Funeral Cortege

[tiler65]

Today's moral dilemma

Whilst travelling to a job yesterday I encountered a funeral cortege. Nothing unusual apart from the fact that the tailbacks were probably something like 60 to 70 vehicles long. The hearse was driving on a normal two way road but driving at less that 10 miles an hour. (I can't give an exact speed as my speedo only starts at 10 and it wasn't moving)

Many drivers were becoming increasingly frustrated, pedestrians were walking as quick as the cortege. To make matters worse, the cortege came to a busy junction with a motorway slip road intersection which has probably 3 sets of lights in the space of 300yds. When crossing the junction the lights changed and some of the funeral party followed the hearse across but after the red light. This caused chaos among the cars wanting to cross the other way. By now the it was nearly gridlock because the hearse was travelling so slowly. Cars started to try and overtake but others stayed back and continued to crawl behind.

It must have taken 40 mins or so for the funeral cortege to leave the main road and this was only for around a couple of miles.

Having looked at the Highway Code there is no mention of a funeral cortege or what you should do if you encounter one whilst out driving. There appears to be an unwritten 'law' which generally relates to respect and not get your vehicle in between the hearse and the limousines and no overtaking.

Surely the hearse drivers must also be aware of other road users especially when approaching busy junctions. Is there a recommended speed at which they travel when laden? Would any of you overtake a cortege if it was causing major disruption? For those who have travelled in a cortege (I can't remember doing so) is it important to travel slowly? (I mean at 10mph or lower)

 

[MatBin]

I would never ever (see below) overtake a cortege, totally dis-respectful. Its some poor soul's last journey and unless you need to overtake as you have some life threatening problem could you justify overtaking regardless of what delay it caused.
As for why they travel so slow, I guess again its a mark of respect rather than necessity.
I've been in 3 recently and I would be horrified to think someone could not wait just a few moments, 40 minutes etc, in a lifetime, is that so long?

Matt

 

[Ploddles]

The hearse etc should only drive at walking pace to the first junction or about 50 yards, whichever is shortest. Absolutely no reason they should have been doing that in your case.

I would have no trouble overtaking if they don't adhere to that, especially the following cars.

As it happens, it was my wife's funeral last Friday, and the hearse only went at walking speed for about the first 50 yards, just as they should.

 

[Ricardodaforce]

I would never ever (see below) overtake a cortege, totally dis-respectful. Its some poor soul's last journey and unless you need to overtake as you have some life threatening problem could you justify overtaking regardless of what delay it caused.
As for why they travel so slow, I guess again its a mark of respect rather than necessity.
I've been in 3 recently and I would be horrified to think someone could not wait just a few moments, 40 minutes etc, in a lifetime, is that so long?

Matt

That is my view too.

 

[u8myufo]

Well Tom despite what some might think of me , no I would not attempt it just out of respect alone. I cannot think of anything important enough that I would care about being 40min late for. Perhaps having so many vehicles and no doubt the funeral directors knew the score they may have been sensible to inform the Police :shrug:

 

[neil_g]

isnt it illegal (or at least against the highway code) to drive too slow?

 

[tiler65]

Well Tom despite what some might think of me , no I would not attempt it just out of respect alone. I cannot think of anything important enough that I would care about being 40min late for. Perhaps having so many vehicles and no doubt the funeral directors knew the score they may have been sensible to inform the Police :shrug:

I think you maybe have misunderstood....the funeral cortege had a hearse and a limousine (maybe a few other followers) but the rest of the 'snake' was from other motorists, buses, lorries etc.

Minimum speed limits must be displayed by a white number on a blue round background I think.

 

[neil_g]

cant find any legal info on slow driving, but there are a few articles where people have been fined/taken to court for driving too slowly. i think it may be covered under driving without due care or similar.

but how many police officers would give a funeral cortege a ticket..

 

[Mikesphotaes]

It is usually walking pace for around 50 yds or so, then normal driving.

My mother would still be heading for her final resting place if they drove at the OP pace!

 

[DemiLion]

The hearse etc should only drive at walking pace to the first junction or about 50 yards, whichever is shortest. Absolutely no reason they should have been doing that in your case.

I would have no trouble overtaking if they don't adhere to that, especially the following cars.

As it happens, it was my wife's funeral last Friday, and the hearse only went at walking speed for about the first 50 yards, just as they should.

100% spot on and also the procedure that's adopted for all Repat ceremonies out of Brize.

By over stretching their bounds the hearse is effectively making itself moving hazard on the road and therefore causing a danger to traffic.

If it's travelling at less than 10mph, I'd have no problems overtaking it what-so-ever. It's not about respect, it's about road safety.

