Free or should you pay

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#3
The Bournemouth airshow used to be a pay event years ago and now it is totally free.
Must admit I would happily pay £5 to watch it though and probably double that if they got a few more of the fast jets rather than the usual prop planes they seem so fond of.
 
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Ian
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#5
I am convinced that the “FREELOADERS” mentioned in this report or those who do not pay entry fees to any air show will be the first to complain when these events are all forced to closed due to lack of funding. They do not realise the huge expense of staging these shows, nor do they give a monkeys about the 1000s of volunteers who give up their time to help out, nor the charities that these events support.

We see it here from time to time, Freeloaders starting threads asking other TP members for information on the best places to view X air show from outside the parameter fence as they don’t want to pay to get in, yet you see how much they invest on camera gear.

Another a huge problem with certain shows are these parasites seem to think it’s OK to park anywhere they wish, blocking emergency routs or making the roads around the show site impassable for local residences etc, forcing the event organisers to pay even more to the local constabulary for additional policing.

If we don’t support these shows by buying a ticket they will close down, its as simple as that.

Any FREEDOADERS are welcome to make they views known.

Ian
 
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Gary Coyle

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#6
How about the hillside being the best place to watch, those watching from there cant help if its a public place, i understand the need for these things to be paid for but seriously, freeloaders.

They didnt ask for the airshow to be put on and you cant force a payment from for being in a public place, obviously it would be nice if they contributed but you cant make the pay
 
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#7
Gary, here is a quote from the OPs report

"Last year staff from the show asked for contributions from those watching on the hills overlooking the event.

"People were not for giving much at all and it was noticeable how much copper was in the buckets we'd used and there were hardly any notes,"

I rest my "Freadloaders" case, people wanting something for nothing.

Ian
 
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David Martin
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#8
The Lowestoft 2 day Airshow is no longer. It was free entry and there were collection buckets to help fund the following year. The show attracted 250,000 people over the 2 days and the majority felt they shouldn't have to pay anything. The event ran for something like 14 years. Just 50p per person would have funded the following show.
 
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#9
I am convinced that the “FREELOADERS” mentioned in this report or those who do not pay entry fees to any air show will be the first to complain when these events are all forced to closed due to lack of funding. They do not realise the huge expense of staging these shows, nor do they give a monkeys about the 1000s of volunteers who give up their time to help out, nor the charities that these events support.

We see it here from time to time, Freeloaders starting threads asking other TP members for information on the best places to view X air show from outside the parameter fence as they don’t want to pay to get in, yet you see how much they invest on camera gear.

Another a huge problem with certain shows are these parasites seem to think it’s OK to park anywhere they wish, blocking emergency routs or making the roads around the show site impassable for local residences etc, forcing the event organisers to pay even more to the local constabulary for additional policing.

If we don’t support these shows by buying a ticket they will close down, its as simple as that.

Any FREEDOADERS are welcome to make they views known.

Ian
Sorry to be a bit off topic but how do I 'Like' Ian's above post, like most other different websites do, where you click on 'Like' button or give a thumb-up?

And my views on his options? He's got my vote!
 
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Rich
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#10
I used to enjoy the Folkestone show, don't remember any collection though. would have happily bunged a few quid in
 
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Thomas
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#11
Unfortunately being an air show by its very nature it's very public - the planes are in the air for everyone to see for free for miles around. Last year the Vulcan flew over my workshop, very low and slow. I stood out and gawped and enjoyed it very much for those few minutes.

Does that make me a freeloader?

Someone, somewhere has made a business case for these shows, based either on sponsorship, or entrance fees. Either it works, or it doesn't work. It's a commercial enterprise. People are free to park (legally) wherever they want and they're free to snap photos from wherever they want too.

I watch the Cowes Week fireworks and enjoy the Red Arrows when they display before the event. I wouldn't put my hand in my pocket for either of those - the fireworks are put on for the visiting yachties and I've already paid of the Red Arrows in my taxes.

Folks can have a passing interest in something without putting their hand in their pocket - it doesn't make them freeloaders, it makes them potential donors and people who might get interested in due course.

Calling people who don't donate to something like this (or you don't know have) 'parasites' is bang out of order. The idea of charity is you give what you can, when you can and you support what you feel is just. It doesn't stop you enjoying the public spectacle put on (often very much for their own pleasure) by those closely involved in something.

All sounding a bit too precious about things for my liking.
 
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Brian
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#13
Someone, somewhere has made a business case for these shows, based either on sponsorship, or entrance fees. Either it works, or it doesn't work. It's a commercial enterprise. People are free to park (legally) wherever they want and they're free to snap photos from wherever they want too.
The whole article is PR spin to justify increasing the pricing to make it viable.

