Full Frame Queries regarding 3rd party lenses.

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GIZTO29

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Philip
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My friend is upgrading from a Sony Alpha to Canon and was originally going for the 7D but has now decided to go for the 5D. I mentioned to him that he would have to be careful as the 5D was Full Frame and although i was unsure in detail as to what this meant i knew that it was important for him to research first with regards to lens choice etc. From what ive read you can use EF lenses on on the 7D but you cant use EF-S lenses on the 5D. Now all would be well if he was just buying Canon but what if he wants for example the Tamron 17-50 f2.8 or the Sigma 17-70 f2.8 macro? I mention the Sigma as he had used it recently on his friends 550D and was impressed.
On Clifton Cameras at the bottom it states this....

Vignetting will occur if the lens is used with digital cameras with image sensors larger than APS-C size or 35mm SLR cameras

Does this mean that all 3rd party lenses are out or do they make one for each?

Taken from Wiki

First introduced in 1987, the EF lens mount is the standard lens mount on the Canon EOS family of SLR film and digital cameras. EF stands for "Electro-Focus": automatic focusing on EF lenses is handled by a dedicated electric motor built into the lens. Mechanically, it is a bayonet-style mount, and all communication between camera and lens takes place through electrical contacts; there are no mechanical levers or plungers.
In 2003, Canon introduced the EF-S lens mount, a derivative of the EF mount that is strictly for digital EOS cameras with a 1.6x crop released after 2003. EF lenses can be mounted on EF-S bodies, albeit with cropped image, while EF-S lenses cannot be mounted on EF bodies.

My friend is French and has limited English so thats why im trying to help him. Google translate is pretty rubbish at translating stuff like the Wiki quote!

Thanks in advance, Phil
 
Sigma's equivalent to EF-S is DC, which will only fit 1.6x crop Canons. Their DG lenses will work with crop and full frame.

I'm not too sure about Tamron's naming, but the 17-50mm is only for 1.6x crop Canons.

If you're looking for a lens which gives a similar view to the 17-50mm range on a crop sensor (27-80mm equivalent) you want to look at something in the range of 24-70mm/28-75mm/24-105mm.
 
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So are there more lenses available to him if he goes Full Frame as i imagine the old Canon ones will work fine? I had a similar issue when i bought my D5000 with no AF inbody.
Phil
 
basically, there are fewer lenses available if you go full frame as only Canon EF or Sigma DG lenses will work on a full frame camera (not sure about other 3rd party manufacturers)

It's technically possible to shove an EF-S lens on a full frame body (the hole is the same size) but you'll either get an image which doesn't fill the sensor (heavy vignetting) or you'll have a calamity where the mirror will hit the rear of the lens because it's closer to the sensor as it only needs to project a smaller image circle on the sensor.

there are older FD mount lenses which will fit with an adapter, but these are manual focus only and have their own problems.

But, many EF-S lenses exist to cover the same effective field of view as you'd get with a similarly ranged EF lens on a fullframe body.

easy example:

EF-S 17-55 is about the same as the EF 24-70 on a fullframe body (because of the 1.6 crop factor) so although there is superficially less choice, you'll find there isn't really and that all the popular focal lengths are covered on both crop factors by some great lenses.
 
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cuthbert said:
basically, there are fewer lenses available if you go full frame as only Canon EF or Sigma DG lenses will work on a full frame camera (not sure about other 3rd party manufacturers)

It's technically possible to shove an EF-S lens on a full frame body (the hole is the same size) but you'll either get an image which doesn't fill the sensor (heavy vignetting) or you'll have a calamity where the mirror will hit the rear of the lens because it's closer to the sensor as it only needs to project a smaller image circle on the sensor.

there are older FD mount lenses which will fit with an adapter, but these are manual focus only and have their own problems.

But, many EF-S lenses exist to cover the same effective field of view as you'd get with a similarly ranged EF lens on a fullframe body.

easy example:

EF-S 17-55 is about the same as the EF 24-70 on a fullframe body (because of the 1.6 crop factor) so although there is superficially less choice, you'll find there isn't really and that all the popular focal lengths are covered on both crop factors by some great lenses.
Click to expand...

