Frustrated... fed-up... disillusioned... disheartened

dubcat

dubcat

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Amir
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I took my twins to a joint birthday party with all the other kids in our NCT group. About 8 families in total. We had it in a small church hall and the ceiling was angled rather than flat so i could not get bounce flash to work. The walls were coated in notice boards and other stuff so i couldn't bounce off the walls either. It took me a while to work out that the best option was just to bump up the iso to 800 and shoot natural light.

So - I snapped a few pics. Some were a bit grainy and others were ok. As i sharpened in post processing i noticed the grainyness go up a bit but i figured this is just the cost of shooting high iso and carried on. Due to being forced to shoot at wide open apertures i found a lot of blurryness in a lot of my pictures too as I couldn't get everything I wanted to in to focus. Also I was trying to shoot at the slowest shutter speed i could get away with in order to get more light on to the sensor.. again often resulting in some blurring as i got the speed slightly too slow.

Meanwhile - one of the mums at the event posted 80 pictures on to snapfish taken with her point and shoot the same night (no post processing required)... all were brilliantly exposed... all were pin sharp. She got brilliant shots - candids and posed... and she couldn't care less about photography.

In summary - I spent ages trying to take pictures with my very expensive equipment and then spent ages post-processing to get some blurry and a bit grainy pictures. She spent minutes snapping pictures which were pin sharp and very nicely exposed.

First comment out of my wife's mouth? "why can't you take pictures like that with your big expensive camera..."

I feel crap :( I am really embarrassed that I spent so much on a camera and lenses... I totally failed, even after a year of ownership, to utilise them even remotely close to their capabilities :( I feel like a bit of a fake to be honest...
Dub
 
You don't always have to bounse the flash, point it towards the subject and set it for a low power fill shot can give you enough light to shoot how you want but not enough to wash it out.

Had you of set your camera to auto, you'd of got good shots too. But as a photographer, you want to get great shots using good techniques and understand how you got the results.

Post a few images and we can help out. I had similar results at a friends wedding of the greeting line, low light, crappy D60 with bad ISO = lots of noise. Didn't think of using on the on camera flash for fill light (don't have a proper flash yet). Ran them through noise ninja and rescued a few, but weren't great.

We learn through our mistakes. Be happy that this was a learning experience for you and you know that next time you will do better :D
 
Have a try of a diffuser another time. You can fire it direct but it diffuses the light so no harsh shadows.. and as said above, turn the flash down if necessary.

There are lots to choose from .
 
I had a stofen omnibouce attached but from everything I have read diffusers work by redirecting some of that light. The light then bounces off walls and other objects to hit the target from a different angle to the directly aimed light of the flash softening the effect of the light. Since there was very little for the diffracted light to bounce off of I found that all the diffuser did was effectively make the flash work harder for the same effect as an un-diffused flash.

I did try pointing the flash direct at the target - but just found the light was quite harsh. I did turn the flash power down with exposure compensation to try and soften the harshness... but i was still finding the background to be very dark. So, i tried increasing the exposure time to make more of the background come up and this SORT of worked but not brilliantly to be honest...

As I write this I realise two things:

a) I have lots of 'theory' about photography in my head but don't seem to be able to apply it sensibly

b) I should have just gone to full auto mode and seen what happened - the reality is that I have never ever used my camera in auto mode...

Sorry to sound like such a whining baby.. i just feel really dumb and useless at the moment.

Dub
 
Janice said:
Have a try of a diffuser another time. You can fire it direct but it diffuses the light so no harsh shadows.. and as said above, turn the flash down if necessary.

There are lots to choose from .
Click to expand...

I second that, good advice from Janice.

Pick up a Stofen for about £10-15, they're bloody great. They really take the potentially harsh edge off direct flash. Min hasn't been off my 580EX2 since I got it.

Also, try a little negative Flash exposure compensation. It makes things look much more natural. My use of flash is to enable the shot to be taken, not necessarily to completely illuminate the scene. It takes a lot of practice, like all things, but it pays off in the end.
 
