Given a chance

[big dave hull]

How difficult can it be to be regarded as a good photographer, and good enough that an agency or publisher etc wants to use your work.

im trying to spend alot of time shooting motorsport etc and getting a more creative outlook on the images i take, its something id like to do as a career but find im missing something somewhere

any ideas on what the right directions could be?

sending images to gain interest
pestering with emails
or maybe im not that good

thanks

 

[KIPAX]

I know why you postd in here.. But I feel you will get more feedback in talk motorsport.. just a suggestion

 

[Marc]

I know why you postd in here.. But I feel you will get more feedback in talk motorsport.. just a suggestion

Agreed so I've moved it

 

[andrewc]

Maybe your pictures are too creative for the publisher. Give them what they want, not what you think they should want.

Don't pester too much.

Publishers have a long list of established snappers and backup snappers, and a queue of people wanting to shoot for them.

 

[danphillips]

Do you have a website that we could see some pictures on?

I think it's a case of finding out who the picture editor is, ringing them in advance of an event asking if they want it covered and linking them to your work.

Obviously competition is stiff but there's no reason that why you couldn't get published. Also remember that many live events might be well catered for but doing say portraits of a driver, a team, or a particular car in a posed setting ( as opposed to on the track) is something that magazines will more likely need to have specially commissioned

 

[andrewc]

A magazine such as Autosport will have sorted out photographer and journalist for each event they cover by early March covering every meeting from the opening one of the year until the Mallory Park Plum Pudding meeting on Boxing Day.

So for general shots they're covered. However if you catch something that is unique and very newsworthy, then I would suggest sending it in, but you need to move quickly or its no longer newsworthy.

 

[pete.rush]

The problem is, its too competitive, there are so many motorsport Togs out there on both sides of the fence all trying to get their images recognised, the markets flooded, you have to have another angle to pure photography to try and make waves. Best advice is do something like Matt S, get in at the botton on your local track at car meets, track days and local racing events and work your way up to bigger events, but you'll be one of many. For motorsport nowadays its media + images, for teams, riders, events, so a story and images especially for motorsport.

But as previous comments have requested, some images of your work would be a start

 

[Gary]

The problem is, its too competitive, there are so many motorsport Togs out there on both sides of the fence all trying to get their images recognised, the markets flooded, you have to have another angle to pure photography to try and make waves. Best advice is do something like Matt S, get in at the botton on your local track at car meets, track days and local racing events and work your way up to bigger events, but you'll be one of many. For motorsport nowadays its media + images, for teams, riders, events, so a story and images especially for motorsport.

But as previous comments have requested, some images of your work would be a start

as pete said

you've got to realise there is tiny demand for motorsport photography and a massive over supply.

be savvy, be clever... enter the MSA Young Motorsport photographer of the year competition.

 

[big dave hull]

as pete said

you've got to realise there is tiny demand for motorsport photography and a massive over supply.

be savvy, be clever... enter the MSA Young Motorsport photographer of the year competition.

young?? im 28 lol its a good idea to be recognised though with any work i can add

 

[Gary]

Ahh we'll you are too old for that comp then. You are probably passed it

 

[danphillips]

One other thing to mention about trying to break into a niche, is well, see what other people are doing. Don't copy it, but just have a look at the trends, the photographers' names and also the agencies. Take this guy for example:

http://domromney.com/blog/

I don't know him but seen him about on twitter. Basically he quit a paper in Lincolnshire to follow his passion for Motorsport photography. His family have been at race meets all his life and he knows the sport inside out. And he also knows photography inside out. The pictures really speak for themselves.

 

[andrewc]

Dom (Zilly) won the MSA photography competition twice.

 

[big dave hull]

just had a look at his page, some very outstanding images there and can see why hes got the award twice

im quite lucky as i follow quite alot of rallying and have a friend who has an awful lot of contacts in the sport, so maybe i can open some doors from that angle and also do you guys think its alot of been in the right place at the right time etc?

 

[danphillips]

I think it's about making your own luck. Working hard, using and growing your contacts. But put a picture up first!

 

[big dave hull]

here you go dan, a piece of what i can do

 

[Gary]

Just make sure you are realistic about your chances.

Might sound strange, but it's a bit like wanting to be a pop star. Everyone wants to do it and hardly anyone succeeds. Only difference is that if you do succeed you still earn bugger all.

 

[danphillips]

I'm sure the driver would be quite pleased with that picture. I'm not sure of the conventions on Motorsport, rear views seem to be acceptable, but I'd prefer a pic of the front of the car. If you have a Flickr or some other website I'd happily have a look.

The key is to start small and work up, you have the tools to do that, both in cameras and in contacts. As above posters have said magazines are flooded with pictures they can't use and plan coverage well in advance. So essentially you need more experience, so make yourself a known face at these Motorsport meets, make friends with teams.