Im pretty sure from reading Tamron Full Frame lenses are Di.....
http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/prod250.html
 
As above. There aren't any focal lengths that aren't attainable by choosing either crop or full-frame, the lens choice is just different. For example on crop my set up was:

11-18mm (ultra-wide)
17-50 ('normal' walkabout)
70-200 (telephoto)
85mm prime (for portraits and low light stuff)

Now on full frame, the line up is:

17-35 (ultra-wide)
24-70 (normal walkabout)
120-300 (telephoto)
135mm (for portraits and low light stuff)

Both line-ups give pretty much the same field of view, just different lenses due to the different sensor sizes.

One thing to look out for is all the different acroynms. With Canon it's fairly easy, there's EF (which will work on crop of FF), and EF-S which will ONLY work on crop. However, all third party manufacturers use the EF mount (so there won't be any mirror hitting incidents), but some lenses will only create an image circle big enough for the smaller cropped sensor. For the 3rd party ones the ones that you need to watch out for are:

Sigma - DC (not to be confused with DG, which means it has a digitally optimised coating)

Tamron - Di II (not to be confused with just Di, which means 'digitally integrated' I think, the 'II' means for cropped sensor cameras, just 'Di' means FF compatible).

So all 3rd party lenses will fit, but be careful selecting ones as they may not work as intended (you'll get a big black box, with a small circular image in the middle)

Confused yet? :D

Chris
 
chris321 said:
As above. There aren't any focal lengths that aren't attainable by choosing either crop or full-frame, the lens choice is just different. For example on crop my set up was:

11-18mm (ultra-wide)
17-50 ('normal' walkabout)
70-200 (telephoto)
85mm prime (for portraits and low light stuff)

Now on full frame, the line up is:

17-35 (ultra-wide)
24-70 (normal walkabout)
120-300 (telephoto)
135mm (for portraits and low light stuff)

Both line-ups give pretty much the same field of view, just different lenses due to the different sensor sizes.

One thing to look out for is all the different acroynms. With Canon it's fairly easy, there's EF (which will work on crop of FF), and EF-S which will ONLY work on crop. However, all third party manufacturers use the EF mount (so there won't be any mirror hitting incidents), but some lenses will only create an image circle big enough for the smaller cropped sensor. For the 3rd party ones the ones that you need to watch out for are:

Sigma - DC (not to be confused with DG, which means it has a digitally optimised coating)

Tamron - Di II (not to be confused with just Di, which means 'digitally integrated' I think, the 'II' means for cropped sensor cameras, just 'Di' means FF compatible).

So all 3rd party lenses will fit, but be careful selecting ones as they may not work as intended (you'll get a big black box, with a small circular image in the middle)

Confused yet? :D

Chris
Click to expand...

Er, yes! I thought DG was for full frame?? His main shooting is done in nigfhtclubs so he needs a fast lens with around 18-55 (in crop terms).:)
Thanks, Phil
 
cuthbert said:
It's technically possible to shove an EF-S lens on a full frame body (the hole is the same size) .
Click to expand...

Rofl.

When it comes to midrange zooms, particularly for Canon you are really spoilt for choice on crop compared to FF.

Tamron 17-50
Sigma 17-50
Canon 18-55 IS
Canon 17-55 IS
Sigma 17-70
Canon 17-85 IS
Canon 15-85 IS

Those are just off the top of my head lenses for Canon APS-C.

For full frame...

Canon 24-70
Sigma 24-70
Tamron 28-75

Without thinking really hard, I couldn't list any more - and none of them have IS either.

It's not even as if full frame is majorly advantageous when it comes to ultrawides, as the Sigma 12-24 is now practically equalled by the 8-16, it's APS-C equivalent. Couple that with the fact that APS-C lenses tend to be cheaper, and that the crop factor makes telephoto length easier to achieve, it's easy to see why it's more popular than full frame.
 
There is some rubbish posted on this thread.

Firstly, EF-s lenses will NOT fit on a full frame camera without modification, if you do modify them then you will probably end up damaging the mirror assembly. Some of the other manufaturers lenses will fit, but again could end up damaging the camera and even if not qill have severe vignetting.

