and the site receives a small commission
Fuji have announced a new Acros 100 for release this autumn
- Thread starter FishyFish
- Start date
- Messages
- 2,146
- Name
- Des
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Same here, I found one of 35mm and two of 120. Maybe I can retire early?I've just come across a roll of across 35mm film in the fridge .....anyone wanna sell me a kidney for it! ?
- Messages
- 6,320
- Name
- Steven
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Don't get cocky gents, apparently across II has even better reciprocity. Be interesting to see how it looks.
Asha
Blithering Idiot
- Messages
- 11,274
- Name
- Asha
- Edit My Images
- Yes
- Messages
- 6,320
- Name
- Steven
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Perhaps BUT it'll NEVER beat Fomapan!
Haha, yeah if you want to spend the entire night taking a photo nothing beats foma!
- Messages
- 2,146
- Name
- Des
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I'll give you a tenner!
Asha
Blithering Idiot
- Messages
- 11,274
- Name
- Asha
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Hmmm OK well I'll push in and offer you a quid ( posted)!
Well why would I wanna spend more on film that I haven't got kit for
, except to boast that I have original across stocks
- Messages
- 7,701
- Edit My Images
- No
Looks like it's confirmed:
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/comments/dzym3t/fuji_acros_ii_confirmed_to_be_made_in_uk_original/
Ilford are pointedly denying repackaging 'our ILFORD films' for anyone else:
View: https://BANNED/ILFORDPhoto/status/1197821483634089984
But I assume that just means the official Ilford-branded range, not other emulsions they may be making under contract for Fuji etc. In other words, Acros II isn't Delta.
- Messages
- 6,320
- Name
- Steven
- Edit My Images
- Yes
That's good, as good a film as. delta is, it isn't acros.
Its not unprecedented though, I'm pretty sure the rollie rpx line is coated by Ilford but it's not an Ilford film.
Peter B
Double Numpty
- Messages
- 5,967
- Name
- Peter
- Edit My Images
- Yes
This sounds like good news all round, since there shouldn't be daft import costs and the contract will help the Ilford bottom line. The price difference will probably ensure that there isn't an overlap between Acros and Delta, so we should be very happy. Now then, will they be coating sheets as well, possibly alongside the annual Ilford special sizes promo?
Asha
Blithering Idiot
- Messages
- 11,274
- Name
- Asha
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I'm not fooled easily Peter.
All companies find "excuses " to keep the price tag at the higher end …...In this case, low pound value/ Brexit amongst others that I'm sure they will find.
Fair enough when products are produced overseas there are import duties to take into account but don't forget the company has, generally already benefited substantialy by using Asian or other cheap labour to manufacture the goods in the first place.
It's all a game to believe that we, the consumers are getting a "deal" when in reality we're being stuffed witha capital S !!
In principle, there's a limit to how much can be charged for film, given that there will be a fixed cost to make a batch and that it has a shelf life. In other words, there's a practical minimum number of rolls/sheets that can be made in a batch, and it has to be sold within some sensible time limit. If the price is too high and people don't buy enough of it, the maker would end up sitting on old stock (or paying additional ongoing storage costs to keep master rolls in deep freeze). There's no point in growing 100 apples and pricing them such that the market will only buy 50 before they go off.
There always seems to be somebody speculating that some new film or other is repackaged Ilford stuff, and Ilford consistently state that they never do this. I suspect that some films are made with Harman as the contractor, and it's likely that the actual manufacture is being done by the operation called Ilford (unless Harman have other operations that have film manufacturing facilities). From the blurb on Silverprint's page for Kentmere 100...
The Kentmere range is owned and manufactured by Harman technology and follows the same high quality processes that are used to make all ILFORD PHOTO films and papers
It seems to me that any film being made in the UK that isn't branded Ilford is either some Harman product, or a customer-specific recipe made under contract by Ilford, via Harman. If that's what's happening with Acros II, then it's interesting to note that Fuji appear to have decided that manufacturing it themselves is no longer economically viable. With only one normal B&W film left in the range, it's cheaper for them to get an active coating line elsewhere to do the manufacture than to run a full B&W line themselves.
