Getting fed up with ... everything ?! Help Needed



Raynox + Tamron 16-300 Test Shot (2) by Mike Smith, on Flickr

Lighting needs work obviously (just naked pop up flash) but this looks a lot more promising to me. Technique as follows:

- manual focus with focus distance set to around a meter (any closer and the flash is impeded by the lens)
- above was at iso100, 1/200, f20 and 270mm (which gave around 2x mag I think with the Raynox 150)
- move in slowly until subject is in focus (lens focus confirm bleeps)
- and fire!

Issue before I think was that I was relying on autofocus and probably a greater working distance which made it harder to get it accurate - so a lack of technique rather than any problem with the equipment :)

Need to work out lighting next - I'd really like to stick with the popup flash or maybe something to give a bit more height, any suggestions gratefully received as my MT24-ex will not work with the front mounted Raynox...
 
Looking good.

dibbly dobbler said:
Need to work out lighting next - I'd really like to stick with the popup flash or maybe something to give a bit more height, any suggestions gratefully received as my MT24-ex will not work with the front mounted Raynox...
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You might want to search for "Velcro" on this page and look at the "snoot" that Mark Berkery uses on his on board flash.
 
Another experiment tonight - this time with the 24-105. Shot at around f16, iso100, 1/200 and 105mm. Not that much magnification so probably prefer the Tamron 16-300.

There's not a huge amount of detail in the eyes (in comparison to what I would expect with the MPE) but I wonder if the harsh light from the (as yet undiffused) pop up flash is burning out the finer detail - any thoughts gents ?

The below has had a bit of sharpening and about 50% of the image cropped away :)


Raynox150 on 24-105 by Mike Smith, on Flickr
 
dibbly dobbler said:
Another experiment tonight - this time with the 24-105. Shot at around f16, iso100, 1/200 and 105mm. Not that much magnification so probably prefer the Tamron 16-300.

There's not a huge amount of detail in the eyes (in comparison to what I would expect with the MPE) but I wonder if the harsh light from the (as yet undiffused) pop up flash is burning out the finer detail - any thoughts gents ?
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Hmmm... I'm afraid I don't know. Keep experimenting though - that may give you some clues.

dibbly dobbler said:
Oh and I have ordered one of these!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160960562012
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Can't make out how that works. I'll be interested to see the results with it.
 
Couple of interesting revelations tonight:

1. Folded a bit if kitchen roll over the pop-up flash (held on by an elastic band!) instead of the MT24-ex and it worked very nicely! I could barely tell any difference between this and the £600 flash. Hmm...
2. I discovered focusing with the live view screen! Something of an embarrassment but I have never tried this before and again it worked very well (special when 'zoomed in')

I tried some shots with the Raynox 150 and the Tamron 16-300 combination - best effort as below

Raynox150 and Tamron 16-300 by Mike Smith, on Flickr

Best effort with the MPE as below:


Common Blue Damselfly by Mike Smith, on Flickr

Interesting thing was that the Raynox 150 + Tamron combination is not actually giving much magnification - less than the minimum on the MPE even at 300mm. Didn't expect that.

The MPE is still the clear winner for now - with a more flexible flash setup (rather than the Mt24ex) and using live view to focus it actually seemed rather easy to use.

I might get the more powerful Raynox and give it a try to see if I can get a bit more magnification - anybody think it would be worth it? Or do I just stick with the MPE....
 
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dibbly dobbler said:
The MPE is still the clear winner for now - with a more flexible flash setup (rather than the Mt24ex) and using live view to focus it actually seemed rather easy to use.

I might get the more powerful Raynox and give it a try to see if I can get a bit more magnification - anybody think it would be worth it? Or do I just stick with the MPE....
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As the MPE is giving better results and you are now finding it quite easy to use, why not stick with it? What would/might be the advantage of the Raynox 250?
 
I suspect you need to work on a light weight diffusion setup for the MT-24ex - the twin lights should be better than the single light source for getting light angles and lifting shadows below etc.