 

[PsiFox]

Nor should the cortège go through red lights to keep up.

Was it a funeral for a cyclist?

 

[Gazamonk]

The fact they were driving so slowly on an obviously busy and potentially dangerous intersection and encouraging crossing on red lights as a result negates in my view any requirement to sit behind an obviously dangerous convoy. All they were doing was creating a possibility for more business. Stupid and disrespectful to other road users. Before anyone jumps in, I am in no way being disparaging to the situation, the bereaved or the family but to the undertaker/driver of the hearse.

 

[unclened]

Without meaning to cause offence to anyone, I don't particularly understand why it is rude or disrespectful to overtake. Life and death happens all around us, every single moment of the day. What is different about a funeral procession? Ofcourse I wouldn't want to cause the family any distress through my actions and would have the upmost consideration and patience I could possibly muster, but life simply goes on.

 

[Tigger.ufo]

I would never ever (see below) overtake a cortege, totally dis-respectful. Its some poor soul's last journey and unless you need to overtake as you have some life threatening problem could you justify overtaking regardless of what delay it caused.
As for why they travel so slow, I guess again its a mark of respect rather than necessity.
I've been in 3 recently and I would be horrified to think someone could not wait just a few moments, 40 minutes etc, in a lifetime, is that so long?

Matt

Heather

 

[Natty94]

I wouldn't as I think its highly disrespectful to the person and their family

isnt it illegal (or at least against the highway code) to drive too slow?

Only on Motorways

 

[gramps]

I would never ever (see below) overtake a cortege, totally dis-respectful. Its some poor soul's last journey and unless you need to overtake as you have some life threatening problem could you justify overtaking regardless of what delay it caused.
As for why they travel so slow, I guess again its a mark of respect rather than necessity.
I've been in 3 recently and I would be horrified to think someone could not wait just a few moments, 40 minutes etc, in a lifetime, is that so long?

Matt

Entirely agree, a minimal mark of respect IMO - I wonder if the response would be different if it was a serviceman from Afghanistan rather than Joe/Jane public?

 

[DemiLion]

I wonder if the response would be different if it was a serviceman from Afghanistan rather than Joe/Jane public?

It wouldn't happen. As outlined about, the Repat cortèges know how to drive properly.

 

[neil_g]

Only on Motorways

sure? i mean whats the difference between a motorway and a national limit road in the grand scheme of things?

 

[Russ77]

Without wanting to offend anyone here, I have no religious beliefs and if I was put out with the rubbish bags on a Friday morning when I "expire" it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

I'm not saying for one moment that I would go screaming round a funeral cortege with my music blaring but I would be patient until there was safe place to pass but as others have said, life and death goes on.

Let's say someone in that queue was on their way to a job interview but missed it because they were held up for 40 mins?

This is obviously going to be an emotive subject but I think there's too much of a taboo around death and think maybe it's time to take a leaf out of other culture's books and celebrate someone's life rather than mourn their passing?

That's certainly what I want to happen when my time's up!

 

[Russ77]

sure? i mean whats the difference between a motorway and a national limit road in the grand scheme of things?

Motorways have their own set of rules, more specifically the type of vehicles that are permitted to use them, bicycles, horses, scooters aren't permitted on M-ways, nor is towing.

 

[AJQS]

I would be horrified to think someone could not wait just a few moments, 40 minutes etc, in a lifetime, is that so long?

Matt

A few moments is fine, a few minutes even but not 40 - How is it going to go down if you're 40 minutes late for work, meeting, interview, appointment? Not very for most people.

I have no problem with hearses driving slowly round town but out on the open road, no.

Life goes on.

 

[gramps]

It wouldn't happen. As outlined about, the Repat cortèges know how to drive properly.

I mean the attitude, IMO there would be a distinct difference in some of the expressions made here - sign of the times though.

 

[unclened]

I think MatBin meant a few minutes every now and then would not amount to any more than 40 or so minutes over the course of a lifetime.

 

[neil_g]

Motorways have their own set of rules, more specifically the type of vehicles that are permitted to use them, bicycles, horses, scooters aren't permitted on M-ways, nor is towing.

i know but speed wise theyre not all that different.

i dont recall any of the articles i read about people getting collared being on the motorway to be honest.

 

[rssmrry]

At a mini roundabout once there was a hearse which was on my right so I gave way, and moved off after he'd passed then realised there was a whole line of limos and people in cars in suits and it dawned on me that I'd cut in on a funeral cortege... So I just did a U turn at the roundabout (yeah not supposed to if you can avoid it but I couldn't just keep going!) and let them carry on.

