Getting shutter speed down for off camera flash outdoor?

wonderer

wonderer

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Soooo I am scratching my head a bit. My parents want to get some nice group shots of my family when they are all together in a few days down on the beach. Ok cool. I really want a nice depth of field so want to use my nifty fifty at 1.8 and I will be using aperture priority.So here is the problem.

At 50 mm I will need to be quite a way away from the group to get them all in, say at least 12-15 feet. I have a single sb-700 which even on full on a bright day wont really do much for the shadows from 15 feet will it? Outdoors (its meant to be overcast that day but still bright) at that aperture the shutter speed wants to go to 2000+ at iso 100. So how do I get the shutter speed down to the 250 needed to have the flash off camera and closer to the group? What would be my best options here? I know the obvious thing would be to adjust aperture but is there another way to allow me to shoot wide open? I have a pixel Soldier wireless trigger which syncs at 250 max

Thanks in advance
 
No problem. Quite simple then tbh. Set the sync speed to one of the FP modes and it will fire at any shutter speed.

You will need to set the commander mode up in the camera and use the pop up flash to trigger it. Set the pop up so it isn't part of the exposure but it may help for a little flash. Not sure how far the range is when using the commander mode outdoors and the camera/flash needs to be in the line of sight of each other.

YouTube it for a few ideas. Joe McNally is renowned for using it.

Any more questions then fire away (no pun intended) :)
 
What David said, but remember to point the front of the flashgun back to the camera to receive the signal, and don't worry about the pop up disturbing your lighting at those distances (it won't have a cat in hell's chance)
 
You guys are awesome, thanks for the help. Will head over to youtube now then as commander mode is something I have not experimented with yet.
 
Sorry, I have another quick question. When off camera using Commander would the speedlight need to be in Manual mode? I presume TTL does not work using commander mode?
 
Suggest you dummy this up before the event. There are a number of pitfalls.

HSS/FP sync is the obvious answer, but it uses a lot of power, reducing range substantially. If you're wanting to over-power the daylight and darken the background, you won't have a chance, but for a bit of subtle fill-in to lighten the shadows and put a sparkle in the eyes, you need a lot less power and it usually looks great. The alternative is to use say a 2 or 3 stops ND filter that will pull the whole exposure level down so you can use normal x-sync speed.

Flash exposure is very sensitive to distance, so make sure all subjects are the same distance from it. Along the same lines, you may be surprised how little depth of field you get at f/1.8, so all subjects must be lined up square to the camera and that's not going to be a very attractive grouping. Unless the shallow DoF look is essential, consider dropping that idea - makes the whole thing much easier.

Does the pop-up in commander mode work for HSS/FP sync with Nikon? It doesn't with Canon. If it does function, light-code remote triggering can be unreliable in bright daylight, especially at distance. Ensure line of sight from camera to flash and keep them as close as possible.

Edit: auto-TTL works in remote commander mode, but for something like this most would opt for full manual anyway. One less variable to worry about.

Edit-2: for fill-in flash, on-camera flash actually works well. For fill-in, on-axis flash looks best and overcomes a lot of potential problems here - just don't over-do it. The best result will appear like no flash has been used to most people, but it'll look great (y)
 
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HoppyUK said:
Suggest you dummy this up before the event. There are a number of pitfalls.

HSS/FP sync is the obvious answer, but it uses a lot of power, reducing range substantially. If you're wanting to over-power the daylight and darken the background, you won't have a chance, but for a bit of subtle fill-in to lighten the shadows and put a sparkle in the eyes, you need a lot less power and it usually looks great. The alternative is to use say a 2 or 3 stops ND filter that will pull the whole exposure level down so you can use normal x-sync speed.

Flash exposure is very sensitive to distance, so make sure all subjects are the same distance from it. Along the same lines, you may be surprised how little depth of field you get at f/1.8, so all subjects must be lined up square to the camera and that's not going to be a very attractive grouping. Unless the shallow DoF look is essential, consider dropping that idea - makes the whole thing much easier.

Does the pop-up in commander mode work for HSS/FP sync with Nikon? It doesn't with Canon. If it does function, light-code remote triggering can be unreliable in bright daylight, especially at distance. Ensure line of sight from camera to flash and keep them as close as possible.

Edit: auto-TTL works in remote commander mode, but for something like this most would opt for full manual anyway. One less variable to worry about.

Edit-2: for fill-in flash, on-camera flash actually works well. For fill-in, on-axis flash looks best and overcomes a lot of potential problems here - just don't over-do it. The best result will appear like no flash has been used to most people, but it'll look great (y)
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Ok, thankyou. So when using commander mode and using the pop up to trigger a speedlight are there generally acknowledged limitations? Say the speedlight and and pop up were directly visible to each other what kind of distances can I expect between the two? Do outdoor conditions affect its reliability, sunlight, wind etc?
 
wonderer said:
Ok, thankyou. So when using commander mode and using the pop up to trigger a speedlight are there generally acknowledged limitations? Say the speedlight and and pop up were directly visible to each other what kind of distances can I expect between the two? Do outdoor conditions affect its reliability, sunlight, wind etc?
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As the triggering is optical, it's obviously limited by conditions, in a small room in dim light, the triggering signal can bounce off walls and still be effective. Outside fighting bright daylight I wouldn't have a lot of faith. Although, as above Jow McNally swears by the system (although Nikon do pay him for that opinion). If you absolutely need this to work, get some proper radio triggers.
 
Depends how you're lighting the group. Remember that if it's a large(r) group then the light fall off could be an issue... Place your subjects wisely... F1.8 could then become an issue as the dof may be tiny at the distance you plan on having the camera at from them.

The pop up will trigger the flash and it can still do TTL... You need to be in remote mode i think with the flash.

Simple answer would be to place your group in a better place which doesn't need lighting to balance the ambience. In fact, why are you feeling the need to use a flash anyway? Is it a specific look you're trying to emulate?
 
Thank you all for your replies. All been taken on board and will now get the mrs and the kids to have a test run. :ty:
 
minnnt said:
... In fact, why are you feeling the need to use a flash anyway? Is it a specific look you're trying to emulate?
Click to expand...

I considered asking this but thought 'none of my business' - one of my self perceived faults is answering a question with a question :(. But it does seem like creating problems for the sake of it. I look at picture taking as a problem solving exercise, and this scenario strikes me as arse about face.
 
wonderer said:
Sorry, I have another quick question. When off camera using Commander would the speedlight need to be in Manual mode? I presume TTL does not work using commander mode?
Click to expand...


TTL works great in commander mode. if commander mode works in bright light is another question
 
Phil V said:
I considered asking this but thought 'none of my business' - one of my self perceived faults is answering a question with a question :(. But it does seem like creating problems for the sake of it. I look at picture taking as a problem solving exercise, and this scenario strikes me as arse about face.
Click to expand...

Well the flash will be purely for fill purposes, certainly not as a main source. Just want a bit of catchlight and to lift the shadows.
 
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