Gear snobbery from regular professionals (vs big names)

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Phill
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OK come to one of my jobs where I use a canon 1dx and an f1.8 lens... I am forcd to use iso 25600 and f.1.8 to get enough speed (usualy about 800 shutter) to capture the action... you can come along anytime you want and show me how you get pics like mine with lessewr equipment... please do.. you could save me a fortune...

no I ahvent read the whole thread.. but I saw this and thought... what a complete and utter##### :)
Out of curiosity and now wanting to set you off anymore so lol. What is it your shooting?
 
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No camera with a mirror offers true silent shutter it's impossible and actually shooting travel and street work all those features have now become key to the way I work. Can I work without them? Yes. Is my life much easier with them? 100%.

Some people do like bigger cameras that fine, I never said anything about other people's choices. When I'm travelling with 2-3 cameras and 4-5 lenses the weight saving for me is in multiple kgs. It's all about your intended uses.

Lindsay summed up what I mean to say but much more eloquently in the post earlier.

A mirrorless camera is 'silent' but am damn sure youll be makin a noise yourself so all that work the camera people but in and your bloody jacket has ruined it... i dont know why they bother hahaha
 
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stuart
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I just wanted to say that the majority of brand ambassadors aren't even close to what's being described in this thread and I felt it was important to make that point, and I did agree with the points you raised about smoke and mirrors.

I think I'll leave now because there are signs this may become a witch hunt.
I'm sure it won't things like that wouldn't happen on this friendly forum . I'm glad you replied and informed me on how it is . To me sometimes it doesn't look like it. Suppose I just find it hard to believe that some pros are getting better results with their fuji than their 1 series body or must be since they are all changing .
 
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Lindsay
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To me sometimes it doesn't look like it. Suppose I just find it hard to believe that some pros are getting better results with their fuji than their 1 series body or must be since they are all changing .
I find it impossible to believe as well Stuart (I own some Fuji cameras) if they're talking in pure performance terms, but when you're a working professional and you have cameras in your hands probably every day then other factors come into play. A big thing now is the whole matter of size and weight and therefore portability + inconvenience - people are starting to realise just how important that is. We also have to take into account what it is the photographer in question is shooting - if they're shooting studio portraits in controlled conditions where they don't need long pro zooms, or crazy ISO capabilities, then a small camera system may well be just as good as the biggest most modern full frame setup, and in some ways 'better' for that photographer. But as you said, if they are still using their normal equipment for work and not actually using the camera they're promoting, and that raises a red flag to my eyes.

To qualify my own position, I was a Canon full frame shooter for many years and then three years ago I developed a disability which was likely to be career ending. I decided to try a particular new system and I was amazed by how good it was in both performance and IQ - in particular the lens ecosystem was very mature and covered my needs. As time went on the smallness of the system meant I could undertake personal projects (in a way that I never covered with my big full frame cameras and lenses) as well as taking jobs in London because I no longer had problems carrying my kit to and from work on trains/tubes etc. So 'for me' there were an awful lot of additional benefits and I can say that the equipment I now use is 'the best equipment for me'.
 
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I just wanted to say that the majority of brand ambassadors aren't even close to what's being described in this thread and I felt it was important to make that point, and I did agree with the points you raised about smoke and mirrors.

I think I'll leave now because there are signs this may become a witch hunt.
I think there's a big difference between the "average ambassador" and the "spokespeople" being described by most.
If you're an ambassador for Olympus, I wouldn't know it.
 
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If you're an ambassador for Olympus, I wouldn't know it.
:p .... I'm not sure how to take that!

Yes - there are various things which normal ambassadors might do, including behind-the-scenes stuff such as consulting on new equipment, making recommendations, testing prototypes and helping to educate the photographers who have bought into the system so they can understand how it works and get the best from their investment (in order to do that you really have to be using the kit all the time yourself, which I feel is really important). But from what I've seen, in order to be in an actual paid role you would need to be on par with David Bailey's old position, or similar. I think the various camera manufacturers have different ways of going about things in terms of who they align themselves with and in what way. Some brands might be more flamboyant and others are definitely more low-key.
 
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:p .... I'm not sure how to take that!
Certainly not as a negative.

What you are describing your role as is similar to what being a CPS/NPS member is (or used to be). Some preferential treatment, some first looks for feedback, free loaner/demos, etc.
People like yourself who use a particular brand and are "ambassadors," but not "spokespeople," tend to be fairly honest and "even handed." Like Thom Hogan w/ Nikon. They tell you the good and the bad as applicable. They don't recommend something blatantly.

