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Cobra

Cobra

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What actually is in your house?
Let me explain a little I'm done with BT and their FTTC and ancient copper wire to my house.

Some months ago the external wiring was all replaced from the underground junction box, ( outside my house in the verge)

There is fiber at the end of the drive and I'm sure that its easy to run the fiber the same route.
But I'm a little concerned, will the hook up the fiber to that BT junction box, ( or even replace that with one of their own)
I wonder, or will they not listen to what I say, and put it somewhere else that is of no real use?

Will it just go to a new hub, that sits on top of my PC ?

I've no idea how it works TBH and no one I know actually has FFTP ( we are all oldies here :D ) that I can ask.

There is few companies that supply the lines through city fiber the best value seems to be Vodafone.
Less than I'm paying now £22/ month, / 2 year contract, for 50% faster speeds.
 
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Cobra said:
What actually is in your house?
Let me explain a little I'm done with BT and their FTTC and ancient copper wire to my house.

Some months ago the external wiring was all replaced from the underground junction box, ( outside my house in the verge)

There is fiber at the end of the drive and I'm sure that its easy to run the fiber the same route.
But I'm a little concerned, will the hook up the fiber to that BT junction box, ( or even replace that with one of their own)
I wonder, or will they not listen to what I say, and put it somewhere else that is of no real use?

Will it just go to a new hub, that sits on top of my PC ?

I've no idea how it works TBH and no one I know actually has FFTP ( we are all oldies here :D ) that I can ask.

There is few companies that supply the lines through city fiber the best value seems to be Vodafone.
Less than I'm paying now £22/ month, / 2 year contract, for 50% faster speeds.
Click to expand...
I am not certain that City Fibre has all their ducks in a row yet.
They installed it in the streets here earlier this year, but very few have it up and running, lots of problems it seems, and they have dug up one place twice since the installed it.
Our connection point in the street is inline with our front door, and to get the fibre to the house, they now have to g through shubs and about 25' of tarred driveway. If they had put it 15' t one side, there would have been an easy route to the house.
Vodaphone keep sending letters, but I have asked them and City Fibre how is the fibre going to be routed to the house, and they don't answer. You ask them for dates and they are quick to follow up.
Have a look on review sites, to me they are not encouraging, yes OK most people who leave reviews leave negative ones, but most of the reviews look like genuine problems.

If they don't answer your question, it is probably because you won't like the answer, otherwise ask them and see if they will put it where you want.
 
Sangoma said:
I am not certain that City Fibre has all their ducks in a row yet.
Click to expand...
There are a few here that are happy at least
Sangoma said:
I have asked them and City Fibre how is the fibre going to be routed to the house, and they don't answer.
Click to expand...
This is my main concern also.
Sangoma said:
Have a look on review sites, to me they are not encouraging,
Click to expand...
Thanks for replying and that'll be my next port of call (y)
The problem I have is reliability, which sadly BT aren't but the speed they respond to my complaints
is pretty quick. Someone accidentally gave me the CEO's office number,,
A quick call and someone coming out tomorrow

As an aside when City fiber laid their lines they cut through my BT line.
BT were out the next day repairing the damage.
City fiber were outside my house the following day, repairing their line that BT seemingly cut through while repairing mine.
I'm sure it was an accident :D
 
We are with Vodafone and just did the switch to FFTP with them.
The fibre cable comes from the pole across the road and goes to a junction/inspection box outside the house which is Openreach responsibility.
From there it goes (fibre) to my router/modem in the hall and that is my/Vodafone responsibility (depends).
I get 100+ download and 18+ upload for £22, which means my pricing has been stable for a number of years as I've queried/argued/moaned every year and am now getting a better, more reliable service for the same I was paying in the beginning.
I have had very few issues with Vodafone over the years and when I have they have been dealt with without too much hassle, hence my remaining with them.
 
