Gadgets or Image - which is more important to us?

[DG Phototraining]

Image

And then the gear that gives the ability to capture that image

My Digital journey was chasing a certain look and a higher ISO capability than I had, I finally found my look & ISO when I changed to FX and primes

I like the idea of mirrorless for being silent, anything else it does better than my D750s is a (small) bonus, and I currently don't see any mirrorless worth changing to (or anything else for that matter)

So now as I'm really happy that I have the gear I need I couldn't give a toss about gear and can focus all thought on just the image - which makes me happier

Dave

 

[HoppyUK]

Some refreshing honesty in this thread, and also some fairly blatant hypocrisy. It's funny how those who claim 'it's all about the image' often happen to own the latest and most expensive gear

I don't have a problem with gear and GAS, it's all part of the enjoyment. Nothing wrong with that, and something new and shiny always stimulates more picture taking

I think it's also worth noting a theme that comes through in quite a few posts here - it's not just the image, and it's not all about the gear either. The most enjoyable and rewarding part is the process - all the effort and skill that comes after you get an idea in your mind's eye and up to the moment you click the shutter. Sometimes that process takes a couple of seconds, or maybe a couple of weeks in my case

 

[Raymond Lin]

What is full frame? 5x4?

When the Nikon D100 came out, a prominent wedding photographer was interviewed in Amateur Photographer. He stated that the six megapixels of the D100's DX size sensor made it the perfect camera for weddings...


Steve.

No doubt, I remember thinking 30D res was perfect too but time moves on I guess and our expectations also goes up with it. Like DVD was considered crystal clear when it first appeared, the HD but full HD was the real deal, Now 8k TV is coming out.

 

[ianp5a]

If it's a hobby, then it's up to the individual. And may change over time. And I'd say it's not just equipment or image, but shooting and processing too.

Also, changing equipment is not just about sensor quality. There are other reasons to change cameras. And add other accessories.

I like all of the above.

 

[Fraser Euan White]

Some refreshing honesty in this thread............................
I think it's also worth noting a theme ......................................... The most enjoyable and rewarding part is the process - all the effort and skill that comes after you get an idea in your mind's eye and up to the moment you click the shutter. Sometimes that process takes a couple of seconds, or maybe a couple of weeks in my case

Exactly what i feel and have said in numerous posts prior to this thread but thought I was 'on my own' - thankfully I'm not as peculiar as I thought

 

[gad-westy]

Exactly what i feel and have said in numerous posts prior to this thread but thought I was 'on my own' - thankfully I'm not as peculiar as I thought

I think if I remember rightly, in the past you've said or implied that the image itself isn't important to you at all. I would guess most people still ultimately have the final image in mind even if it's only a part of the enjoyment. That said, I had a stressful day at work the other day and decided to go out and take some photos in the evening. Barely got the camera out in 2 hours and got home and didn't keep any of them. Still enjoyed it.

 

[Dave Pickett]

It's for most of us a hobby, and we all like to spend money on our hobbies so yes I like nice gear, and have just bought a D500. My best photos have been taken on a Fuji S5 pro which is 6mp and I had them enlarged to A2 and they were perfect. I know I don't need the equipment I have, but equally I don't need my Merc estate or my MX5 to get from A to B.

I stopped trying to justify any purchase a long time ago, if I want something that I can afford then I buy it. Buying my D500 re ignited my interest in photography, and for me this is sufficient justification.

A pro would (should?) look at things differently and for any potential extra piece of equipment should be asking whether it will enable them to make a return on the investment. For this reason pros often have older equipment than us hobbyists.

 

[HoppyUK]

Exactly what i feel and have said in numerous posts prior to this thread but thought I was 'on my own' - thankfully I'm not as peculiar as I thought

TBH, I'm not sure a lot of people really analyse their interest that closely, and that's cool, but when I was publishing photo magazines every article was considered for subject, technique, and equipment coverage. Pretty broad brush strokes but a handy way of looking at things and moderating overall magazine content for variety and balance,

I actually consider myself fortunate in getting a buzz out of all those aspects, and when occasionally they all come together in a decent image - well, happy days I don't have much time for those who say it's all about the final image and stick their noses in the air as they sling the Leica over their shoulder. It's not only untrue for most people, but unhelpful and misses out so many important and enjoyable aspects involved in the whole process.