If you don't want it can you post it to me as mine is still stuck at Canon for repair :(:D

Love the head shot of the damselfly.(y)
 
GardenersHelper said:
As the MPE is giving better results and you are now finding it quite easy to use, why not stick with it? What would/might be the advantage of the Raynox 250?
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Hi Nick - yes your point is a valid one! My primary concern was (and is) to get a more portable/lightweight/simpler setup but which still gives great results. In an ideal world I would like to be able to (for example) go for a stroll, take a few general shots then stick the Raynox on (and a small portable diffuser on the pop-up flash) and do some macro. A dream perhaps but there's no great financial outlay involved so worth a try :)

Having said that it's becoming more likely now that I will stick with the MPE and maybe have a Raynox as a backup/walkabout solution :)
 
ChrisA said:
I suspect you need to work on a light weight diffusion setup for the MT-24ex - the twin lights should be better than the single light source for getting light angles and lifting shadows below etc.

If you don't want it can you post it to me as mine is still stuck at Canon for repair :(:D

Love the head shot of the damselfly.(y)
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Thanks. I find the MT24 almost too powerful - I have some fancy bespoke diffusers (on top of StoFen) but still get some quite harsh light at times with specular highlights in the eyes of the bigger insects. The really top guys don't seem to get this! And it's not exactly easy to poke the thing into a bush... ;)
 
Right - had an outing with my 100D + MPE + new pop-up flash diffuser thingy (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160960562012)

The new diffuser worked pretty well actually but if anything stopped a bit too much light getting through - it was a cloudy evening and I ended up at about 1/200 + f9 + iso200 which left me short on dof. Hmm.

Also I had forgotten how little actually fits in the frame with the MPE on a crop body! I can barely fit a decent sized Bee in even at minimum mag - humph :(

Best shot as below (no cropping and at minimum mag on the MPE)


Bombus pratorum by Mike Smith, on Flickr

So where does that leave me?!

The original idea was to get a more lightweight and portable setup:

- Not quite nailed the diffusion on the pop-up flash but I think it's possible
- The Raynox 150 works ok on my Tamron 16-300 but IQ is not amazing and there's not enough magnification for me (also at 300mm the barrel extends so far it's getting in the way of the flash at shot working distance)
- The MPE is giving the best results so far but on a crop body is very restrictive in terms of the short working distance and the limitations of what will fit in a shot
- My full frame body (6D) would work better with the MPE in terms of fitting more in but has no pop-up flash!!

So.... Options are :

A) Give up and crack on with the MPE + 6D + MT24 and possibly fine tune the diffusion
B) Find some other lens to use on my 100D (60mm, 100mm etc ?) with the Raynox 150 + sort the diffusion on my pop-up flash
C) Try the Raynox 250 on my 16-300 ?
D) Any suggestions? Help ?!

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions :)
 
dibbly dobbler said:
So where does that leave me?!

The original idea was to get a more lightweight and portable setup:

- Not quite nailed the diffusion on the pop-up flash but I think it's possible
- The Raynox 150 works ok on my Tamron 16-300 but IQ is not amazing and there's not enough magnification for me (also at 300mm the barrel extends so far it's getting in the way of the flash at shot working distance)
- The MPE is giving the best results so far but on a crop body is very restrictive in terms of the short working distance and the limitations of what will fit in a shot
- My full frame body (6D) would work better with the MPE in terms of fitting more in but has no pop-up flash!!

So.... Options are :

A) Give up and crack on with the MPE + 6D + MT24 and possibly fine tune the diffusion
B) Find some other lens to use on my 100D (60mm, 100mm etc ?) with the Raynox 150 + sort the diffusion on my pop-up flash
C) Try the Raynox 250 on my 16-300 ?
D) Any suggestions? Help ?!
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C) Try the Raynox 250 on my 16-300 ? Won't the extension of the barrel be just as much of a problem in terms of blocking light? And if the IQ isn't as good as you want with the Raynox 150 I don't think it will be any better with the 250.

B) Find some other lens to use on my 100D (60mm, 100mm etc ?) with the Raynox 150 + sort the diffusion on my pop-up flash. It looks to me like a 90, 100 or 105 macro, giving up to 1:1, may be more suitable for what you want to do. And you could add a Raynox to take you further. For example, the Raynox 150 on my Sigma 105 macro takes it to almost 2:1 (scene width around 13mm). The Raynox 250 doesn't take it much further, just a little beyond 2:1 (scene width around 10.5mm).

However, it may not be light. For example the Canon 100L weighs 625g versus the MPE-65 710g. My Sigma 105 Macro is 725g. Other lenses in this category may be a bit lighter, especially if they don't have IS, but you'd have to research that.