Anytime I hear someone say anything is universally great, or universally crap, they go on my "dumb ass" list. And dumb ass posts about "why I switched" or Tony Northrop's "why I want to switch, but can't" put me off. Because they are usually very subjective/biased and making a big deal about something minor. And because I highly suspect they are based more on money/support than actual relevance.

There are very few well known/big names that I can fully respect/trust any more. And that's a shame.
 
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Lindsay
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There are still plenty of well-known photographers who I admire and respect. There are also some who I have problems with, and they tend to be the ones who can't put their money where their mouth is, but I would say they're in a small minority.

Going back to the OP, I have received (and continue to receive) hate mail from some very ignorant people around the world who take exception to the fact that I shoot with a particular camera brand or style of camera. Whilst that sounds bizarre, and hard to believe, it does commonly happen (not just to brand ambassadors but to anyone reasonably established) and there is a vocal minority who fit that mould. There is an erroneous belief out there that you're not a real professional (and therefore you must be a fraud) if you don't carry out all of your work using the latest FF offerings - these viewpoints appear to be held by people who are inexperienced and poorly educated in camera technology and the craft of photography, and they will attack anyone who feels otherwise. There is a particular and very vocal camera forum where some of the respondents have elevated that treatment to a fine art - you have to see it to believe it. With some of them, there's almost no point trying to put forward a rational argument - I'm guessing this is what the OP may have witnessed.
 
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Ian
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There is an erroneous belief out there that you're not a real professional (and therefore you must be a fraud) if you don't carry out all of your work using the latest FF offerings - these viewpoints appear to be held by people who are inexperienced and poorly educated in camera technology and the craft of photography, and they will attack anyone who feels otherwise. There is a particular and very vocal camera forum where some of the respondents have elevated that treatment to a fine art - you have to see it to believe it. With some of them, there's almost no point trying to put forward a rational argument - I'm guessing this is what the OP may have witnessed.
Yep. That's it.
 
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Lindsay ..your last e mail did hit a chord with me ...people dont beleive what you do with equipment . Forums when you are a total outsider and they wont even listen to what you say ..total clique mentality ( Nikonites ) People more interested in if you blipped a character on your keyboard than what you say .Criticize you on the forum but spend hours going though your work on your website and then find nothing to criticize ..so go Lindsay give them some stick.
 

big soft moose

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Lindsay ..your last e mail did hit a chord with me ...people dont beleive what you do with equipment . Forums when you are a total outsider and they wont even listen to what you say ..total clique mentality ( Nikonites ) People more interested in if you blipped a character on your keyboard than what you say .Criticize you on the forum but spend hours going though your work on your website and then find nothing to criticize ..so go Lindsay give them some stick.
to be honest people listen to lyndsay because

a) she's an established pro with a credible body of work, and

b) despite this she doesnt come over as a know all (she's also a really nice person)

this isnt really comparable with someone who comes over as the big I am stating opinions as fact with nothing to back them up and hiding behind flacid excuses as to why. As to the website - as to there being nothing to criticize on your site ... well suffice to say that isnt remotely true , if you want a site critique ask for one in a seperate thread, but be aware that it could go on for several pages
 
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Lindsay
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Yep. That's it.
Ian, in the last three years I've seen forms of camera jihadism sweeping certain forums, and it can be fairly brutal. The best thing is to just leave them to their arguments, a sane viewpoint isn't always welcome. The most important thing is that we use the equipment which suits us - the things we photograph and our own personal preferences. As a professional who has switched to a miniaturised system I do get lots of questions sent to me and that's one of the reasons I talk about my equipment choices, but it has come back to bite me on many occasions.
 
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Why do the really big names feel able to embrace stuff other than the Canon/Nikon full-frame hegemony when others don't?.
My answer would be different to most on this thread.
What if ... the purchase choices for full-frame Canon/Nikon are fairly obvious (easy) and those pieces of equipment are fairly easy to use to achieve a moderately competent result in the professional sphere without too much specialist knowledge or higher levels of skill.
What if ... everything else is just a bit less easy? - ergo : the moderate majority use the logical choices.
 

big soft moose

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I. As a professional who has switched to a miniaturised system I do get lots of questions sent to me and that's one of the reasons I talk about my equipment choices, but it has come back to bite me on many occasions.
one of the key things in how you talk about your equipment choices - and one of the reasons you were pivotal in changing my opinion about CSC - is that you don't come over as saying your way is the only way ... some pro's (i'm not naming names as id rather not get sued) do have a tendency to promote the " I use XYZ and therefore its the best possible option and you must too if you want to be taken seriously" that argument leads to derision and disregarding their view point , whether they are arguing for CSC, FX, medium format or name it .