I don't get why they have to go so slow though, I was at a funeral recently and we trotted along at around the speed limits. There was a slow procession as we left the funeral home (or whatever it's called) but that was on a side street. I couldn't have cared less what speed we did. I can't say I was thinking about the journey too much.

I've also been undertaken on the M8 (before anyone says anything I was doing just above the speed limit to keep up with traffic so I'm not a MLM). I have to say I thought that was quite funny!

I wouldn't overtake but if I could I would take a diversion to avoid them and get past them that way.

 

[Lynton]

Last time i was in one was 2005 (mother in law) and they did the customary walk in front of it from her house to the main road, and then travelled the 10 miles or so to the crematorium at about 40 mph... road alternates between 40, 50 and 60.

Was a hearse and 2 limos.

We were in the last limo. Did a rather clever thing on the roundabouts where (and cannot remmeber how they did it) but one more or less blocked the roundabout so could all stay in a convoy.

Incidentally I passed one today hearse and 2 limos on a dual carriageway - they were doing about 40... went past quite slowly and then booted it...

 

[u8myufo]

I think you maybe have misunderstood....the funeral cortege had a hearse and a limousine (maybe a few other followers) but the rest of the 'snake' was from other motorists, buses, lorries etc.

Minimum speed limits must be displayed by a white number on a blue round background I think.

Ah right Tom I`m with you. I have in my time driven JCB`s up and down the roads, I have never had or seen one with a speed sticker on it :shrug: I would always keep an eye on the traffic building up behind and pull in at the first opportunity if it was too bad. I am fairly sure with though that if you have to track it on the road for more than 3 miles it should be put on a low loader. In all honesty it is the sign of the times where everybody is rushing about and has to be there yesterday and the amount of traffic on the roads does not help, all this causes people to get uptight about it. I have witnessed a Cortege waiting patiently to pull out of junctions for ages ( Admittidely not 40 min ) But that just sums up the respect a lot have for others be they dead or alive.

 

[Tigger.ufo]

Ah right Tom I`m with you. I have in my time driven JCB`s up and down the roads, I have never had or seen one with a speed sticker on it :shrug:

The blue & white is a road sign not on the vehicle. The only place that I can recall seeing them is Dartford (and other) tunnels.

Heather

 

[Natty94]

sure? i mean whats the difference between a motorway and a national limit road in the grand scheme of things?

A lot more dangerous to go slow on a motorway than on an A road, if something was going at 4mph on a motorway it would probably cause a crash, thats why you can get fined for going slow on motorways

 

[ladysue]

The hearse etc should only drive at walking pace to the first junction or about 50 yards, whichever is shortest. Absolutely no reason they should have been doing that in your case.

I would have no trouble overtaking if they don't adhere to that, especially the following cars.

As it happens, it was my wife's funeral last Friday, and the hearse only went at walking speed for about the first 50 yards, just as they should.

I'm so sorry to hear that Vaughan. You have my deepest sympathy

 

[boliston]

A lot more dangerous to go slow on a motorway than on an A road, if something was going at 4mph on a motorway it would probably cause a crash, thats why you can get fined for going slow on motorways

You can't "cause" a crash simply by going slow.

What you mean is that some numpty who is not looking where they are going might "cause" a crash by colliding with the slower vehicle or swerving to avoid it.

 

[big soft moose]

You can be done for driving too slow on any road - but the offence is 'obstructing the traffic' not driving below a specific speed (but as someone already said who is going to ticket a fuineral cortege)

With regard to the Repat convoys - while Mark is completely correct that they do drive properly , on the A420 at least ( I used to work in oxford but lived near wooton basset so I encountered them a lot) the oncoming traffic tends to stop as a mark of respect which does cause remarkable congestion.

On the whole I don't see how overtaking is disrespectful - its not like you are honking and shouting abuse or anything (although i once saw some yob who did that to a repat convoy get pulled over and booked - he was making the tossser hand gesture out of his window so I'd imagine they did him for not being in propper control of his vehicle ). And frankly the deceased is dead so won't care, and his loved ones probably have more on their minds than whether someone is overtaking.

 

[Steep]

Without wanting to offend anyone here, I have no religious beliefs and if I was put out with the rubbish bags on a Friday morning when I "expire" it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

With you there, burn me and scatter me wherever.

That said funerals are not for the dead they're for the living, to show respect for the deceased but I still have no problem passing a cortege (have done so a couple of times on the A9 after being stuck for 30 minutes or so in huge tailbacks). It is possible to do it in a respectful way.