One lighter option, on your crop body, would be the Canon EF-S 60mm macro, 335g. (f/2.8 to f/32). It would have shorter working distances of course, but you are used to that from the MPE so perhaps that wouldn't be too bad. You could put a Raynox on the front of that too (it has a 52mm filter thread).

There is still a flash issue though, with any of these 1:1 lenses. Around 1:1 the subject will be quite close to the camera, and the lens won't extend, so flash should work ok. However, if you want to do lower magnification stuff the distance to the subject will obviously become greater and getting enough light on to the subject may become problematic. But if you are mostly around 2:1 to 1:2 then I imagine that would be ok.

One thing you could consider, whatever approach you try, is to use the Venus KX800 twin flash, (450g, don't know if this includes batteries, versus 585g for the MT24EX excluding batteries) so you could position the flash units wherever you want them.

- My full frame body (6D) would work better with the MPE in terms of fitting more in but has no pop-up flash!! Use the MT24EX? Probably the heaviest option, but if you are considering using your crop body with the MT24EX then how much heavier would the 6D + MT24EX be?

Or you could think about getting radical. I have light rigs (with fast and accurate AF at all but the most extreme magnifications), MFT and bridge with achromats, but I imagine you wouldn't want to go there, so I won't pursue that. :)
 
Thanks Nick! You are a Gent and very patient one at that!

I think I've been a prat and not using the Raynox correctly - a bigger working distance gives more mag *and* gets rid of the issue of the barrel getting in the way of the flash!

Have put a little question on your thread but the gist of it is how to use the thing correctly...

The dream lives on! :)
 
I'm on Nikon so I'm jealous of everyone who has a MPE! I originally tried the raynox 250 on a 70-300 before moving to a tamron 90mm. Results weren't great with the 250 raynox on the zoom or the Tamron 90 and I originally put it down to the raynox. After getting frustrated with the 90mm I decided to exchange the lens for the 60mm f2 which i had read some good reviews for. The 60mm is by far a better lens IMO and gives me good results up to nearly 4:1 when I add full tubes and the raynox. At the moment I'm using the 60mm on 32mm tubes which gives me roughly 1:7 through to 1.75:1. I then carry the raynox in my pocket which I can clip on quickly for any smaller subjects.

I find this set up the most flexible I have used, the 60mm gives a more manageable working distance than the 90mm especially with the raynox added. Also the quality of image right up to F16 on the 60mm beats the 90mm hands down.
 
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Neil Burnell said:
I'm on Nikon so I'm jealous of everyone who has a MPE! I originally tried the raynox 250 on a 70-300 before moving to a tamron 90mm. Results weren't great with the 250 raynox on the zoom or the Tamron 90 and I originally put it down to the raynox. After getting frustrated with the 90mm I decided to exchange the lens for the 60mm f2 which i had read some good reviews for. The 60mm is by far a better lens IMO and gives me good results up to nearly 4:1 when I add full tubes and the raynox. At the moment I'm using the 60mm on 32mm tubes which gives me roughly 1:7 through to 1.75:1. I then carry the raynox in my pocket which I can clip on quickly for any smaller subjects.

I find this set up the most flexible I have used, the 60mm gives a more manageable working distance than the 90mm especially with the raynox added. Also the quality of image right up to F16 on the 60mm beats the 90mm hands down.
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Thanks Neil! Some amazing work on your site - bravo :)

The 60mm F2 - is that a Tamron or some other make? Funnily enough my first macro lens was a Canon 60mm - I then 'upgraded' to a 100mm a 100L then the MPE-65 - so maybe I need to go back to where I started!

Can I just also ask - what lighting setup do you have? There's a lovely soft light in your pics which I have never been able to achieve despite a rather expensive twin light flash with diffusers etc ...
 
dibbly dobbler said:
Thanks Neil! Some amazing work on your site - bravo :)

The 60mm F2 - is that a Tamron or some other make? Funnily enough my first macro lens was a Canon 60mm - I then 'upgraded' to a 100mm a 100L then the MPE-65 - so maybe I need to go back to where I started!

Can I just also ask - what lighting setup do you have? There's a lovely soft light in your pics which I have never been able to achieve despite a rather expensive twin light flash with diffusers etc ...
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Thanks Mike yes its the Tamron 60 F2, a very well priced lens but only works on crop sensors I believe. The lighting is dull off camera wired and mounted on a bracket, I use one Nikon SB400 and one Meike 300, both nice and light and seems to give nice light.
 
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