Godox AD600PRO

Interesting, for the first time ever I’m in the ‘hope it drives a S/h price drop of the previous model’ club.
 
Nice Work. Seems its gone from their websitet.
 
Interesting, I wonder what they will cost?

Though I'm happy with the current Ad600 for my use.
 
Big debate is that it now only does about 360 full power pops. Well if the flash is 0.7 stops better then you actually have about 600 pops at the same power as with the standard AD600 and Profoto only has about 220 pops.

This to me addresses a lot of the failings of the original AD600 that people complained about but I bet there will still be moaners.
 
mike weeks said:
Big debate is that it now only does about 360 full power pops. Well if the flash is 0.7 stops better then you actually have about 600 pops at the same power as with the standard AD600 and Profoto only has about 220 pops.

This to me addresses a lot of the failings of the original AD600 that people complained about but I bet there will still be moaners.
Click to expand...
All looks good to me, as a new buyer it seems to do plenty, I'm not sure I'd need to upgrade to one, but I can already feel my bank card calling!! :)
 
Good catch Mike (y) I want one (four would be nice) and glad I waited for the Mk2.

Looks very impressive, they've fixed everything - optimised the flash tube positioning, dramatically cut recharge times, quadrupled modelling LED brightness, added a stepless tilt lock. Now even more similar to the Profoto B1X in terms of battery capacity, bright LED, and dual colour/speed flash modes. Optional grab-handle too. Godox should also have fixed any other minor problems that we never get to hear about but are often found in Mk1 products, and in the same vein it's probably a good thing that they've not pushed the envelope with a power hike.

They've kept the excellent detachable/remote head option (presumably a 1200Ws option to follow?). I doubt that the reduced battery capacity will matter too much, and it looks like you can still recharge the battery while working, when you have mains power to hand. The head protector-cum-reflector is a good addition, very like the Bowens XMT (made by Godox) as is the flash tube shape, and Godox has also added a little diffuser panel. I would expect useful improvements there, making the modelling LED a closer match to flash illumination, better filling of softboxes, and (just a hunch) maybe an increase in HSS brightness.
 
Thinking out loud, with reliability in mind, I wonder about that new recharge time - 0.9 down from 2.5secs. That's a huge improvement, great news but bordering on too good to be true - way faster than anything similar, and arguably faster than it needs to be. The battery runs at a claimed 28.8v, up from 11.1v, and that compares to the Profoto B1X at 14.4v and a claimed 1.9secs recharge time.

Profoto had a recall on the first batch of B1X batteries, and there must be a downside to Godox ramping up performance like that - increased liability to overheating for a start. A 1.5secs recharge time would still be very competitive.
 
HoppyUK said:
Thinking out loud, with reliability in mind, I wonder about that new recharge time - 0.9 down from 2.5secs. That's a huge improvement, great news but bordering on too good to be true - way faster than anything similar, and arguably faster than it needs to be. The battery runs at a claimed 28.8v, up from 11.1v, and that compares to the Profoto B1X at 14.4v and a claimed 1.9secs recharge time.

Profoto had a recall on the first batch of B1X batteries, and there must be a downside to Godox ramping up performance like that - increased liability to overheating for a start. A 1.5secs recharge time would still be very competitive.
Click to expand...

Maybe it’s tested by the same dept that do car mileage economy figures or the emissions guy from VW......[emoji23]
 
HoppyUK said:
Thinking out loud, with reliability in mind, I wonder about that new recharge time - 0.9 down from 2.5secs. That's a huge improvement, great news but bordering on too good to be true - way faster than anything similar, and arguably faster than it needs to be. The battery runs at a claimed 28.8v, up from 11.1v, and that compares to the Profoto B1X at 14.4v and a claimed 1.9secs recharge time.

Profoto had a recall on the first batch of B1X batteries, and there must be a downside to Godox ramping up performance like that - increased liability to overheating for a start. A 1.5secs recharge time would still be very competitive.
Click to expand...

So instead of matching specs they are trying to beat, 1/16 power at 10 frames second, sounds good to me

Mike
 
Canon brook said:
Maybe it’s tested by the same dept that do car mileage economy figures or the emissions guy from VW......[emoji23]
Click to expand...

Well it wouldn't be the first time some claimed specifications haven't lived up to reality. One very common trick is for the flash-ready beeper to sound when only at 70-80% charge in the confident expectation that nobody will actually test it properly to 100%. I've found Godox to be generally pretty honest but here are a couple from my latest bunch of tests: Profoto claimed 1.9, actual 2.2secs; Phottix claimed 2.0, actual 3.0secs.

The mains powered Godox QT-600 II with the same IGBT-regulated power also has a claimed recharge time of 0.9 secs, so we may be in luck :)
 
Last edited:
HoppyUK said:
I've found Godox to be generally pretty honest but here are a couple from my latest bunch of tests: Profoto claimed 1.9, actual 2.2secs; Phottix claimed 2.0, actual 3.0secs.

The mains powered Godox QT-600 II with the same IGBT-regulated power also has a claimed recharge time of 0.9 secs, so we may be in luck :)
Click to expand...