Also bear in mind that magazines aren't what they used to be. The best paid work is not necessarily being hired to cover an event or a portrait for a publication. In fact in newspapers at least it's pretty poorly paid when stacked against working for a PR agency or direct for a company.

If I take another sport example, I know a rugby specialist photographer whose main work is shooting for the sponsors, not for any publication. Sure he wires the images out after the games but he by no means depends on their largely nominal reproduction fees. They're the same pictures, but the fee is many times more.

Finally if you want to give Motorsport a go, remember it's more than race meets. Location based car 'portrait' photography and other more corporate imagery is definitely a skill you need to show.

 

[danphillips]

Just make sure you are realistic about your chances.

Might sound strange, but it's a bit like wanting to be a pop star. Everyone wants to do it and hardly anyone succeeds. Only difference is that if you do succeed you still earn bugger all.

This!

Work hard, give it a go, but make sure you can still shoot a wedding or a portrait. It may be that other more general photography will fund your Motorsport habit.

 

[Phil V]

here you go dan, a piece of what i can do

Dave - it's a saleable enough picture but it's not what I expected from 'more creative outlook', it looks like a fairly standard rally photo, I've got a hard drive full of similar and I've never made a penny from motorsport photography.

But success is about persistence and hard work, there's no reason you can't build up contacts and make a go of it.

 

[big dave hull]

Dave - it's a saleable enough picture but it's not what I expected from 'more creative outlook', it looks like a fairly standard rally photo, I've got a hard drive full of similar and I've never made a penny from motorsport photography.

But success is about persistence and hard work, there's no reason you can't build up contacts and make a go of it.

Yeh i see what you mean, obviously as i do alot more id like to think i can progress onto bettet images

Well at least ive got a bit of time till next seasons racing to make a valid effort of getting my bame about, and like you say pesistance will pay off

 

[Phil V]

There's a bit of awesome work out there, but to be honest, the guys that make money (small amounts) from Rallying aren't producing anything stunning.

The guys doing the arty stuff are generally not liked by the Rally community, who are a fairly conservative bunch.

No-one else will do it some inspiration

 

[desantnik]

it's a bit like wanting to be a pop star. Everyone wants to do it and hardly anyone succeeds. Only difference is that if you do succeed you still earn bugger all.

LOL so true!

Mick Jagger: So, like Mr. Record Company, you wanna like grove with our latest tunes man?

Record Company: Yes Mr Jagger, we think your work has merit but you have to understand we don't have any money for artists -but we will put your name on the CD.

Mick Jagger: Well thats like seriously uncool man.

Record Company: If you don't like it, I'll make a CD from Madonna or Phil Colins instead, no problem, my in tray is brimming with top rock acts one of whom will work for nothing.

Mick Jagger: Oh ok

Record Company: Must go now, gotta go pick up my new Lear jet.

 

[Gary]

LOL so true!

Mick Jagger: So, like Mr. Record Company, you wanna like grove with our latest tunes man?

Record Company: Yes Mr Jagger, we think your work has merit but you have to understand we don't have any money for artists -but we will put your name on the CD.

Mick Jagger: Well thats like seriously uncool man.

Record Company: If you don't like it, I'll make a CD from Madonna or Phil Colins instead, no problem, my in tray is brimming with top rock acts one of whom will work for nothing.

Mick Jagger: Oh ok

Record Company: Must go now, gotta go pick up my new Lear jet.

LOL spot on

someone i know said they cant afford photos, but they are happy to give some credit on their website.. and then drove off in a zonda lol

 

[desantnik]

I'm liking the way this forum has turned "Lear jet" into a link to ebay to allow me to search for one on there... just gotta sell a few more photos before heading off to buy one...

 

[big dave hull]

Keep to the topic please guys! Even tho a zonda sounds pretty nice ita going to be a long time coming

 

[Phil V]

Keep to the topic please guys! Even tho a zonda sounds pretty nice ita going to be a long time coming

Dave - sadly Gary's post is exactly on-topic. The Zonda aside, many potential customers no longer have a budget for photography because there's a queue of morons queueing up to give them pictures for nothing. If you're trying to make it in an industry, knowing how difficult that's becoming is better advice than - 'you've just got to be good enough and there's plenty of customers' (which is also true of course - and also extremely naive).

 

[dunganick]

You've got to be good enough to sell your services. Photography comes second or maybe even further down the list.

 

[desantnik]

Yup, you wanna sell stuff, you need to be a salesman - a good one at that when you are selling into a market filled with zero cost alternatives.

Concentrate on identifying the markets and possible avenues first, worry about the photography later if you ever manage to find the way forward...

Alternatively, just spend your weekends at racing, take some photos and enjoy it.