 

[DG Phototraining]

I don't have much time for those who say it's all about the final image and stick their noses in the air as they sling the Leica over their shoulder

That's clearly a well known Leica owner's trait, I've seen that myself

Dave

 

[gad-westy]

I actually consider myself fortunate in getting a buzz out of all those aspects, and when occasionally they all come together in a decent image - well, happy days I don't have much time for those who say it's all about the final image and stick their noses in the air as they sling the Leica over their shoulder. It's not only untrue for most people, but unhelpful and misses out so many important and enjoyable aspects involved in the whole process.

Ha ha. This is very true. Many a youtube vlogger has published a video about how irrelevant gear is, whilst filming on a GH5 and a shelf full of white lenses sat behind them. There is a point to it I suppose. When brand new to photogrpahy, many of us probably do assume the gear plays a much bigger role than it does. I guess for newcomers, these messages may serve a purpose. When you know a bit more, you kind of know what difference it will make to images and the answer is very often nothing but we want it anyway.

 

[keeweeman]

I think i am somewhere in between, the final image is the bit i love, its the end result of either planning, hard work (if a trek is involved) or a complete fluke, but i do enjoy the process of getting the image too especially if it involved a bit of an adventure in the mountains to get it.

i'm actually not too arsed currently about camera bodies simply because my d750 is doing everything i want it too, there is plenty of gadgets out there i would quite like but i don't tend to get hung up on the latest and greatest tech when it comes to bodies and lenses. If i were to get more serious about pursuing wedding photography on a part time basis (would have liked to this year but health issues stopped it) then i would actually go out and buy another d750 regradless of what is now available. The thing i do need to invest in now is glass, ideally i could do with getting a 70-200 and a wide angle whether it be a 20mm prime or a 16-35mm f4, but those aren't actually GAS currently as i have needed them for a couple of years but just haven't had the cash spare to buy them so i have had to borrow from friends and family/make do on occasion to get the photos i want.

 

[dancook]

I obsess about having the perfect camera for the intended use... and how the grass is greener on the otherside..

So i've had a lot of different cameras recently... I've settled on A9's for work, X1D for portraits, high quality stuff - and perhaps rebuying the Leica Q for candid/street.

The enjoyment of new gear drives me to use it, though it distracts me from pushing myself into projects or bodies of work.

 

[HoppyUK]

Image

And then the gear that gives the ability to capture that image

My Digital journey was chasing a certain look and a higher ISO capability than I had, I finally found my look & ISO when I changed to FX and primes

I like the idea of mirrorless for being silent, anything else it does better than my D750s is a (small) bonus, and I currently don't see any mirrorless worth changing to (or anything else for that matter)

So now as I'm really happy that I have the gear I need I couldn't give a toss about gear and can focus all thought on just the image - which makes me happier

Dave

I know what you mean Dave, but to say you 'don't give a toss' about the gear is hardly the full story. You have a shooting style that is totally dependent on a certain type of high-end equipment, ie full-frame cameras and fast prime lenses

 

[john.margetts]

What I don't understand is people buying a particular brand, investing in lenses then selling the lot to buy a different brand.

This always amazes me. There have been more than one post on here where the poster has mentioned selling all their gear to move to another brand and then selling that to move back to the first brand. I doubt that any of us are so good as to exceed the capabilities of modern kit.

For me, it is the image that is important. I am on my third digital camera since 2004 and I doubt I shall ever buy another (unless it dies on me, that is). Playing with nice kit can be fun - that is what my collection of 50+ film cameras are for - but for serious image making it is usually digital.

 

[Cagey75]

I have to admit, I enjoy the post processing as much as the shooting, and I don't have the latest and greatest gear only because I'm too poor But the fact I stick at it knowing I won't have all the shinies means something. If I still only had my old Fuji bridge camera I'd still be taking the same images pretty much, but I'd still be here talking smack and keeping an eye on the what's what gear-wise, tormenting my self.

 

[Cagey75]

This always amazes me. There have been more than one post on here where the poster has mentioned selling all their gear to move to another brand and then selling that to move back to the first brand. I doubt that any of us are so good as to exceed the capabilities of modern kit.