FTTP install runs a new fibre cable direct to your home. If you are fed underground they use the same duct. If overhead then they normal replace your wire like for like. They then fit a little grey box called a CSP low down then they run another cable inside to where you want it and add another little white box called an ONT. then both cables are spliced together.
I hope that helps
 
We had FTTP installed a few months ago, fibre to the house via the existing duct for phone line. BT engr asked us where we wanted ONT box in the house then he ran cable around outside of house. The ONT box in the house needs a power supply. Worth checking for deals, we hope to get £100 + from Quidco (should get but usually have to wait months for the payout) and 3 months free sub. No issues so far
 
We have BT FTTP into the house here in Buckingham. The cable was drawn through the existing duct through which the copper line arrived at the house. As Scott says, small grey box on the outside, adjacent to the existing infeed, grey powered box on the inside. From grey box to (new) router. A wireless extender disc was also supplied which I have upstairs connected with a cat5 line as I don't have a wireless connection for my PC. The extender disc also work wirelessly.

Getting 150 download 35 upload. Have a min. of six devices plus smart TV connected, all but PC are wireless- sometimes more when we have visitors.

Anthony
 
We are fed underground, and there is no duct.
City fibre placed the connection point a long way from the existing cable, so even if there was a duct, it could not be used.

We got rid of BT about 18 years ago, This area was built in the 70s when BT had the brainwave to reduce their dependence on copper from Central Africa, and used aluminium.

Every time there was a fault, they would break a cable and create another fault. That is also fed underground from the back of the house, if it worked.

We currently are on Virgin, which after many years of problems (mainly contention) is now reasonable, but they keep upping the price, and needs a long "discussion" every year to get a reasonable price.

Internet service is very third world, though that is unfair, because many third world countries supply a better and fairer service.

I think that is about to change though with City Fibre and others laying cables, the old ones will no longer have a take it or leave it monopoly.
 
I've had BT FTTP for a few years now, I live in a trial area so get stuff first.
Basically the whole line is fiber optic, this goes from the pole in my case to a junction box on the side of the house this then goes to an ONT (Optical Network Termination) under my stairs, this then via a standard network cable goes to the router.
I have the 150mb / 30mb service and it's been absolutely rock solid.
Don't even have a phone line anymore, if you want phone is via the router.

On installation they basically removed the copper wire, ran the fiber, ont and a new router.
 
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My only experience is with BT.

When we went for BT fibre (from the 6Meg down and about 1 Meg up cooper wire)they put a cable from the fibre in the street to the outside of the house. The bloke who did this told us that that when someone comes to fit a box inside the house we could have it anywhere we wanted.

The two PCs(which were wired) are upstairs but without some major redecoration having the fibre router thingy upstairs was not an option, so it is in the front room downstairs and every device(including the two PCs) now connects via wifi.

We have had fibre for about eight months but so far it has been excellent(a speed test a couple of minutes ago showed 135 down and 28 up) and we can get 25 down, 20metres down the garden.

As mentioned above for fibre everything is new.

Dave
 
I dont really understand your post but BT ran fiber all the way to the wall on my house, drilled through the wall, put a box thingy on either side of the wall and then its a cat 6 cable or whatever to the BT box.

Runs like lightning compared to copper, about 200 times faster lol
 
We have Virgin FTTP currently on 100Mbps but has been 200 before I downgraded as I didn't need what I was paying for. However our next house is out in the sticks on a hill and the current owner uses a 3 wifi dongle based on the very striong 4G signal, it seems. Looking into it, Vodafonme seem to offer the best speeds like gramps has quoted, but I believe there is a rollout of gigabit speeds on the way in the next few years - presumably using 5G.
 
lindsay said:
We have Virgin FTTP currently on 100Mbps but has been 200 before I downgraded as I didn't need what I was paying for. However our next house is out in the sticks on a hill and the current owner uses a 3 wifi dongle based on the very striong 4G signal, it seems. Looking into it, Vodafonme seem to offer the best speeds like gramps has quoted, but I believe there is a rollout of gigabit speeds on the way in the next few years - presumably using 5G.
Click to expand...
Didn't know Virgin did fiber. Thought it was all coax with the typical poor pings.
 
Brentor said:
Has been for years. I doubt they could get the same speeds with coax.
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From a technical point of view there is no difference between fiber optic and coax speed wise.
Just different mediums. There was just some extra things virgin did that caused higher pings than the openreach network.
 