Either run the event and charge a sustainable cost or go bust, don't try and blame poor business practices on people watching from outside :shrug:
 
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Mike
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#15
Answer is simple really; put somethig on INSIDE the show ground worth the entry fee, surely.

Its like the premium price charged for ring-side seats, or a box at the opera.

You stage a spectacular over a few hundred square miles of visible air-space; you cannot expect every-one who might be able to see it to pay!

So what's going on onside?
Can get up close and touchy feelie with the hardware?
Do you get special ground demonstrations, displays or added commentry?
Do you get decent facilities? Toilets? Catering?

Far too often 'events' are there own worst enemy; over commercialised; the fee-paying customers are treated as a captive audience to be fleeced of every penny they have brought with them, whilst having to que for sub-standard builders bogs.

Cornber shop in the village, Corneto is a quid. Thats still three times the price of a pack of four at the super-market, so why is the same ice-cream cone £2.50... after you have paid a fiver or whatever for the privilidge of getting in?

I am not an aircraft buff, but a Dad, and it is gauling; I go to an event, and there is pound-land tat being pushed at the kids for three or four times its worth, JUST because its at an event... I mean it wouldn't be so bad if it was even event related; but most of it isn't.... and what is? Again, same sort of hyped mark up.

Once uipon a time you went to a motorbike rally, or to a car show; there would be trade stands, and they would take along stuff related to the event, and a lot of it would be punted out at 'show-prices'.. maybe stock clerance or whatever... but; I remember few years back, going to a bike show, I wanted a new jacket, about £75's worth; get a 'show special' paid your entry; every one happy with the bargain... Now? Traders, NOT what the show should be about,m but that bit of icing... is what it ALL seems to be about, and the stand prices are the same or higher than in the shop!

Sorry.... BUT... you want people to pay to enter, give them some reason to enter, and charging to park at the beginning isn;t a good way to start; selling the stand prices to whoever puts in the higest bid, not a great way to go; selling most stands to traders, not exhibitors... nope.

It does not make the paying public feel like they are getting VFM when they end up paying for the privilidge of being sold to, and played for mugs in the process.

I have been to some BRILIANT events in recent years in the biking world; and the best have been NON-COMMERCIAL club events; where catering has been provided by who-ever has offered the best grub for the least cost, not who'd pay the highest pitch fee; where the stands flogging stuff have been unobtrusive amongst the ones telling you or showing you stuff.

I PAY for entertainment.

I dont want to PAY to go somewhere to be 'sold' to.

Free-loader?

No. I am a person. An enthusiast of whatever the events subject is; not merely a frigging 'consumer' to keep sticking my hand in my pocket!

Want a successful, commercially viable event?

ENTERTAIN & INFORM.... don't 'sell'.

Put on stuff IN the paid for entry area worth paying the entry fee.... and to 99.9% of event organisers out there.... Get MORE BLUDY BOGS and keep the damn things CLEAN!

err.... yeah... I went to the town gala today... and yes I was gauled by the toilet facilities! But hey.. at least entry was free..... some-what makes up for the rather inflated vending stand prices... but doesn't entirely excuse them, hang on.. I paid for this field in my council tax? So how come they are charging some-one rent by the square foot on it to sell me an over-priced hot-dog?!?

Events? If commercial need to be commercially viable. And putting up entry because people aren't going in? Well, thats the event organisers call; but basic business says, sales decrease with price, and there is an optimum price which maximises sales; if people are NOT buying, says your price is too high, and rasing it will only lower sales.... So ponder your marketing strategy... either make the event worth the entry, lower it to get the folk through the turnstyle in the numbers needed... and if that means free, make it free.... make your money on the concessions IF you can... or dont bother. THAT is why its called 'Commercial Venture'.... sink or swim.
 
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Paul
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#16
Answer is simple really; put something on INSIDE the show ground worth the entry fee, surely.
Nail. Head.

You're always going to get people who won't pay money for something they can get for free. That's why Piratebay and the like do a roaring trade. The people that need tempting are the ones who are on the fence about paying. Give them stuff that they can't get for free that adds value to their experience and you'll make money.
 
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rab
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#17
would i pay £5 to go see a air display ? yes automotive shows charge from £5-£14 depending on the venue and type of show thats from the gen public now not them all but a lot also charge you for displaying you car/bike?any where from £10-£15 now if you look at it that way £5 is not a lot
 
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#18
would i pay £5 to go see a air display ? yes automotive shows charge from £5-£14 depending on the venue and type of show thats from the gen public now not them all but a lot also charge you for displaying you car/bike?any where from £10-£15 now if you look at it that way £5 is not a lot
No, £5 isn't a lot; and if you are young, free and single, or established with mortgage paid & kids left home, your disposeable income all your own, probably pea-nuts. If you are a Father, though, that £5 is not £5, that's £5 per person.... OK, family ticket is £15... if it 'fits' your family.... if your 'family' is Two Adults, a geriatric auntie, one kid under 14 and one over... still could be £5 per person, which DAD has to find ALL of... making it a £25 entry fee, from a belegured budget stretched to fund whatever other demands the family put on it.