 

[big dave hull]

Dave - sadly Gary's post is exactly on-topic. The Zonda aside, many potential customers no longer have a budget for photography because there's a queue of morons queueing up to give them pictures for nothing. If you're trying to make it in an industry, knowing how difficult that's becoming is better advice than - 'you've just got to be good enough and there's plenty of customers' (which is also true of course - and also extremely naive).

Ah sorry yeh i see!, well like u say maybe spending time at tracks and rallys etc will get word around and i can always hope that something will pay off

Il still have ti work 2 jobs like i do :-(

 

[Gary]

And going on a business or marketing course would help too. Much more than learning the camera skills.

In an over saturated market you need to produce something that people want and is better than your competitors. That doesn't mean good photography, that means good service.

 

[desantnik]

Ah sorry yeh i see!, well like u say maybe spending time at tracks and rallys etc will get word around and i can always hope that something will pay off

Il still have ti work 2 jobs like i do :-(

And if you start this one, that will make three!

 

[big dave hull]

And going on a business or marketing course would help too. Much more than learning the camera skills.

In an over saturated market you need to produce something that people want and is better than your competitors. That doesn't mean good photography, that means good service.

What can be classed as a better service?

Turn around on images?
Price?

Like you say theres always someone willing to undercut you or just give away for free so which ever way you head its going to be a struggle to come close in the current climate

 

[andrewc]

Some of the series I work with want a photo to put on their website within 30 mins of a session ending.

Start at bottom and work your way up - if you've got contacts in the rally world, use them to your advantage.

 

[zilly]

How difficult can it be to be regarded as a good photographer, and good enough that an agency or publisher etc wants to use your work.

im trying to spend alot of time shooting motorsport etc and getting a more creative outlook on the images i take, its something id like to do as a career but find im missing something somewhere

any ideas on what the right directions could be?

sending images to gain interest
pestering with emails
or maybe im not that good

thanks

Its easy to be regarded as a good photographer my mum has always regarded me as a great photographer, however you need to be trusted you need your clients to be able to see that your a safe pair of hands and thats the big thing unless your darren heath being uber creative isn't priority number one clients need to know that you can nail the bread and butter stuff 100% of the time, being able to prove that is hard and its something that can take time.

Lots of different ways you can go about climbing the ladder, non of them quick or easy, and tbh few of them very profitable.

One other thing to mention about trying to break into a niche, is well, see what other people are doing. Don't copy it, but just have a look at the trends, the photographers' names and also the agencies. Take this guy for example:

http://domromney.com/blog/

I don't know him but seen him about on twitter. Basically he quit a paper in Lincolnshire to follow his passion for Motorsport photography. His family have been at race meets all his life and he knows the sport inside out. And he also knows photography inside out. The pictures really speak for themselves.

Thanks for the kind words Dan

here you go dan, a piece of what i can do

You feel this is the absolute best image you've ever taken?

And going on a business or marketing course would help too. Much more than learning the camera skills.

In an over saturated market you need to produce something that people want and is better than your competitors. That doesn't mean good photography, that means good service.

Couldn't agree more my life is shooting 40% marketing 60%

What can be classed as a better service?

Turn around on images?
Price?

Like you say theres always someone willing to undercut you or just give away for free so which ever way you head its going to be a struggle to come close in the current climate

You can't compete on price. Photography is a priceless service if its not valued by the client, I have clients that get offers on a daily basis from 'photographers' offering to take pictures for half of what I charge, but they still hire me, why, not because I'm cheap but because they know the quality and service that they are going to get.

My 2 cents would be to start at the bottom, do some research see which teams are local to you speak to the local papers see if they would be interested in some images from there racing , that gets your foot in the door and you can go from there

 

[big dave hull]

Its easy to be regarded as a good photographer my mum has always regarded me as a great photographer, however you need to be trusted you need your clients to be able to see that your a safe pair of hands and thats the big thing unless your darren heath being uber creative isn't priority number one clients need to know that you can nail the bread and butter stuff 100% of the time, being able to prove that is hard and its something that can take time.

Lots of different ways you can go about climbing the ladder, non of them quick or easy, and tbh few of them very profitable.




Thanks for the kind words Dan



You feel this is the absolute best image you've ever taken?



Couldn't agree more my life is shooting 40% marketing 60%



You can't compete on price. Photography is a priceless service if its not valued by the client, I have clients that get offers on a daily basis from 'photographers' offering to take pictures for half of what I charge, but they still hire me, why, not because I'm cheap but because they know the quality and service that they are going to get.

My 2 cents would be to start at the bottom, do some research see which teams are local to you speak to the local papers see if they would be interested in some images from there racing , that gets your foot in the door and you can go from there

thanks for that one, but no it not the best image ive taken its just for an idea, everyones perception on what is the best work is completely different from person to person, u may feel an image that is not very good could be loved by a client but u dont know unless its shown