Thanks Chris - I did try -2/3 FEC... then the whole scene got a bit too dark.. so then i did try compensating by increasing ISO (aperture was already full open).. but by the time i got through faffing around the event was over :(
 
Dub, I feel your pain!

I went to a 40th party with my big camera, big lens and off camera flash and got some rubbish results. Black walls, black ceilings and a skin full of beer were mostly to blame!

We all have good says and bad days, don't beat yourself up too much about it.
 
dubcat said:
I took my twins to a joint birthday party with all the other kids in our NCT group. About 8 families in total. We had it in a small church hall and the ceiling was angled rather than flat so i could not get bounce flash to work. The walls were coated in notice boards and other stuff so i couldn't bounce off the walls either. It took me a while to work out that the best option was just to bump up the iso to 800 and shoot natural light.

So - I snapped a few pics. Some were a bit grainy and others were ok. As i sharpened in post processing i noticed the grainyness go up a bit but i figured this is just the cost of shooting high iso and carried on. Due to being forced to shoot at wide open apertures i found a lot of blurryness in a lot of my pictures too as I couldn't get everything I wanted to in to focus. Also I was trying to shoot at the slowest shutter speed i could get away with in order to get more light on to the sensor.. again often resulting in some blurring as i got the speed slightly too slow.

Meanwhile - one of the mums at the event posted 80 pictures on to snapfish taken with her point and shoot the same night (no post processing required)... all were brilliantly exposed... all were pin sharp. She got brilliant shots - candids and posed... and she couldn't care less about photography.

In summary - I spent ages trying to take pictures with my very expensive equipment and then spent ages post-processing to get some blurry and a bit grainy pictures. She spent minutes snapping pictures which were pin sharp and very nicely exposed.

First comment out of my wife's mouth? "why can't you take pictures like that with your big expensive camera..."

I feel crap :( I am really embarrassed that I spent so much on a camera and lenses... I totally failed, even after a year of ownership, to utilise them even remotely close to their capabilities :( I feel like a bit of a fake to be honest...
Dub
Click to expand...

i have just witnessed this in my own shots taken in ambient light with light fill flash....in a church...noisy and blurred at times
my daughter took some..with a 10Mp nikon point and shoot..the flash was on all the time...its all set on friendly shooting and auto flash...hers were more useful and dropped me in a real trough of despair....

i cant fault my camera as i took some at home in ambient and there was no noise...
i will have to master it as i take photos in the church regularly for the childrens parties and praise meetings....i may go for full flash rather than cut down with ambient...unless the lighting in there is better
final word...:lol:...believe me...the church lighting is some kind of sodium or other...but when i set my speed at 1/30 the viewfinder image oscilates...so i shot the whole at 1/25 or 1/20 hand held hence the blurry bits but couldnt figure out the reason for the noise...i was using 100 iso

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finished
 
i know how you feel, perhaps not with my own photography at the moment but i know what you mean as i too have definitely had this feeling with other things in life!

but to me it sounds like you are worrying too much about settings and such. my advice is stick it on shutter priority to make sure you dont get too many blurs and use auto iso. and just snap away. just snapping away im sure you will get better at compositional work. dont worry about noise and slightly under/over exposures as this really isnt what makes a photo "good"

also good tip earlier in the thread about rear sync flash.
 
Sparkoss what was that about rear sync flash? I think i missed that...
 
sparkoss said:
i know how you feel, perhaps not with my own photography at the moment but i know what you mean as i too have definitely had this feeling with other things in life!

but to me it sounds like you are worrying too much about settings and such. my advice is stick it on shutter priority to make sure you dont get too many blurs and use auto iso. and just snap away. just snapping away im sure you will get better at compositional work. dont worry about noise and slightly under/over exposures as this really isnt what makes a photo "good"

also good tip earlier in the thread about rear sync flash.
Click to expand...

thanks ..i will use that on the next session...
 
ChrisJ_SLH said:
I second that, good advice from Janice.