I remember buying a book on macro photgraphy once and being turned off to read in the first page "If you are serious about macro you must use medium format" erm , no sorry

too often the CSC vs DSLR argument bogs down in this is better, no it isnt, yes it is, no it isnt, yes it is, my dads bigger than your dad, yes but you smell.... your posts and blog are a breath of fresh air in comparrison
 
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big soft moose

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My answer would be different to most on this thread.
What if ... the purchase choices for full-frame Canon/Nikon are fairly obvious (easy) and those pieces of equipment are fairly easy to use to achieve a moderately competent result in the professional sphere without too much specialist knowledge or higher levels of skill.
What if ... everything else is just a bit less easy? - ergo : the moderate majority use the logical choices.
I suspect its also because most of us can't afford to change systems easily - the reason i went to canon FF was that i already had a bunch of canon lenses and Canon DX bodies... there could be a lot to be said for changing to say OMD , but while the cost of the replacement body isnt much different I can't also afford to replace all my lenses, flash guns etc
 
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big soft moose

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I spent five minuites found about 25 things but then decided I lacked the arsed
 
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My answer would be different to most on this thread.
What if ... the purchase choices for full-frame Canon/Nikon are fairly obvious (easy) and those pieces of equipment are fairly easy to use to achieve a moderately competent result in the professional sphere without too much specialist knowledge or higher levels of skill.
What if ... everything else is just a bit less easy? - ergo : the moderate majority use the logical choices.
Well, some things *are* easier to achieve w/ top level FF cameras. And some things are nearly impossible to do well with lower spec cameras (FF or not).
But I wouldn't call it "the logical choice." What matters is you choose something than works for you and allows you to consistently, reliably, and efficiently achieve the required results. Choosing gear that makes it "less easy" is a pretty dumb move for a professional.

I have top level FF gear, but I only need it for maybe 10% of what I shoot. If I didn't shoot that 10% I would probably use lesser gear. (In fact, I do, a Fuji x20 and a Nikon 1 V2 kit)
 
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This may come as a big surprise to most readers on here, but most of the 'brand ambassadors' ( I hate that label) that I know are just like you and me - down to earth decent people. Not Demi- gods just really good photographers and decent people prepared to help other photographers. Shocking concept I know but pragmatic and truthful.
 
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mike
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to be honest people listen to lyndsay because

a) she's an established pro with a credible body of work, and

b) despite this she doesnt come over as a know all (she's also a really nice person)

this isnt really comparable with someone who comes over as the big I am stating opinions as fact with nothing to back them up and hiding behind flacid excuses as to why. As to the website - as to there being nothing to criticize on your site ... well suffice to say that isnt remotely true , if you want a site critique ask for one in a seperate thread, but be aware that it could go on for several pages
She also uses her real name, does not hide what she does and she is good at doing it @Pistnbroke i.e. talks the talk but more importantly walks the walk and without making a show of it - having met her I can say that she is the same in real life as she is here, hence why I would listen to what she says
 

big soft moose

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indeed - although using the real name isnt really that important - you could say much the same of Hugh (boyfalldown) or Andy (ASphotographymk) or Mark (demilion) and indeed a raft of others ... imo theres not really a problem with using a screen name , the problem is in certain members pretending to be something they arent (regardless of whether they do that under their own name or a pseudonym)
 
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indeed - although using the real name isnt really that important - you could say much the same of Hugh (boyfalldown) or Andy (ASphotographymk) or Mark (demilion) and indeed a raft of others ... imo theres not really a problem with using a screen name , the problem is in certain members pretending to be something they arent (regardless of whether they do that under their own name or a pseudonym)
'Tis true, despite the website I'm actually a cheesemaker,

You can snigger all you like, I'll inherit the earth
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David
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You know... all this is silly. Are some pros being paid for their opinion? No one actually knows. Some undoubtedly are... it's human nature for some people to shove some of your principles under the carpet in return for some cash. Then again, some undoubtedly are not doing that, because some people value their principles too highly.

You'll never know... which makes the whole endeavour utterly pointless so far as any thinking person is concerned.


Would anyone just rush out and buy a Fuji camera just because Zach Arias uses one any way? Really?


Just use what works for you. If you have a need for a certain piece of gear, you'll know it... you'll not need to ask or be told by a professional.
 
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