I've recently had Virgin fibre installed.
There's a large box across the road. The first team came out and ran a cable under the road, through my front garden to a small box on the front of my house. The second guy installed a small box inside the house which connects to the one on the front of the house.
My virgin hub connects to the small box inside.
I've got the 100mb package and it worked OK, but the WiFi was erratic in signal strength. I bought some mesh units, changed the hub to modem mode and use the mesh network for all my WiFi.
I now get a great signal/speed all over the house and garden. I even get a good signal in my garage.
My previous set up using the bt line was supposed to give me around 32mb but most I got was 16mb. WiFi was poor even with extenders and my outside security camera kept dropping signal.
Everything works great now, and as I'm also an O2 customer I've been upgraded from 30gb data on my mobile to 60gb for free and they're upping my fibre speed from 100mb to 200mb for free.
Their app is crap though, lots of dead links. links to make a complaint don't work. Customer service is also crap.
I eventually got hold of them on chat to sort out the speed upgrade and they said they'd do it. They offered an upgrade to 350mb for an extra £4 but I twice said no as I don't need more.
Received an email an hour later confirming my upgrade to 350mb for an extra £4 a month.
Luckily I kept a note of the guys name and eventually found a complaints number so gave them a call and threatened to cancel my full package and go elsewhere.
All sorted now and doubt I'll have any need to communicate with them until my package expires in 18 months time.....hopefully!
 
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scottwaltonuk said:
I hope that helps
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Cheers yes it does :)
nog said:
BT engr asked us where we wanted ONT box in the house
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Sadly BT does not supply FTTP here.
But he was great installing the new copper wire from the junction box.

Anthony.Ralph said:
We have BT FTTP into the house here in Buckingham.
Click to expand...
And 10 miles down the road, its quite sparse despite being a city ( yes we were upgraded by HRH recently) of technological excellence ( allegedly :(

robj20 said:
this goes from the pole in my case to a junction box on the side of the house this then goes to an ONT (Optical Network Termination) under my stairs, this then via a standard network cable goes to the router.
Click to expand...
Cheers that was the bit I was wondering about.

fujilover said:
I don't really understand your post but BT ran fiber all the way to the wall on my house
Click to expand...
I thought it was pretty simple? That is exactly what I have now via BT BB
My question was, would the fiber company connect to the inside box that BT wired in.

lindsay said:
but I believe there is a rollout of gigabit speeds on the way in the next few years - presumably using 5G.
Click to expand...
There are 5G masts going up around here It seems that a lot of people are complaining about them, as they are slap bang in the middle of housing estates, where by the 4G ones are inherently on the roundabouts.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
I've recently had Virgin fibre installed.
There's a large box across the road. The first team came out and ran a cable under the road, through my front garden to a small box on the front of my house. The second guy installed a small box inside the house which connects to the one on the front of the house.
My virgin hub connects to the small box inside.
I've got the 100mb package and it worked OK, but the WiFi was erratic in signal strength. I bought some mesh units, changed the hub to modem mode and use the mesh network for all my WiFi.
I now get a great signal/speed all over the house and garden. I even get a good signal in my garage.
My previous set up using the bt line was supposed to give me around 32mb but most I got was 16mb. WiFi was poor even with extenders and my outside security camera kept dropping signal.
Everything works great now, and as I'm also an O2 customer I've been upgraded from 30gb data on my mobile to 60gb for free and they're upping my fibre speed from 100mb to 200mb for free.
Their app is crap though, lots of dead links. links to make a complaint don't work. Customer service is also crap.
I eventually got hold of them on chat to sort out the speed upgrade and they said they'd do it. They offered an upgrade to 350mb for an extra £4 but I twice said no as I don't need more.
Received an email an hour later confirming my upgrade to 350mb for an extra £4 a month.
Luckily I kept a note of the guys name and eventually found a complaints number so gave them a call and threatened to cancel my full package and go elsewhere.
All sorted now and doubt I'll have any need to communicate with them until my package expires in 18 months time.....hopefully!
Click to expand...