The key thing in my mind is that, perhaps with a few exceptions, the film makers have scaled back in terms of how many coating lines are running, and what films they make on each line. It's entirely possible that the global market has shrunk to the extent that a single line constantly manufacturing one film would lead to oversupply on the one hand, and a resulting increased cost of manufacture for the amount that's actually sold. It looks like the way forward now is to set up a line to make enough film of a given type to cover a certain shelf life, then reconfigure the line to make another film type, and so on. Less lines overall, but those that exist spend more time making stuff that actually sells, which means the cost to make a given batch is less than running, say, an Acros line for one month a year and keeping it functional but idle for the rest of the year. What it also means is that the cost to manufacture increases due to reconfiguration every time you change recipe - chemicals and ingredients need to change, the process needs to settle, and tests need to be done to ensure that the current film being manufactured meets the specification. Then you manufacture in bulk to cover a given sales period/shelf life before stopping and repeating the reconfiguration process for another film.
What this all means is that the cost to make a given film still goes up a bit because of the additional time taken to reconfigure the line, but whether the cost of Acros II will be sky high remains to be seen. On the one hand, Ilford may have a vested interest in protecting Delta, but it could be argued that the two can coexist, depending on what photographers want. It's a subtle balance between how many former Acros buyers would switch to Delta, how much Delta Ilford reckon they can sell if they didn't make Acros II, and whether their manufacturing would have slack time as a result (thus increasing the cost of Delta). It looks like they reckon it's viable for them to make both. It has to be remembered that Ilford/Harman are a manufacturer and wholesaler - it doesn't really matter to them what specific recipes they use, or what's printed on the packaging. Their interest is in selling large batches of film to retailers and distributors while keeping the lines busy.
Given busy manufacturing lines, two things could help to keep the retail cost within sensible limits. Ultimately, there is only so much film that is going to be purchased globally. The pricing has to strike the balance between maximising revenue while not pricing yourself out of the market and sitting on aging stock. The other is that there is still competition outwith Harman/Ilford. It's tempting to think that a cartel could form, where the pricing of Acros II and Delta shoot up, but they (Ilford/Harman, and Fuji) still have to compete globally with other makers. And, the retail prices of all films still have to be such that film photographers will buy what is manufactured - they can't just charge what they like because film itself is in competition with digital.
There always seems to be somebody speculating that some new film or other is repackaged Ilford stuff, and Ilford consistently state that they never do this. I suspect that some films are made with Harman as the contractor, and it's likely that the actual manufacture is being done by the operation called Ilford (unless Harman have other operations that have film manufacturing facilities). From the blurb on Silverprint's page for Kentmere 100...
The Kentmere range is owned and manufactured by Harman technology and follows the same high quality processes that are used to make all ILFORD PHOTO films and papers
It seems to me that any film being made in the UK that isn't branded Ilford is either some Harman product, or a customer-specific recipe made under contract by Ilford, via Harman. If that's what's happening with Acros II, then it's interesting to note that Fuji appear to have decided that manufacturing it themselves is no longer economically viable. With only one normal B&W film left in the range, it's cheaper for them to get an active coating line elsewhere to do the manufacture than to run a full B&W line themselves.
The key thing in my mind is that, perhaps with a few exceptions, the film makers have scaled back in terms of how many coating lines are running, and what films they make on each line. It's entirely possible that the global market has shrunk to the extent that a single line constantly manufacturing one film would lead to oversupply on the one hand, and a resulting increased cost of manufacture for the amount that's actually sold. It looks like the way forward now is to set up a line to make enough film of a given type to cover a certain shelf life, then reconfigure the line to make another film type, and so on. Less lines overall, but those that exist spend more time making stuff that actually sells, which means the cost to make a given batch is less than running, say, an Acros line for one month a year and keeping it functional but idle for the rest of the year. What it also means is that the cost to manufacture increases due to reconfiguration every time you change recipe - chemicals and ingredients need to change, the process needs to settle, and tests need to be done to ensure that the current film being manufactured meets the specification. Then you manufacture in bulk to cover a given sales period/shelf life before stopping and repeating the reconfiguration process for another film.