But doesn't matter; irrespective of the gate-price... there ought to be something inside worth that money.

And you can rank the 'value' against whatever other 'event' and what they charge as you like.... bottom line is most of those events the stuff you want to see, and are paying for is INSIDE and can only be seen from inside after paying the gate money..... you put on a bludy AIR-SHOW...... it's only common bludy sense that people are going to be able to see it from outside; so if you want them to come IN... you have to give them something extra to get the money from them!
 

MWHCVT

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#19
It's funny reading this...for the last couple of years I've gone to a local fireworks display to photograph it now IMO the best position is in a field a little away from the display, I noticed last year there were far more people up in that location, and this last year they sent bucket shakers up, I've donated both years I've been as I'm seeing the show but not paying the ticket price as anywhere in the ticket area would be useless to me. I've no issue with giving a really good donation :)
 

Gary Coyle

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#21
Gary, here is a quote from the OPs report

"Last year staff from the show asked for contributions from those watching on the hills overlooking the event.

"People were not for giving much at all and it was noticeable how much copper was in the buckets we'd used and there were hardly any notes,"

I rest my "Freadloaders" case, people wanting something for nothing.

Ian
I fully understand Ian, however, you cant make them contribute, they didnt ask for the event to be put on.

Maybe the organisers should get hold of the land owners (possibly local council)
 

Gary Coyle

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#22
Unfortunately being an air show by its very nature it's very public - the planes are in the air for everyone to see for free for miles around. Last year the Vulcan flew over my workshop, very low and slow. I stood out and gawped and enjoyed it very much for those few minutes.

Does that make me a freeloader?

Someone, somewhere has made a business case for these shows, based either on sponsorship, or entrance fees. Either it works, or it doesn't work. It's a commercial enterprise. People are free to park (legally) wherever they want and they're free to snap photos from wherever they want too.

I watch the Cowes Week fireworks and enjoy the Red Arrows when they display before the event. I wouldn't put my hand in my pocket for either of those - the fireworks are put on for the visiting yachties and I've already paid of the Red Arrows in my taxes.

Folks can have a passing interest in something without putting their hand in their pocket - it doesn't make them freeloaders, it makes them potential donors and people who might get interested in due course.

Calling people who don't donate to something like this (or you don't know have) 'parasites' is bang out of order. The idea of charity is you give what you can, when you can and you support what you feel is just. It doesn't stop you enjoying the public spectacle put on (often very much for their own pleasure) by those closely involved in something.

All sounding a bit too precious about things for my liking.
Exactly (y)
 
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Mark
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#24
i don't mind paying for the air shows i think it's worth every penny especially the larger events ( RIAT , Farnborough , cosford ect.. ) bearing in mind the air displays are geared for the spectators within the boundaries of the event being outside that boundary doesn't allow you to see the whole display as the pilots / coordinators intended so just for that privilege i'l pay
where else can you see something like an f22 raptor take off do a spectacular Arial display and land so close in front of you

cosford was 20 quid ( 25 quid on the gate ) this year and had record crowds i would say airshows are getting more popular the ones which are failing musn't have much on offer or they would attract the crowds
a few of these shows allow under 16's in for free with paying adults but in my experience it's not really something kids want to go to in general ( or the wife for that matter )
every one iv'e been to iv'e always seen people in the surrounding fields the farmers usually rent them out as car parks i would say the people that use these have no intention of paying the gate fee so no lost revenue there really
 
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Haakon
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#25
perhaps with Focus gone they could re-employ a few of the models / "PR" people on stands within the confines of the show - then all the beardy long lens toting middle aged men will come in droves.... :LOL:
 
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#26
Unfortunately being an air show by its very nature it's very public - the planes are in the air for everyone to see for free for miles around. Last year the Vulcan flew over my workshop, very low and slow. I stood out and gawped and enjoyed it very much for those few minutes.

Does that make me a freeloader?

Someone, somewhere has made a business case for these shows, based either on sponsorship, or entrance fees. Either it works, or it doesn't work. It's a commercial enterprise. People are free to park (legally) wherever they want and they're free to snap photos from wherever they want too.

I watch the Cowes Week fireworks and enjoy the Red Arrows when they display before the event. I wouldn't put my hand in my pocket for either of those - the fireworks are put on for the visiting yachties and I've already paid of the Red Arrows in my taxes.

Folks can have a passing interest in something without putting their hand in their pocket - it doesn't make them freeloaders, it makes them potential donors and people who might get interested in due course.