For me, it is the image that is important. I am on my third digital camera since 2004 and I doubt I shall ever buy another (unless it dies on me, that is). Playing with nice kit can be fun - that is what my collection of 50+ film cameras are for - but for serious image making it is usually digital.

I don't see what's so strange about it? People get bored with gear, that's their business is it not? I wouldn't question anyone looking for a complete change, I think it can be as refreshing as when you just started out. They might only do it for this simple reason, not because they think the new gear will transform their photography, but because new gear of any kind is just nice, it's a change, something new to learn. As I said earlier, if it helps get them up off their ass, spend less time on here and more out actually shooting, then it's a great idea.

 

[HoppyUK]

This always amazes me. There have been more than one post on here where the poster has mentioned selling all their gear to move to another brand and then selling that to move back to the first brand.

It's a stage we all go through isn't it? Before the penny drops

I doubt that any of us are so good as to exceed the capabilities of modern kit.

That's often said, but It's easy to exceed the capabilities of any equipment. Try shooting wildlife without a long lens, or dark interiors without a tripod or flash etc,

The real challenge is getting yourself in front of a good subject, at the right time, in the right light, and pressing the shutter at the right moment. And when that happens, let's hope you've also got the right equipment. and the skills to use it.

 

[gad-westy]

I don't see what's so strange about it? People get bored with gear, that's their business is it not? I wouldn't question anyone looking for a complete change, I think it can be as refreshing as when you just started out. They might only do it for this simple reason, not because they think the new gear will transform their photography, but because new gear of any kind is just nice, it's a change, something new to learn. As I said earlier, if it helps get them up off their ass, spend less time on here and more out actually shooting, then it's a great idea.

Yep.

A pal of mine is a superb drummer. Obsessive about it and it absorbs the vast majority of his spare time. He has 6 or 7 different drum sets/kits. I'm sure they all have a slightly different sound but I'm equally sure he has no 'need' for any more than one.

Another pal is into competitive cycling and triathlon, has 3 or 4 high end road bikes and is always buying new bits and bobs for them or selling one and buying another. You get the gist.

It's harmless stuff, unless you are the bank manager!

 

[Cagey75]

Yep.

A pal of mine is a superb drummer. Obsessive about it and it absorbs the vast majority of his spare time. He has 6 or 7 different drum sets/kits. I'm sure they all have a slightly different sound but I'm equally sure he has no 'need' for any more than one.

Another pal is into competitive cycling and triathlon, has 3 or 4 high end road bikes and is always buying new bits and bobs for them or selling one and buying another. You get the gist.

It's harmless stuff, unless you are the bank manager!

GAS is a lot more infectious on any musician forum, they are crazy obsessed with makes, models, styles - especially guitarists. I used to visit one when I was trying to learn to play, and I felt really, really out of place with my cheapo Tanglewood. I just hung in the beginner section I can't think of any guitarists who only have one instrument, or even 4-5!

 

[DG Phototraining]

I know what you mean Dave, but to say you 'don't give a toss' about the gear is hardly the full story. You have a shooting style that is totally dependent on a certain type of high-end equipment, ie full-frame cameras and fast prime lenses

Ok, to clarify for others then - I was interested in gear until I managed to get the gear to do the job I want from it, now that position has been fulfilled I'm no longer interested in equipment

In two years or so as my D750s are starting to get a bit long in the tooth I'll again be interested in a possible replacement, which the Nikon mirrorless clearly isn't as yet and that's just my 1-card paranoia, this makes it such a non-starter I've not ready any reviews; my current thinking is that in 2020 I may buy some low shutter count D750s from those GAS sufferers there are so many of

Dave

 

[Raymond Lin]

GAS is a lot more infectious on any musician forum, they are crazy obsessed with makes, models, styles - especially guitarists. I used to visit one when I was trying to learn to play, and I felt really, really out of place with my cheapo Tanglewood. I just hung in the beginner section I can't think of any guitarists who only have one instrument, or even 4-5!