Also, try a little negative Flash exposure compensation. It makes things look much more natural. My use of flash is to enable the shot to be taken, not necessarily to completely illuminate the scene. It takes a lot of practice, like all things, but it pays off in the end.
Click to expand...

it was this, i thought chris meant rear sync at first but its great advice. i think chris means put the flash on manual and have it at a very low power just to provide a small amount of fill light to the scene.

and try rear sync flash too.
 
Ok thanks for the tips.. you are definitely right about focussing on the composition etc more than the buttons. I'll take your advice and the other advice offered to increase my hit-rate of good photo's.
 
Don't know what gear you are using Dub but I generally use either Manual or Tv when using the 580EXII.

In Manual, set the aperture and shutter speed as desired and let the flash sort out the light for the exposure. As I said before winding the FEC back a little can help stop the scene look like it is awash with flash light.

Also, even with the stofen attached I don't usually point it straight at the subjects.
 
I personally hate using a Stofen, I find it to be not a lot better than using a 'naked' flash so to speak.
 
dubcat said:
I took my twins to a joint birthday party with all the other kids in our NCT group. About 8 families in total. We had it in a small church hall and the ceiling was angled rather than flat so i could not get bounce flash to work. The walls were coated in notice boards and other stuff so i couldn't bounce off the walls either. It took me a while to work out that the best option was just to bump up the iso to 800 and shoot natural light.

So - I snapped a few pics. Some were a bit grainy and others were ok. As i sharpened in post processing i noticed the grainyness go up a bit but i figured this is just the cost of shooting high iso and carried on. Due to being forced to shoot at wide open apertures i found a lot of blurryness in a lot of my pictures too as I couldn't get everything I wanted to in to focus. Also I was trying to shoot at the slowest shutter speed i could get away with in order to get more light on to the sensor.. again often resulting in some blurring as i got the speed slightly too slow.

Meanwhile - one of the mums at the event posted 80 pictures on to snapfish taken with her point and shoot the same night (no post processing required)... all were brilliantly exposed... all were pin sharp. She got brilliant shots - candids and posed... and she couldn't care less about photography.

In summary - I spent ages trying to take pictures with my very expensive equipment and then spent ages post-processing to get some blurry and a bit grainy pictures. She spent minutes snapping pictures which were pin sharp and very nicely exposed.

First comment out of my wife's mouth? "why can't you take pictures like that with your big expensive camera..."

I feel crap :( I am really embarrassed that I spent so much on a camera and lenses... I totally failed, even after a year of ownership, to utilise them even remotely close to their capabilities :( I feel like a bit of a fake to be honest...
Dub
Click to expand...



mate, thats what wives do.... everytime mine nags me about photography, i go out and buy another bit of gear.

thats how i ended up with 2 x 5D MKII's, a 70-200 2.8 IS, 24-70 2.8 lol!
 
Little trick for you :)

I call it the 8-6-4 rule.

ISO 800 1/60 sec f4. Stick the flash on ETTL and off you go.

The blackness you describe is due to you not having enough ambient light so your subject if flash lit only. In summer drop the ISO to 200.

Try it for indoors work. It just works :)
 
You want to try motorsport, 5k worth of gear, blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry, blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,
good one,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry, blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry :D

for the grainy shots you've taken try running them through noise ninja, you can download and try it for free to see if it improves them but to save without a watermark you'll need to buy a licence

http://www.picturecode.com/
 
Thanks for all the great tips - AliB i'll definitely try that rule :)
 
AliB said:
Little trick for you :)

I call it the 8-6-4 rule.

F8, 1/60 sec ISO400. Stick the flash on ETTL and off you go.

The blackness you describe is due to you not having enough ambient light so your subject if flash lit only. In summer drop the ISO to 200.

Try it for indoors work. It just works :)
Click to expand...

I have done this too and it is a good tip. I normally set FEC -2/3 too!
 
