Future of the Canon 1D4
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LongLensPhotography
Th..th..that's all folks!
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1. I think they said it is the replacement for the current D and Ds cameras. Probably they have stocked up till may and are already making the new ones.
2. One could only guess 1d4 will go down (and not UP!) as soon as the new one hits the retail or even before then in anticipation of upgrade. I am fairly concerned about my mkIII by the way. However mkIV and mkIII will still remain just as good / suitable for work as they were prior to this announcement
2. One could only guess 1d4 will go down (and not UP!) as soon as the new one hits the retail or even before then in anticipation of upgrade. I am fairly concerned about my mkIII by the way. However mkIV and mkIII will still remain just as good / suitable for work as they were prior to this announcement
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With regard to the 1D4 prices, they may not necessarily go down because Canon won't be producing a camera with APS-H sensor anymore which many people using longer lenses really like
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Given the large gap between the 1D4 price and the launch price of the new one I'd wager they'll stay the same. If you look at the price of the Nikon D3 since the D3s was launched it actually went UP (new) and used prices at dealers are now within £100-200 of what the the last of the new ones (where the price dropped again) were being sold for.
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Not sure there'll be any huge drop down... Probably not until some months into the production of the X - then as they begin to filter onto the used market, there'll probably be a natural progression downwards in price.. but guess it'll be slow.. rather than stark.
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Canon has a history of bringing out replacement models, but continuing to make the old model on an apparently ad-hoc basis according to demand (40D/450D etc). At least for a while.
I think the 1Ds is dead, because it wasn't selling much anyway. I also believe that Canon will have done their homework and when the 1DX actually materialises and folks see how good it is, a lot of the comments we're seeing now re the 1D4 will evaporate.
But who knows. However good the new camera is, the 1D4 won't suddenly become rubbish.
Edit: when the 1D4 came out, there were a few 1D3 bargains going - Canon ex-demos, as new with full warranty for £1500. It's a dangerous guessing game though!
I think the 1Ds is dead, because it wasn't selling much anyway. I also believe that Canon will have done their homework and when the 1DX actually materialises and folks see how good it is, a lot of the comments we're seeing now re the 1D4 will evaporate.
But who knows. However good the new camera is, the 1D4 won't suddenly become rubbish.
Edit: when the 1D4 came out, there were a few 1D3 bargains going - Canon ex-demos, as new with full warranty for £1500. It's a dangerous guessing game though!
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KIPAX
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I think the 1d4 will still have its place.. i really want the 1dx for most of my work.. but am also keeping a mk4 for long lens work with my 400mm.. a 1dx would be a backward step for say cricket and the like on a 400mm not needing high iso. I ahve always gone 2 of each.. the mk2, mk3 and mk4 but i really need to keep the mkIV for some stuff.
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The thing is, folks are looking at the 1DX and saying it loses out on pixel reach to the 1D4, it won't AF at f/8 etc, and concluding that the 1D4 still has a place.
I just find it hard to believe that Canon would be so daft (though stranger things have happened
). I think the AF @ f/8 thing is exagerated, as it's not very good at f/8 anyway and extenders always slow it down - which kind of makes a nonsense of the 1D4's reason for being, which Canon has now acknowledged by deleting that from the new camera (no doubt all that pins-taping nonsense will start again soon!). And there's more to IQ than sheer pixel density. Though I wouldn't put much money on it, I would expect the 1DX to at least match the 1D4 when cropped down to 1.3x (still almost 11mp).
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But then you have to ask why Canon has recently introduced a new Mk III 2x Extender which is designed to offer superior AF performance with the new Mk II super-telephotos.... Yeah, I know you could say they *meant* superior AF with the 300/2.8 II and 400/2.8 II, not with the 500 II and 600 II - but that's not what Canon were saying at the time.HoppyUK said:
Canon Bob
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The thing is, folks are looking at the 1DX and saying it loses out on pixel reach to the 1D4, it won't AF at f/8 etc, and concluding that the 1D4 still has a place.