This past week the retailers have been putting last year’s stock of Gibson historics on sale down from £3500 to £2500. If you know about them, it’s a bargain price....the forums went nuts and a LOT of people bought one. There must have been over 100k of guitars sold on that thread on it and all the people posted, it won’t be their first guitar, it probably won’t be their 3rd guitar.

Guitarist also tend to have a lot of the same, some have like 5 Les Pauls. Some buy a new one because it’s lighter/wood/age or even colour. Because it’s organic, how it plays is a critical part so people often change to a different guitar of the same model because it plays better. It’s almost like changing from a D750 to another D750 because one’s grip has 1/1000th difference in thickness.

 

[Cagey75]

This past week the retailers have been putting last year’s stock of Gibson historics on sale down from £3500 to £2500. If you know about them, it’s a bargain price....the forums went nuts and a LOT of people bought one. There must have been over 100k of guitars sold on that thread on it and all the people posted, it won’t be their first guitar, it probably won’t be their 3rd guitar.

Guitarist also tend to have a lot of the same, some have like 5 Les Pauls. Some buy a new one because it’s lighter/wood/age or even colour. Because it’s organic, how it plays is a critical part so people often change to a different guitar of the same model because it plays better. It’s almost like changing from a D750 to another D750 because one’s grip has 1/1000th difference in thickness.

I know of Gibson guitars, not so much specific models, but I do know they range from about €700 right up to €5K in music stores here. A guy I did a course with was one of those, he owns 6 guitars and every spare time we had at the computers he would be online eyeing up more, and they were in that high end range too. I actually had this conversation with him, comparing the Guitarist GAS to photographers. He had no problem admitting that he was a little obsessive about it, but he reckoned he'd g mad without this to keep him occupied. He doesn't even play in a band, he just plays them at home

 

[Gaz J]

Problem I’ve got now is I’m still taking crap and can’t blame the camera any more.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I know of Gibson guitars, not so much specific models, but I do know they range from about €700 right up to €5K in music stores here. A guy I did a course with was one of those, he owns 6 guitars and every spare time we had at the computers he would be online eyeing up more, and they were in that high end range too. I actually had this conversation with him, comparing the Guitarist GAS to photographers. He had no problem admitting that he was a little obsessive about it, but he reckoned he'd g mad without this to keep him occupied. He doesn't even play in a band, he just plays them at home

Guitarist GAS is much much worse…because guitars are organic material and weight plays a big part for the same type of guitar, no 2 trees are the same so people always look for "the one".

Confession - I am guilty….got this a few years ago

and i suck.

For me, guitars (or music) is more the gear, as opposed to the music because i suck at the music part so I end up enjoy what I can take from it.

 

[Cagey75]

Guitarist GAS is much much worse…because guitars are organic material and weight plays a big part for the same type of guitar, no 2 trees are the same so people always look for "the one".

Confession - I am guilty….got this a few years ago

and i suck.

For me, guitars (or music) is more the gear, as opposed to the music because i suck at the music part so I end up enjoy what I can take from it.

That is a beauty! I think If I had money I'd have a really nice guitar hung on the wall, the one I do have is in the garage, buried under a pile of Christmas decorations or other boxes of crap. I kept meaning to re-string it and try to pick up where I left off but never did get around to it. I can only play open chords, I can strum along to some songs but that's about it. I gave up on it when scales entered the picture. I can't read music notation, scales confused or frustrated me, I was just using simple tabs.

 

[JJ!]

Had a think about this over the weekend and...

Honestly the most enjoyment I get out of photography is seeing how happy my wife and her friends are when they see the images.

Making them happy makes me feel happy. Many a time have I taken what I would call ‘not my best’ photos but they all love them and it feels good. I like giving other people memories of their horses and their bond with them.

So I guess it’s about the final image for me but I also like new gear and I am a sucker for gadgets so maybe it’s a bit of both!

 

[Raymond Lin]

That is a beauty! I think If I had money I'd have a really nice guitar hung on the wall, the one I do have is in the garage, buried under a pile of Christmas decorations or other boxes of crap. I kept meaning to re-string it and try to pick up where I left off but never did get around to it. I can only play open chords, I can strum along to some songs but that's about it. I gave up on it when scales entered the picture. I can't read music notation, scales confused or frustrated me, I was just using simple tabs.