What this all means is that the cost to make a given film still goes up a bit because of the additional time taken to reconfigure the line, but whether the cost of Acros II will be sky high remains to be seen. On the one hand, Ilford may have a vested interest in protecting Delta, but it could be argued that the two can coexist, depending on what photographers want. It's a subtle balance between how many former Acros buyers would switch to Delta, how much Delta Ilford reckon they can sell if they didn't make Acros II, and whether their manufacturing would have slack time as a result (thus increasing the cost of Delta). It looks like they reckon it's viable for them to make both. It has to be remembered that Ilford/Harman are a manufacturer and wholesaler - it doesn't really matter to them what specific recipes they use, or what's printed on the packaging. Their interest is in selling large batches of film to retailers and distributors while keeping the lines busy.
Given busy manufacturing lines, two things could help to keep the retail cost within sensible limits. Ultimately, there is only so much film that is going to be purchased globally. The pricing has to strike the balance between maximising revenue while not pricing yourself out of the market and sitting on aging stock. The other is that there is still competition outwith Harman/Ilford. It's tempting to think that a cartel could form, where the pricing of Acros II and Delta shoot up, but they (Ilford/Harman, and Fuji) still have to compete globally with other makers. And, the retail prices of all films still have to be such that film photographers will buy what is manufactured - they can't just charge what they like because film itself is in competition with digital.
To all intents and purposes Fuji Neopan 400CN was repackaged XP2.
For those interested, Acros II vs Delta 100 pricing in Japan can be found here
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2925658&postcount=91
Normally that gap would be bigger over here (Fuji more expensive, Ilford cheaper). Will be interesting to see if the 'Made in the UK' has any effect on UK pricing
Peter B
Double Numpty
- Messages
- 5,967
- Name
- Peter
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Ilford Delta 100 currently listed on the Ilford website at £7.34 for a 120, compared to £5.76 for Delta 400 and £4.89 for FP4+.
Last edited:
Peter B
Double Numpty
- Messages
- 5,967
- Name
- Peter
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Anybody's guess Nige, although it seems suspiciously close to the price of the new Ektachrome and maybe the market can stand that?
- Messages
- 2,146
- Name
- Des
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Ouch! That's a kick in the sporran!Just had an email from Analogue Wonderland confirming stock of both 35mm and 120 at £14 a pop.
- Messages
- 8,301
- Name
- Ian
- Edit My Images
- No
Pretty much sums up my view. My competing black & white films are PanF and Delta 100 which are significantly cheaper for [arguably] not much difference.
Asha
Blithering Idiot
- Messages
- 11,274
- Name
- Asha
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Just had an email from Analogue Wonderland confirming stock of both 35mm and 120 at £14 a pop.
No surprise whatsoever!
Asha
Blithering Idiot
- Messages
- 11,274
- Name
- Asha
- Edit My Images
- Yes
For us mere mortals yes, but the rich elite like yourself Andy
…...We'll await your generosity when you share your first box 
- Messages
- 16,290
- Name
- Andy Grant
- Edit My Images
- Yes
For us mere mortals yes, but the rich eejit like yourself Andy
Corrected for you mate....
Peter B
Double Numpty
- Messages
- 5,967
- Name
- Peter
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Just checked the Ag Photographic website for a price and they still have the old film listed, but out of stock. For the record, it was £6.55 for 35mm and £28.95 for a 5 pack of 120.
Mr Badger
Didymus
- Messages
- 7,457
- Edit My Images
- No
At £14 a roll for 120 6x9, that works out at £1.75 a shot plus postage and developing costs... for black and white print film?! I really do hope that's just a 'novelty factor premium' price and it's going to be significantly cheaper than that once it's fully on the market. If not, I think this, and Kodak's price increase, could well adversely impact the current growth in the popularity of film photography.Just checked the Ag Photographic website for a price and they still have the old film listed, but out of stock. For the record, it was £6.55 for 35mm and £28.95 for a 5 pack of 120.