I just find it hard to believe that Canon would be so daft (though stranger things have happened
And there's more to IQ than sheer pixel density. Though I wouldn't put much money on it, I would expect the 1DX to at least match the 1D4 when cropped down to 1.3x (still almost 11mp).
I suspect your right with the improved "cropabilty" of the two naked sensors but there's a bigger issue to the lack of f/8 than simply the magnification involved. Shooting small birds (even on a MkIV) results in the AF sensors coveing quite a portion of the subject's head. The bigger the subject is on the sensor then the easier it is to accurately put the focus where desired (the eye in most instances)....cropping in post can't redefine this.
I've seen people pointing to a possible firmware change later to allow f/8 focussing but I suspect that this won't happen. By making the AF sensor pairs smaller then the focussing accuracy will improve but the resulting smaller microlenses on the pair will mean that more light is needed and I believe that this is why the f/8 had to be abandonned.
Bob
What's the difference for the AF system if your aperture dims one stop 5.6 -> 8 but you are shooting a +1 EV brighter scene? The amount of light is the same.
I never understood this AF point sensitivity, why is it tied to the f-number and not available light. There must be a clear physics reason related to the circle of confusion etc for phase detect AF.
I wonder if you can use contrast detect AF on live view and f/8 lenses?
I never understood this AF point sensitivity, why is it tied to the f-number and not available light. There must be a clear physics reason related to the circle of confusion etc for phase detect AF.
I wonder if you can use contrast detect AF on live view and f/8 lenses?
Geometry.
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Your mixing focusing and exposure. The focusing happens at the widest available aperture. Exposure is done when you press the shutter.
Canon Bob
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The AF sensor pairs look at the opposite sides of the aperture so a smaller aperture gives a narrower angle.....nothing to do with light (providing there is sufficient to show detail) and hence why an f/1.2 lens can provide enough detail for the AF sensor when it's almost dark.
Yes, you can AF with contrast detection at f/8....although light will now be a much bigger the equation.
Bob
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Yes, that's the problem. Phase-detect AF has a dimensional aspect and needs a physically wide aperture to work accurately. That's why AF is poor at f/8, and why pins-taping doesn't work very well even though it forces the system to try.
The other thing is, if there are indeed drawbacks to the 1DX for certain applications, then perhaps Canon will address that with the 7DMk2. Maybe they can't do so much about the f/8 thing, but you could restore the 1D4's effective pixel reach at f/5.6. If you get my meaning LOL
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The 7D already does this.
LOL yes
7DMk2 should do it better, and have other features to keep happy those 1D4 owners who are currently a bit miffed. Maybe
Canon Bob
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The 7D already does this.
Well, does it really?
LOL yes
I'll go with your first statement Richard.
Does the 7D have the f/5.6 "pixel reach" to match a 1200mm f/8 combination?....that'll be 840mm on a 1.6 crop versus 1200mm on a 1.3 crop.
Bob
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Fair point Bob. I'm just hoping that Canon have logged the problem, and will address it somehow. I guess you're talking about BIFs, where you can't get any closer? Tricky...
Canon Bob
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Fair point Bob. I'm just hoping that Canon have logged the problem, and will address it somehow. I guess you're talking about BIFs, where you can't get any closer? Tricky...
Not only BIF's but smaller birds close to MFD (5.5m). A tube helps but prevents opportunities further out.
Bob
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I can see an opportunity for a 5D3-plus to fill that slot. A full pro spec upgrade of the current camera (full weather sealing, 5fps, high grade shutter, good AF) and at least 30mp, but without the bulk of a battery pack. Higher priced, but sub 1DX level - perfect for weddings and GP photography where you just don't need the speed.
That would also leave space below for a 5D2-Lite, entry-level full frame. And Canon seems committed to high end crop format cameras too, that have some inherant advantages - as as been discussed. The two ranges could overlap quite comfortably.
I don't see that the new 1DX blocks the way for any of these very desirable new options, though of course Canon might take a different view of what's going to make them most money, which is a rather different game to the one we'd like them to play