I can read music as I had piano lessons for a couple of years but I prefer tabs for guitar.

Anyway, I don't fault people for talking the gear part for photography as I take the gear part for guitars. I am in the extreme camp between the 2.

Had a think about this over the weekend and...

Honestly the most enjoyment I get out of photography is seeing how happy my wife and her friends are when they see the images.

Making them happy makes me feel happy. Many a time have I taken what I would call ‘not my best’ photos but they all love them and it feels good. I like giving other people memories of their horses and their bond with them.

So I guess it’s about the final image for me but I also like new gear and I am a sucker for gadgets so maybe it’s a bit of both!

I know for a lot of musicians, their joy (if the interviews are to be believed) comes from performing in front of people, the screams, the adulation and the happy faces in the audience. That to me is what photography is, it makes me REALLY happy when a client comes back and thank me for my hard work.

 

[Cagey75]

Had a think about this over the weekend and...

Honestly the most enjoyment I get out of photography is seeing how happy my wife and her friends are when they see the images.

Making them happy makes me feel happy. Many a time have I taken what I would call ‘not my best’ photos but they all love them and it feels good. I like giving other people memories of their horses and their bond with them.

So I guess it’s about the final image for me but I also like new gear and I am a sucker for gadgets so maybe it’s a bit of both!

A lot of this for me too. Even when I shot with crappy old compacts I enjoyed when people said "you have a good eye for an image" or admired some of my images. That spurred me on to buying better gear I guess, thought, if I'm even a little above the average Joe at taking pictures, then I should have something nice to shoot with

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

I have to admit, I enjoy the post processing as much as the shooting, and I don't have the latest and greatest gear only because I'm too poor But the fact I stick at it knowing I won't have all the shinies means something. If I still only had my old Fuji bridge camera I'd still be taking the same images pretty much, but I'd still be here talking smack and keeping an eye on the what's what gear-wise, tormenting my self.

For a sec there I thought I read "taking smack"

 

[Sassafras]

I’m penurious so there would be very little point in my taking an interest in the latest cameras. This has been a good thing because I’m not distracted by gear acquisitions and my interest centres on photos (mine and those of others). And I know my focal length really well because I only have one lens.

 

[Cagey75]

For a sec there I thought I read "taking smack"

Only on weekends

 

[ian-83]

For me as an amateur all I want to do is take nice images, somewhere along the lines I got into worrying too much about technical specs of camera's etc and feeling I needed the latest and greatest to take good pictures. I wish I could go back to when I got my first camera with a handful of kit lens and told myself to stick with those and just keep practicing and the results would come.
I also find suffering from mild depression doesn't help me as when I am having an off time and feeling a bit down I tend to get my phone out and browse the internet and see what I could buy to cheer myself up, could range form a simple accessories to trading all my gear in and buying a different system. But I know at the end of the day my results will still be the same. Tough viscous circle to break sometimes but I am getting there slowly.

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

Stay strong Ian,I was exactly like you , whenever you fancy buying something stop and sleep on it for a few days,most times the feeling should pass

 

[ian-83]

Stay strong Ian,I was exactly like you , whenever you fancy buying something stop and sleep on it for a few days,most times the feeling should pass

That's what I keep doing. Also keep telling myself my images won't look any better just my wallet will be later, and probably my wife a bit more madder at me! That last thing alone is enough to stop me.

 

[mike weeks]

Several times recently the subject has been raised in other threads and almost without fail contributors state 'the final image is what counts'.

However with other threads running I for one am horrified at how often people seem to change their cameras.

This question is more for the enthusiast than the pro as i full understand why a feature on a new release of camera may make their job and 'keeper rate' much better but I get horrified when, say an owner of a Sony A7r? states on a Nikon/Canon mirrorless release 'not for me because it hasn't got.........' What makes you even consider changing cameras so quickly and what is 'so wrong' with the Sony camera that you think changing it will make a difference to the final image.

Then, the other scenario; 'No real difference in image quality between FF and micro...........' and then state that the Micro.......does everything better, a few days later they state how nice a FF version of this camera would be awesome?.......Why if you believed your initial argument that FF offers no advantage?

