(
 
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The answer was obvious: 1dxmk II magic :D


haaa googled magic and came up with magic lantern.... been using canon for goodness knows how long from 10d onwards and heard about lantern but never tried it....... didnt know it was for 1dxII ... with no side effects/problems/stable ?
 
deff not studio

first off opologies.. I really do take a long time to grasp things.. I know my own area of photogrpahy very well..if i do say so myself :) ...... but believe me it took a long time to learn

IF I am setting the exposure in manual...then why do I need flash?
SNIP<
To take control over direction and quality of light and shadows
 
haaa googled magic and came up with magic lantern.... been using canon for goodness knows how long from 10d onwards and heard about lantern but never tried it....... didnt know it was for 1dxII ... with no side effects/problems/stable ?


Sorry I meant as Canon maguic with the 1D mk4. Having seen your low light images, I was facetiously making reference to the qualities of the camera.
Now where did I put that whoosh parrot :D
 
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