Calling people who don't donate to something like this (or you don't know have) 'parasites' is bang out of order. The idea of charity is you give what you can, when you can and you support what you feel is just. It doesn't stop you enjoying the public spectacle put on (often very much for their own pleasure) by those closely involved in something.

All sounding a bit too precious about things for my liking.
Well said. (y)
 
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Paul
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#27
Unfortunately being an air show by its very nature it's very public - the planes are in the air for everyone to see for free for miles around. Last year the Vulcan flew over my workshop, very low and slow. I stood out and gawped and enjoyed it very much for those few minutes.

Does that make me a freeloader?

Someone, somewhere has made a business case for these shows, based either on sponsorship, or entrance fees. Either it works, or it doesn't work. It's a commercial enterprise. People are free to park (legally) wherever they want and they're free to snap photos from wherever they want too.

I watch the Cowes Week fireworks and enjoy the Red Arrows when they display before the event. I wouldn't put my hand in my pocket for either of those - the fireworks are put on for the visiting yachties and I've already paid of the Red Arrows in my taxes.

Folks can have a passing interest in something without putting their hand in their pocket - it doesn't make them freeloaders, it makes them potential donors and people who might get interested in due course.

Calling people who don't donate to something like this (or you don't know have) 'parasites' is bang out of order. The idea of charity is you give what you can, when you can and you support what you feel is just. It doesn't stop you enjoying the public spectacle put on (often very much for their own pleasure) by those closely involved in something.

All sounding a bit too precious about things for my liking.
Agree with all that but don't think this event has any link to a charity. It's purely commercial isn't it?
Anyway I wasn't there, paid to go to watch touring cars for the weekend :)
 
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#28
Unfortunately being an air show by its very nature it's very public - the planes are in the air for everyone to see for free for miles around. Last year the Vulcan flew over my workshop, very low and slow. I stood out and gawped and enjoyed it very much for those few minutes.

Does that make me a freeloader?

Ah....

If the Vulcan was going from A to B and it had to fly over your workshop, and you watched it, it is a chance and you are not a freeloader. The Vulcan is not in service so it is not tax-payers paying for it anymore, so if you want to donate to the Vulcan in the Sky project, that is your choice, if you don't want to donate, that is your choice, and it still won't make you a freeloader if your taxes is not paying for it nor do you wish to donate to it. But the Vulcan had to go somewhere and it just happens to fly over you, it's just a chance.

If you live right at the edge of the airport or airbase, and end up seeing an airshow that is going on, right on your doorstep, every year, you are still not a freeloader, if you wish to donate, great, if you don't want to donate, don't worry, you are still not a freeloader. It just happens that you lived there, it can't be helped.

If you chose to go to buy a ticket and go into the airshow, you get to see the Vulcan close up, you get to see any other aircraft, sometimes you would be allowed to go into the cargo hold of a Hercules, sometimes you would be allowed in a cockpit, and you can ask pilots questions, as a tax-payer, you have the rights to see what you are paying for.

But...

In my option, an airshow is planned well in advance, and if you chose to go over to the airport or airfield and sit outside the fence, or go up the hills and watch it from there, it is not a chance, it is not a luck that the Vulcan flew over you, you knew those planes would fly around, so you chose to go and watch it for free. The people inside the airbase who paid for their tickets are not really just paying to get a closer view of the aircraft or to get front seats or to chat to a pilot, some parts of the cost of the tickets had to go towards fuel for the aircraft (not every aircraft will be public and paid by taxes as most of them will be private such as the Vulcan), some parts of the ticket have to go to so and so.

It is no different from say, the fans pay tickets to watch a football match, part of the sales of the tickets goes to the club, and to pay the football players, so the fans are paying for it, but you chose to stay outside the grounds, and climb up a tall tree, and sit on the top of the tree, and get to watch a football match without paying.

Okay, maybe not freeloader, but airshows would not happen if it wasn't for people who paid the tickets to watch, without them paying for the tickets, there would be no airshow, so you could not have watched aircraft for free, but they did pay the tickets, aircraft get flow, and you watched for free. See? For you to not have watched the aircraft for free, the aircraft would not be flying, and if they're not flying, most of the public would not be paying tickets. They pay, aircraft flies, you watch. They don't pay, aircraft don't fly, you got nothing to watch.
 
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Ollie
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#29
I think there needs to be things to attract people in, if people dont know if theyre gonna be interested in something and its free theyre much more likely to go in and spend some money. If you have to pay then people dont wanna risk it, theres nothing to lose by putting things on for free; a greater footfall means more people are likely to pay inside the event, for food/drink, merchandise and whatever else they sell, which means traders are more likely to come back next year which means more money from the traders to have their spot in the event towards the organisers.
If you charge then people are unlikely to go in on a whim, theyre probably gonna be more unlikely to spend money inside after paying an entrance fee too, especially when a lot of the stuff is overpriced junk.
 
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