OP
- Messages
- 7,507
- Name
- Nige
- Edit My Images
- No
Or boost the market share of the likes of Ilford / Foma / Adox etc.
There was an article on Kosmo Foto yesterday about the Kodak price increases which said that, in some cases, the increases are not as severe as might have been expected as some retailers are able to absorb some of the rise. It also depends on territory, with some locations getting much higher rises.
I expect that the manufacturers know what they are doing, have calculated what the market will accept, and are not trying to deliberately sabotage the sales of their products. It still stings somewhat though and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Ilford doesn't follow suit!
I shot 94 rolls of film last year, which (as I also pay for processing) averaged out at about £95 a month(!), so I don't really want any big price increases across the board.
Asha
Blithering Idiot
- Messages
- 11,274
- Name
- Asha
- Edit My Images
- Yes
That monthly outlay would give me eight frames of 4x5 and one frame of 10x8 every week on decent film ( Delta/ FP4) including home development. ( 36 LF exposures a month is a lot of LF !)
Fair enough with 35mm that relates to six or 7 times as many exposures but for me the format wouldn't give me the same eenjoyment.
Mr Badger
Didymus
- Messages
- 7,457
- Edit My Images
- No
Doesn't it take you lot about a week to set each LF shot up though?
So look on the bright side, even if you were a lottery jackpot winner, it probably still wouldn't cost you much more a year in film! Mind you, I imagine the equipment and location travel costs might be a bit more.
OP
- Messages
- 7,507
- Name
- Nige
- Edit My Images
- No
It's a mix of 135 and 120 for me. I am tempted by the idea of large format because the image quality, plus the technical aspects of the cameras are largely unmatched by anything you can do with smaller formats, but it's not practical for me at the moment (expense of acquiring the gear included). The smaller form factor of 135 and 120 cameras also tends to suit my "always on the move" style of image making too.
Peter B
Double Numpty
- Messages
- 5,967
- Name
- Peter
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Bearing in mind that there will be taxes and suchlike, this post on Photrio has Fuji pricing sent from Japan, including Acros 11. A 120 roll at 1,080 Yen is £7.55.
Last edited:
I’d imagine so. It’s Analogue Wonderland trying to milk it with Japanese imports. Factoring in P&P it’s actually cheaper to import from eBay sellers
Wait for the official release and the likes of AG to start stocking it
Asha
Blithering Idiot
- Messages
- 11,274
- Name
- Asha
- Edit My Images
- Yes
at £20 a roll pmsl
ChrisR
I'm a well known grump...
- Messages
- 11,025
- Name
- Chris
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I’d imagine so. It’s Analogue Wonderland trying to milk it with Japanese imports. Factoring in P&P it’s actually cheaper to import from eBay sellers
Don't forget PP, then import duty on the film, then VAT, plus ParcelFarce's £12 customs clearance charge plus a ransom charge of £5.50 if they have it for more than 10 days... However, there are important clarifications, see posts 75 and 76 below!
Last edited:
Most definitely don’t buy in bulk. Items under £15 are VAT and customs free (iirc)
ChrisR
I'm a well known grump...
- Messages
- 11,025
- Name
- Chris
- Edit My Images
- Yes
When I first read this I thought it had been abolished; I was thinking of the imports from the Channel Islands that used this ploy for many years until it was banned. However, you are right; this page: https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty says
"You pay VAT on goods sent from non-European Union (EU) countries and EUspecial territories (eg the Canary Islands) if they’re:
- gifts worth more than £39
- other goods worth more than £15
- alcohol, tobacco products and fragrances (eg perfume, eau de toilette and cologne) of any value
... VAT is charged on the total value, including:
- the price paid for the goods
- postage, packaging and insurance
- any duty you owe"
"Anything under £135 No charge"
I got a LF lens from Japan under this rule, but again I thought it had been abolished (maybe that comes in April?).