Nothing to bounce on? You could also make your own bounce card with funky foam from The Range. (30p per A4 sheet)

Peter Gregg shows you how here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNCmuExlHvM

Used this basic bounce card before to good effect. Great at venues with high ceilings/coloured walls etc.
 
I think we've all been there - really, it's just a blip. Harvey Nikon is right - you know the theory and want to apply it, if you'd shot on auto, you would have had different shots too, but the thing is you didn't because you wanted to think for yourself and on this occasion you didn't get it quite right. All part of a learning curve, that's all. Don't be too disheartened, so this time you didn't get it right - but that doesn't mean that you failed or that you're no good, just that one time you got it wrng - it happens to everyone x
 
I feel much better now. Thanks all. Key learnings are to not be scared of the auto setting, 8-6-4 rule, and home made bounce card. I should also remember to keep a light stand and my bounce umbrella in my car :)
 
wack61 said:
You want to try motorsport, 5k worth of gear, blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry, blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,
good one,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry, blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry :D
Click to expand...

Speak for yourself. For me it's:

blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,good one, blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,
good one,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry, blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry,blurry

;) :D
 
dubcat said:
I feel much better now. Thanks all. Key learnings are to not be scared of the auto setting, 8-6-4 rule, and home made bounce card. I should also remember to keep a light stand and my bounce umbrella in my car :)
Click to expand...

:D I hope that's not a touch of sarcasm there ;)

Believe me we have all been there and sometimes return there :eek:
Keep learning and you will exceed the P&S'ters hands down. It's just a matter of finding and employing what works for you. With practice you will get there.
 
Lol it really was not sarcasm. I do have a cheap light stand and reflective umbrella. I should have the confidence to use them in public :)
 
I should have the confidence to use them in public
Click to expand...

I know what you mean! Going through a bad patch myself tbh, just a matter of getting my confidence back! But I know I will! :)

Stiff upper lip and all that...;)
 
I've only been back into photography for 5 weeks (bloody hell, it feels much longer than that) and I can only really count those on 5 weekends - I've had good and bad patches already. :shake:

I think it's just that catch with art, the goods are great and the bads are terrifying. Being a somewhat on-off musician I can say quite easily say you get some days where your playing just can't be compared to another day and everything you do works (for readers of Stephen King's Dreamcatcher we call that 'seeing the line') and other days you may as well stop playing after 10 minutes since it's just not your day.

The difference is when you're getting paid for it you have to be consistent and aware of your ability in both positive and negative and just do it. I know when the crowd cheers, I play better. :thumbs:

There is also the massive point that noone seems to have mentioned with the progression of P+S cameras and cameras in general. Some of the shots I've seen with some P+S has made me look twice and even try and look at the EXIF data, then getting out my camera to see what the hell is going on... they really are making those things so they shoot themselves. I could probably get away with saying that most (not all) people who go and buy themselves a P+S aren't worried about ISO:Noise ratio, continuous shooting speeds, lens compatibility, sensor size, whether it's a Canon or a Nikon... - they just want to know how much it is, if it looks nice and if the picture looks good when they click the button. :shrug: Coupled with the huge demand and market dominance it allows for a lot to be invested in making them better while still keeping the costs low.
 
some good tips above and heres another one..

take your wife out for dinner, when the food arrives say "wow! now why cant you make food this good with all that expensive kitchen equipment?!"

that should shut her up ;)

:D
 
neil_g said:
some good tips above and heres another one..

take your wife out for dinner, when the food arrives say "wow! now why cant you make food this good with all that expensive kitchen equipment?!"

that should shut her up ;)

:D
Click to expand...
HAhahahaha!
 
neil_g said:
some good tips above and heres another one..

take your wife out for dinner, when the food arrives say "wow! now why cant you make food this good with all that expensive kitchen equipment?!"

that should shut her up ;)

:D
Click to expand...

Best. Post. Ever!!

:D

Will your local camera shop let you trade her in for some new kit?
 
ChrisJ_SLH said:
Don't know what gear you are using Dub but I generally use either Manual or Tv when using the 580EXII.