We have been with Virgin for years , ever since they took over NTL and contrary to lot of people we get good service with very few complaints.
One thing I have noticed is that when your contract expires they put you on a rolling 30 day , both for broadband/ TV and mobile and apart from the annual (3% ish) increase they seem to forget about you and you stay on the same price / contract until you contact them, we are on a cheaper deal than any they are offering at the moment and the contract lapsed some 3 years ago-if it ain't broke don't fix it.
 
Cobra said:
There are 5G masts going up around here It seems that a lot of people are complaining about them, as they are slap bang in the middle of housing estates, where by the 4G ones are inherently on the roundabouts.
Click to expand...
There is a basic technical aspect to 5G that many people overlook. Few people use 4G as their primary internet connection because it's too slow, and obviously, 5G solves this issue but then raises another as so many people will be using it. To make it work effectively, you need lower power transmitters, but more of them, allowing for a better network. This (sort of) happened when the cellular phone system went from analogue to digital. At that time I worked for a company that built the antennas for the cellular sites, and the designs changed to accomodate this.

4G had a few "picocells" (very small low power cells) but 5G will make more use of them, having antennas on street lights etc. At the end of the day, if you want reliable 5G communications, then you're going to have to put up with there being more hardware around built up areas.
 
Realistically there is no one size fits all FTTP suppliers nor a single solution for all premises.

I've just moved to a local provider for local people here. My fibre is delivered underground via the existing Openreach duct. My immediate neighbour to the rear has his delivered overhead via a new drop cable (obviously the 1950s vintage bell wire can't do optical). A friend on the edge of town had a direct buried copper cable feeding his house - now there's a row of pole delivering the fibre overhead to the edge of his plot. If he hadn't provided a duct within the plot he'd have an o/h drop but he has u/g.

Working with a few suppliers at work, the choice is usually to use any existing u/g duct, if no duct available use o/h feed (on the basis of cost), offer their own u/g option (at cost), use a customer provided u/g feed (note that there are consequences under the Communications Act of allowing a licensed operator to put their cable in your duct (essentially it becomes *their* duct except when it needs maintenance, then it's still yours - so you need to ask them if you want to put a new cable through your own duct)

Bottom line - talk to the provider, discuss options. All suppliers are "differently open" to this approach - but most of them will take the easiest/cheapest option.
 
Jelster said:
There is a basic technical aspect to 5G that many people overlook. Few people use 4G as their primary internet connection because it's too slow, and obviously, 5G solves this issue but then raises another as so many people will be using it. To make it work effectively, you need lower power transmitters, but more of them, allowing for a better network. This (sort of) happened when the cellular phone system went from analogue to digital. At that time I worked for a company that built the antennas for the cellular sites, and the designs changed to accomodate this.

4G had a few "picocells" (very small low power cells) but 5G will make more use of them, having antennas on street lights etc. At the end of the day, if you want reliable 5G communications, then you're going to have to put up with there being more hardware around built up areas.
Click to expand...
That's partly accurate, a big reason we need more 5g cells is because as wireless link technology utilises higher frequencies these are more and more effected by obstacles.
It's basically a sliding scale from low frequency with excellent range and penetration but low bandwidth to high frequency with poor range and poor penetration but high bandwidth.

Then like you say they have taken the approach to have many more cells rather than higher power cells.
5g also uses more frequency variation so it's a broader spectrum as well, plus it's a tenth of the latency as 4g.

5g will for sure allow many more people to use it as I very good alternative to a wired connection.
I think at the rate were going our mobile phones will basically become our routers at home and all devices will connect to them.
The killer of wireless systems is the high contention ratio compared to a physical connection.
 
robj20 said:
Then like you say they have taken the approach to have many more cells rather than higher power cells.
5g also uses more frequency variation so it's a broader spectrum as well, plus it's a tenth of the latency as 4g.
Click to expand...
Does this mean its more, or less, likely, to fry your brain? ( :D )

The one in contention closest to me, will be 25 yards from a Church and 100 yards from a middle school.
Plus it will be on a wide grass verge on an estate to main through road junction.

Parents picking their kids up from school claim that it will cut down their vision for turning out the junction.
But as already said, everyone "Needs" faster and better.
Generally, this and the other recently proposed one, I guess is a case of NIMBY.
 