 

[~Sam~]

There was a reporter on Radio 4 a while ago who retook his driving test and was told that he had failed based on the fact that he was doing under 60 on a dual carriage way. His response was that he was trying to drive safely given the fact that this was his driving test - apparently the tester told him that driving too far under what we all perceive as being the 'right' speed could be dangerous.

Now, this was a while ago and I haven't had the time to Google research for hours to provide a link, but I remember it quite vividly as I found it interesting that to do under the limit (which is the limit rather than the prescribed 'must do' speed) and it wasn't that far under - not like 30 in a 70 zone, for example, could lead you to fail your test. I suppose this must have been on an A road as you don't have any part of your driving test on a Motorway.

My father taught me to drive and taught me to respect a funeral procession. However, I haven't come across one doing less than 10 MPH all the way in my years of driving. I believe in a show of respect but honestly think that the situation in the OP would have tested my patience somewhat.

 

[King of Groove]

As a bus driver I would never overtake a funeral procession. Totally disrespectful and I'm sure my passengers would have a go at me.

On Armistice Day on 11th November we are asked to pull over our buses at a safe place, switch off our engines and observe a 2 minute silence. Totally respected by passengers.

A few days before the last general election saw a funeral cortege. The deceased was obviously a big Labour Party supporter as the coffin had huge "Vote Labour" designs on it!

 

[Russ77]

There was a reporter on Radio 4 a while ago who retook his driving test and was told that he had failed based on the fact that he was doing under 60 on a dual carriage way. His response was that he was trying to drive safely given the fact that this was his driving test - apparently the tester told him that driving too far under what we all perceive as being the 'right' speed could be dangerous.

Now, this was a while ago and I haven't had the time to Google research for hours to provide a link, but I remember it quite vividly as I found it interesting that to do under the limit (which is the limit rather than the prescribed 'must do' speed) and it wasn't that far under - not like 30 in a 70 zone, for example, could lead you to fail your test. I suppose this must have been on an A road as you don't have any part of your driving test on a Motorway.

My father taught me to drive and taught me to respect a funeral procession. However, I haven't come across one doing less than 10 MPH all the way in my years of driving. I believe in a show of respect but honestly think that the situation in the OP would have tested my patience somewhat.

I passed my test in 1995, on my mock test I was doing a tad under 40MPH on a 60MPH single carriage way which had a few houses to either side of it. My instructor said that I *could* be failed for that on a test as it might not be seen as driving in accordance to the road conditions as there were no obvious hazards, the visibility was good and the road dry.

Ironically the same stretch of road now has a 40MPH limit

 

[Steep]

On Armistice Day on 11th November we are asked to pull over our buses at a safe place, switch off our engines and observe a 2 minute silence. Totally respected by passengers.

I do that myself to show respect. Passing a cortege is not disrespectful in itself but the way you go about it can be. I wouldn't overtake one in town because there's alway an alternative route if you need it but out on the open road where there isn't always one, certainly I do.

 

[Headless Lois]

As it happens, it was my wife's funeral last Friday, and the hearse only went at walking speed for about the first 50 yards, just as they should.

Really sorry to hear this.

I have been in a few corteges over the years (I sound old now, i realise) and they have kind of speeded up over the years. I remember my nan's driving v slowly, all the way to the church. Meanwhile more recently, they have gone very slowly until on main road, then speeded up.
Regarding red lights, this is clearly nuts, and I think often down to people not wanting to get left behind as they don't know where they are going.

It also used to be the case (ok, now I am going to sound unimaginably old) that people would stop at the side of the road, bow heads, take off hate etc when a funeral procession went past. This seems very rare now.

I would not overtake, it seems disrespectful to me.

A

 

[nilagin]

Motorways have their own set of rules, more specifically the type of vehicles that are permitted to use them, bicycles, horses, scooters aren't permitted on M-ways, nor is towing.

I think you mean mopeds. Scooters are allowed on motorways provided the rider has passed his test.
I've given my family strict instructions not to allow the hearse to drive slowly and hold anyone up. In fact if it were possible I would like a fast lap of Brands Hatch.

 

[Russ77]

I think you mean mopeds. Scooters are allowed on motorways provided the rider has passed his test.
I've given my family strict instructions not to allow the hearse to drive slowly and hold anyone up. In fact if it were possible I would like a fast lap of Brands Hatch.

That'll be my lack of knowledge around the subject of motorised bikes If it's not a "motorbike" then scooter/moped is the same thing in my book :bonk:

Loving the Brands Hatch idea though!

There was a group of us (mainly family) who used to go to all night raves. The subject got on to deaths/funerals once and after an older member of the family had passed away we said that when we all start popping our clogs those remaining should have a rave for us rather than the tradition funeral

OK, it's never gonna happen but the sentiment's there