In Manual, set the aperture and shutter speed as desired and let the flash sort out the light for the exposure. As I said before winding the FEC back a little can help stop the scene look like it is awash with flash light.

Also, even with the stofen attached I don't usually point it straight at the subjects.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much what works for me - manual mode, set aperture and exposure to what you need to get the photos sharp, then let the flash do the rest. Bump up the ISO if the flash isn't powerful enough or to save batteries. I wouldn't go higher than ISO 400 unless really I had to, though.
Also, I'd bounce the flash off a white card or something similar.

This proved on a wedding (I had my camera there just in case...) and on a few indoor birthday parties and I had a rather high keeper rate.

Shoot raw, in case you'd accidentally set exposure compensation to an undesired value ;)
 
It's nowt to do with any of the above. What happened was that you were with NCT people. It's well known that NCT sucks any science and logic out of a room and therefore destroys the laws of physics- basically the light just didn't know what to do with itself!

In all seriousness though, some great advice in this thread, especially 8-6-4. I will use that myself!
 
I hear you mate, but would you really want those point and shoot shots? Of course its easy to get properly exposed, non blurry P&S shots. The sensors are tiny so the DOF is massive and the flash is straight on, blasting everyone with flat light. So they will be a perfect record of the event but that isn't what we're after as photographers is it?

In those difficult conditions your hit rate is going to be very low, especially when you factor in fast moving kids.
 
I had my first 'proper' go at 'event' photography for my fiancee's 30th birthday.

It would appear that I got absolutely ratted, as I don't remember what settings I used, whether I used bounce or direct flash, or even taking the pictures. But I was pleasantly surprised the next morning* to see some decent shots.

So, in conclusion, get amazingly drunk first.


*of course, by 'morning' I mean 'afternoon'. In bed. Feeling horrendous.
 
neil_g said:
some good tips above and heres another one..

take your wife out for dinner, when the food arrives say "wow! now why cant you make food this good with all that expensive kitchen equipment?!"

that should shut her up ;)

:D
Click to expand...

I love it :thumbs: :thumbs:
 
neil_g said:
some good tips above and heres another one..

take your wife out for dinner, when the food arrives say "wow! now why cant you make food this good with all that expensive kitchen equipment?!"

that should shut her up ;)

:D
Click to expand...

Hahaha fantastic :) made me lol in the office.
 
neil_g said:
some good tips above and heres another one..

take your wife out for dinner, when the food arrives say "wow! now why cant you make food this good with all that expensive kitchen equipment?!"

that should shut her up ;)

:D
Click to expand...

Love it! :lol:

How does this 8-6-4 rule work then?

F8 - sharpest (probably) aperture?
60 - slow enough to avoid camera shake (probably)?
ISO 400 - High as you'd want to go without too much noise?

Or is there some magic here? :)
 
Hey Dub
dont feel bad forever...learn from it, be a bit softer on yourself and think ahead next for the worse poss situation and prepare a bit more...
i guess with a lot of us having big do-it-all cameras is that we try to make every opportunity count...i started out as a printer, then assistant, then weddings and now studio based portrait work..trust me, i have had my fair share of serious cock ups and confidence busting times...its made me stronger, it made me think more and prepare better...
when shooting weddings i always got asked.."what happens if you're ill"...well the obvious will happen i think but i would say to them, what happens if your car breaks down, what happens if the groom is sick all day long (it has happened), what happens if your 2 tier heart shaped cake falls butter side down before the cake shot? (it has happened)..fact is, thing go belly up..next time you may get the technique spot on but you subjects may not play ball....
Chin up dude, take the bad with good and let it make you a better tog!!
 
AliB said:
Little trick for you :)

I call it the 8-6-4 rule.

F8, 1/60 sec ISO400. Stick the flash on ETTL and off you go.

The blackness you describe is due to you not having enough ambient light so your subject if flash lit only. In summer drop the ISO to 200.

Try it for indoors work. It just works :)
Click to expand...

What's ETTL?
 
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