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Cobra said:
Does this mean its more, or less, likely, to fry your brain? ( :D )

The one in contention closest to me, will be 25 yards from a Church and 100 yards from a middle school.
Plus it will be on a wide grass verge on an estate to main through road junction.

Parents picking their kids up from school claim that it will cut down their vision for turning out the junction.
But as already said, everyone "Needs" faster and better.
Generally, this and the other recently proposed one, I guess is a case of NIMBY.
Click to expand...
Makes me laugh when people go on about it being dangerous, well yes technically it can be at high enough powers.
But do you fear the sun? Well that's 50Phz (Ultraviolet), visible light is around 500Thz.
5g is I think around 3.5Ghz.
Your WiFi router is 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz do people not mind sitting next to one of those?

It's Ionising radiation that's the real danger, yes non-ionising can be dangerous in the wrong dose its not dangerous in low power long term doses. Where as ionising is.
Ionising at high power would be legal ie your microwave at I think 3Ghz-30Ghz.
Sorry im getting carried away but think of it like this your light bulb low powe you could look at it no problem, crank the power up high enough and you'd damage your eye.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Non-ionizing radiation - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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robj20 said:
That's partly accurate, a big reason we need more 5g cells is because as wireless link technology utilises higher frequencies these are more and more effected by obstacles.
It's basically a sliding scale from low frequency with excellent range and penetration but low bandwidth to high frequency with poor range and poor penetration but high bandwidth.

Then like you say they have taken the approach to have many more cells rather than higher power cells.
5g also uses more frequency variation so it's a broader spectrum as well, plus it's a tenth of the latency as 4g.

5g will for sure allow many more people to use it as I very good alternative to a wired connection.
I think at the rate were going our mobile phones will basically become our routers at home and all devices will connect to them.
The killer of wireless systems is the high contention ratio compared to a physical connection.
Click to expand...

Indeed Rob, being a licenced radio amateur of 40 years I sometimes forget that some things that I take for granted need to explained further to the "muggles" amongst us.... :D
 
Jelster said:
Indeed Rob, being a licenced radio amateur of 40 years I sometimes forget that some things that I take for granted need to explained further to the "muggles" amongst us.... :D
Click to expand...
I'm no expert with it all just the bits I know through my work with CCTV cameras and general electronics.
 
I'm sticking with the hybrid copper/fibre for as long as they'll support it. It's adequate for our needs and we keep our emergency telephone power supply courtesy of the ancient GPO line power generators.

I'm not convinced about putting all our communication eggs in a single basket, especially a basket labelled "5G".
 
I've recently had CityFibre installed giving a 500/500 connection through a cable they installed in the garden then put a box on the outside wall with the cable leading through to a small box on the inside (the ONT) which the router connects to. I'm glad to be onto a dedicated data connection as I'm fed up dealing with noise and speed issues on a shared line, my FTTC connection was an 80/20 that ran at 14/10 on a good day, trying to get BT to sort it was less productive than just slamming my head repeatedly on a table.

I decided to keep the landline number so ported it to Sipgate (£35, no line rental) and hooked up the phone through a Grandstream 801 adapter (around £45) which is a bit pricey but now the number will work on any internet connection and no longer tied to the landline.
 
For me just a few miles north of you, the fibre is run along the street using the BT ducting which ends up in a metal box which was built into the outside wall (I believe it was meant to be used for the coax TV system that is no longer used in MK) They joined a new length of fibre and ran it outside the house to near where I wanted the hub to be, They drilled through the wall to and connected it to the ONT box, which is small but requires a power socket nearby. The ONT connects to the router via an ethernet cable.
 
seaodyssey said:
For me just a few miles north of you, the fibre is run along the street using the BT ducting
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Interesting, the BT service runs along the grass verge here, City fiber dug up the tarmac pavement and laid their cables totally seperate there.

seaodyssey said:
which is small but requires a power socket nearby.
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That was something I did wonder about, and pretty much a deal breaker without a lot of rewiring,
there is no socket in the largish porch. Just a light switches.

Thanks for replying Pete :)
 
Cobra said:
Interesting, the BT service runs along the grass verge here, City fiber dug up the tarmac pavement and laid their cables totally seperate there.