It would appear that the evidence actually suggests we like our gadgets more than the final image but don't like to admit it, we find 'excuses' to change or are we really falling for the marketing of new cameras?

I have a D4 - 6 year old technology 16 megapixel that still performs brilliantly and does everything much better than I can; I really can't see any need to upgrade to improve my photography.

Thoughts?.............

Seeing this post and we both know another you are involved in I would say that many could think that you have an issue with people having new gear, so when did you buy your D4? A D4 is a bit of a dream for many, were you sucked in by the hype? or did you feel that you were buying a piece of equipment that would last for many years?

I have a great collection of equipment, most bought to use in my business and some bought from the profits as that business because I enjoy using great gear BUT I buy what I know about and only when the price is right - yes I am looking forward to trying the latest Nikon mirror-less, not because I want to buy but because I want to know the direction they are going.

They say to make a small fortune with photography you start with a large fortune, buy the toys and end up with the you've guessed it, a small fortune>

Mike

 

[Fraser Euan White]

I think if I remember rightly, in the past you've said or implied that the image itself isn't important to you at all. I would guess most people still ultimately have the final image in mind even if it's only a part of the enjoyment. That said, I had a stressful day at work the other day and decided to go out and take some photos in the evening. Barely got the camera out in 2 hours and got home and didn't keep any of them. Still enjoyed it.

Hopefully I can answer this and @mike weeks at the same time.

You are perfectly right - this is what I have been saying If the end image was really important to me then I would have given up photography as more often than not I 'come home' with images that aren't great but I have still enjoyed the process of getting those images - probably why I am enjoying film and my own developing as the process is 'more involved'. I am one of those persons that clicks on links in signatures and mostly I am extremely impressed with the images members take and would love to get images as good myself but I struggle.

I have absolutely no objection to people buying new gear - it makes them the same as me - they have purchased a new gadget; what I found strange and the reason for this thread is the fact that if you post in the 'Talk Equipment' section the replies come in 'thick and fast' and you feel that people really believe that if you don't have the very latest gear your photography will suffer where as in reality some are just excuses for GAS. When I would post I love the actual taking of the picture and using the camera I felt like I was an alien; this thread has shown otherwise.

 

[mike weeks]

Arnold Palmer the golfer is credited with saying "the more I practice the luckier I get" (or similar), the point with photography is that technique is king ( i was told when learning to shoot that once you can stop thinking about how to do and just do it as in the gun becomes an extension of you then you will become a good shot) so mastering techniques will mean a higher success rate but advances in technology can mean the camera can master more of the technique so that the photographer has to do less, having started with a Zenit and all that entailed with exposure and focus I know how much technology has improved my hit rate (as much as I enjoyed the Zenit, it also frustrated the hell out of me), but there is still some of me to be factored in.

So IMHO having the latest gear can give an edge but no matter how good the gear the photographers input plays a major part BUT a bit like driving a great car or drinking a fine wine using great gear can also bring pleasure

Mike

 

[sk66]

Personally, I'm a technology geek. And the photography I enjoy most is due to the challenges it imposes. For both reasons I tend to go for the latest/greatest if I think it might actually help me... which is kind of funny as it helps reduce the challenges which is what I mostly enjoy.

It's also in my best interest business wise to stay current with the latest gear, but that has little to do with actually taking pictures (or even actually owning the gear). Luckily, I'm in a position where I can afford what I want... but I still have to justify it to myself which isn't always easy.

 

[chris malcolm]

When I was a schoolboy I was convinced that I'd write much better essays -- and exam answers -- if only I had a really good fountain pen. On my next birthday I was given one. It didn't improve my writing. I concluded that it wasn't good enough. Unfortunately the best fountain pens were VERY expensive. As the decades passed I became well enough educated to realise that the most expensive fountain pens weren't the best, any more than the most expensive chronometers were the best timekeepers. I decided in fact that the best pens weren't even the traditional fountain pen. I became financially well enough off, and well enough educated, to be able to buy what I was pretty sure was the best pen -- in terms of writing instrument functionality -- that was available.

Not unexpectedly, it didn't improve my writing. But on the other hand it did make my writing more enjoyable, and easier for other people to read.

 

[Phil V]

All I’m saying is that @chris malcolm is my new favourite poster.