Secondly there are a myriad of mid range zooms to fit Full Frame, any Canon EOS lens from film days will fit and work with FF, there is also the 24-105L with IS, a plethora of 28-105/135 versions including one with IS and there are also a number of older lenses 28-70L, then there are the super zooms 35-350L, 28-200 and 28-300L with IS.

Oh, and the widest zoom lens is the 8-15mm EF lens which also fits Full Frame.

And that is just the Canon ones.
 
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GIZTO29 said:
Er, yes! I thought DG was for full frame?? His main shooting is done in nigfhtclubs so he needs a fast lens with around 18-55 (in crop terms).:)
Thanks, Phil
Click to expand...

Well, the DG itself is nothing to do with full frame/crop compatibility, but DG lenses often are full-frame compatible. However, just because there's no 'dg', doesn't mean it ISN'T FF compatible.

I have an older Sigma 24-70. It's full designation is "Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX". This was then replaced by a newer version which was the "Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX DG", which had differently detailed zoom and focus rings, and new coatings on an element or 2. So if you don't see a DG, it doesn't mean it won't work.

FF and crop are different tools for different jobs, but both with be fine in a nightclub. For sheer image quality alone, full-frame is very nice, but if he decides that sports or wildlife are also going to feature heavily, then a crop camera does have a lot going for it too.

If Full-frame, there are plenty of lenses to chose from (canon 24-70, sigma 24-70, Tamron 28-70, tokina 28-80 etc), and the same for crop (canon 17-55, Tamron 17-50, Sigma 18-50 etc etc). All f/2.8 throughout the range, and all will do the job! :)
 
Digifrog said:
Zeiss primes :thumbs:
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except they are manual focus and the only ones who using at the ultra wide ones and even then the mannin the street ain't goin to see a difference.



I use the sigma 24-70 f2.8 HSM with my 5D2. All EF lenses fit and all sigma except for DC lenses and all tamron except Di2 lenses. tokina don't make many full frame that are worth having.
 
POAH said:
except they are manual focus and the only ones who using at the ultra wide ones and even then the mannin the street ain't goin to see a difference.



I use the sigma 24-70 f2.8 HSM with my 5D2. All EF lenses fit and all sigma except for DC lenses and all tamron except Di2 lenses. tokina don't make many full frame that are worth having.
Click to expand...
Thats the main lens hes been looking at:)
 
EdBray said:
There is some rubbish posted on this thread.

Oh, and the widest zoom lens is the 8-15mm EF lens which also fits Full Frame.

And that is just the Canon ones.
Click to expand...

The Canon 8-15mm is, I believe a fisheye.

If you are talking corrected lenses as far as I know the widest option now is APS-C but only by 1mm.

I've never heard of a Siggy or other APS-C lens damaging a full frame camera mirror. As far as I know that's only a possibility with EF-S but not if you saw the end bit of plastic off. There are descriptions of how to do this if anyone wants to Google their way to them, but I don't remember ever reading of any instances of mirrors hitting 3rd party or modified EF-S lenses.
 
woof woof said:
The Canon 8-15mm is, I believe a fisheye.

Correct

If you are talking corrected lenses as far as I know the widest option now is APS-C but only by 1mm.

No, I was talking about the widest zoom lens available, which is what was written.

I've never heard of a Siggy or other APS-C lens damaging a full frame camera mirror. As far as I know that's only a possibility with EF-S but not if you saw the end bit of plastic off. There are descriptions of how to do this if anyone wants to Google their way to them, but I don't remember ever reading of any instances of mirrors hitting 3rd party or modified EF-S lenses.
Click to expand...


I have done the conversion on a 10-22 EFs lens by removing the rear baffle and replacing it with one from a damaged EF 70-300. This was to allow its use on a 1DMk3 on which it would work from 12mm. It would not work at all on a FF camera as whilst the baffle does not hit the mirror, The rear of the lens does!

As for 3rd party lenses I haven't had any to try (nor would want to take the risk with my £5k camera), I know that a number will fit, but again due to the very short back focus the lens itself will often hit the mirror when adjusted, not the mount.
 
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