That was something I did wonder about, and pretty much a deal breaker without a lot of rewiring,
there is no socket in the largish porch. Just a light switches.

Thanks for replying Pete :)
Click to expand...
You can have the ONT where ever you like, mines under the stairs at the back of the cupboard.
The fiber from it goes under the floor and through an air brick at the front of the house.

It's all going to go fiber eventually so best to prepare for it. At the minute it's just done when people order it.
You also don't have to have faster speeds you can have 36mb via fiber of that's all you want.
I had the 1Gb speeds but soon realised it was pointless so at the next contact I went down to 150mb which is great for us.
 
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robj20 said:
mines under the stairs at the back of the cupboard.
Click to expand...
There is no power there either. Anything other than my current lay-out requires a new socket or draping power cables around the house.
It comes in at the porch, and the cable runs up the wall, through the ceiling to the back of the hub, upstairs in my "man cave. The router sits on top of the PC and is plugged in there, along with the PC, printer etc...
What I'm saying is, I need the router in the same place, the wire is all there, so part of my initial question was will they use the same cable that is in place, to connect to the router/ hub what ever its call.
Going on responses here and "locally" it seems not.
 
Cobra said:
There is no power there either. Anything other than my current lay-out requires a new socket or draping power cables around the house.
It comes in at the porch, and the cable runs up the wall, through the ceiling to the back of the hub, upstairs in my "man cave. The router sits on top of the PC and is plugged in there, along with the PC, printer etc...
What I'm saying is, I need the router in the same place, the wire is all there, so part of my initial question was will they use the same cable that is in place, to connect to the router/ hub what ever its call.
Going on responses here and "locally" it seems not.
Click to expand...
No. All new cable, in your situation why not have the ONT behind your computer right next to the router?
 
robj20 said:
You can have the ONT where ever you like, mines under the stairs at the back of the cupboard.
The fiber from it goes under the floor and through an air brick at the front of the house.

It's all going to go fiber eventually so best to prepare for it. At the minute it's just done when people order it.
You also don't have to have faster speeds you can have 36mb via fiber of that's all you want.
I had the 1Gb speeds but soon realised it was pointless so at the next contact I went down to 150mb which is great for us.
Click to expand...
Agreed, the previous landline came in under the stairs into a cloak room which was a pain so I chose to have the ONT fitted in a convenient spot in the lounge instead.

It's also a good point that people are going to be changed over in time and already a friend's parent is being changed from FTTC to FTTP at the request of the ISP which I was surprised was happening already.
 
robj20 said:
No. All new cable, in your situation why not have the ONT behind your computer right next to the router?
Click to expand...
That would work, assuming they would be prepared to pull the wiring through the same route as it is now.
 
Cobra said:
That would work, assuming they would be prepared to pull the wiring through the same route as it is now.
Click to expand...
The joys of pulling cable through ducts with several sharp turns in them! :mad:
 
I have 2 connections
Virgin M50 I think it is downgraded it last year to save money was M200 which was excelent
Talk Talk future Fiber or FTTP (fiber to the premises) 500mb up and 500mb down I am currently one of the testers was initially for 6 months and it was extended for another 6 months.
City Fibre put cables under ground to the BT telegraph poles the fibre comes from the pole to the house and through the wall round the door to a small box at the back of my desk. I then have a cat5/6 patch cable to a router.

Decent speeds is awesome but a fault a few months ago resulted in an outage for 8 or 9 days fortunately I had the virgin connection to fall back on. Unfortunately Virgin were also having issues and I had a few periods where that was down too. so I decamped to my mums and used their ADSL which was painfully slow.
 
JohnMcL7 said:
Agreed, the previous landline came in under the stairs into a cloak room which was a pain so I chose to have the ONT fitted in a convenient spot in the lounge instead.

It's also a good point that people are going to be changed over in time and already a friend's parent is being changed from FTTC to FTTP at the request of the ISP which I was surprised was happening already.
Click to expand...

2025 is the cut-off date, the termination of copper services (inc. FTTC) is progressing quite rapidly down here.
 
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