When I tested t0.1 on the Sekonic 858 I found the Godox lights to be as good as if not better than quoted figure so I believe them.

Mike
 
HoppyUK said:
The head protector-cum-reflector is a good addition, very like the Bowens XMT (made by Godox) as is the flash tube shape, and Godox has also added a little diffuser panel.
Click to expand...

I was wondering what they were going to do with all those parts left over from the Generation X kit...

Not sure I like the frosted diffuser glass dome thing, wouldn't it be better if the whole thing was frosted or not at all?
 
simonbarker said:
I was wondering what they were going to do with all those parts left over from the Generation X kit...

Not sure I like the frosted diffuser glass dome thing, wouldn't it be better if the whole thing was frosted or not at all?
Click to expand...

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt on that. They've obviously thought about it, and my guess is it'll work well - helping to fill a softbox right to the edges and reduce the hotspot that pretty much all softboxes have to some extent (even those that claim otherwise).

I'd guess though, that it's more to do with the substantially uprated modelling LED. Like most, the current LED produces a very hard light and with a softbox this projects a clear pattern of the inner-diffuser and it's elasticated fittings onto the front panel. The little frosted front should fix that.
 
simonbarker said:
I was wondering what they were going to do with all those parts left over from the Generation X kit...

Not sure I like the frosted diffuser glass dome thing, wouldn't it be better if the whole thing was frosted or not at all?
Click to expand...

Not sure where this idea came from as all photo gear is built in 1 area except Bowens who started in a totally different city which nobody could understand so to the best of my knowledge Godox did not make the Bowens gear, at least not in their main factory but happy to be corrected on that.

Mike
 
I wonder when it will hit UK dealers, I'm guessing around march time, then another couple of months for the real world reviews, which means I doubt I will get one till around June, I was looking at the version1 but happy to wait for this I think, I'm happy with my AD360 and AD200 at the moment, but this would be nice for the summer in bright sunlight
 
mike weeks said:
Not sure where this idea came from as all photo gear is built in 1 area except Bowens who started in a totally different city which nobody could understand so to the best of my knowledge Godox did not make the Bowens gear, at least not in their main factory but happy to be corrected on that.

Mike
Click to expand...

Who knows Mike. It's an open secret that the Bowens XMT was 'made by Godox' (whatever that means) and from my own testing the XMT and AD600 are effectively identical - same power exactly, same power range, same battery, same recharge times and pops per charge, same flash durations, same colour - all identical. Same trigger too. Just far too many coincidences for them not to be essentially the same unit underneath. And it makes perfect sense if you're Bowens.

Being cynical, I'd hazard a guess that a separate facility was set up by Bowens so they could claim it was made by them in their own factory in China, and it suited Godox to keep the operation at arms length so they'd not be responsible for redundances if it all went the shape of the pear. Which is exactly what happened.
 
mike weeks said:
Not sure where this idea came from as all photo gear is built in 1 area except Bowens who started in a totally different city which nobody could understand so to the best of my knowledge Godox did not make the Bowens gear, at least not in their main factory but happy to be corrected on that.
Click to expand...

Oh I didn't mean it that way, I was just mentioning it for the resemblance, I've not bothered to check if it's exactly the same or not. Broncolor had the idea before them both with their Litos heads anyway, hopefully this will put a stake through the heart of Profoto's stupid idea to force a reflector onto all their newer monoblocks.

The frosted dome tip looks very much like what Broncolor has with its Siros heads, hardly a design Broncolor invented (even though I can't recall where else I've seen it) but I'd guess that's where they got the idea from.
 
Last edited:
HoppyUK said:
I'd give them the benefit of the doubt on that. They've obviously thought about it, and my guess is it'll work well - helping to fill a softbox right to the edges and reduce the hotspot that pretty much all softboxes have to some extent (even those that claim otherwise).

I'd guess though, that it's more to do with the substantially uprated modelling LED. Like most, the current LED produces a very hard light and with a softbox this projects a clear pattern of the inner-diffuser and it's elasticated fittings onto the front panel. The little frosted front should fix that.
Click to expand...

One of the things I like about LED modelling lights is their ability to produce hard light - this one was done using the 10Watt job on the Safari II
https://www.flickr.com/photos/owenlloyd/33281470323/in/dateposted-public/

38Watts is very usable - and it'll be nice and crisp providing the modelling lamp still works if you pull the tube out. From this perpective It's a shame they made the tube bigger (although better from a softbox point of view) - it would be nice to get this quality of light from a big flash - The diffuser on the front should make it usable with a Fresnel though. I stick a small disc of Translum plastic to the glass domes on my SF600's for this ( to avoid the image of the tube appearing in the light pattern).
 
mike weeks said:
Not sure where this idea came from as all photo gear is built in 1 area except Bowens who started in a totally different city which nobody could understand so to the best of my knowledge Godox did not make the Bowens gear, at least not in their main factory but happy to be corrected on that.

Mike
Click to expand...
Area 1.... ? Not heard of that. Several flash manufacturerers are located in Shenzhen, which is China's technology hub, and Godox is one of those. There are very good reasons for this, a good supply of skilled engineers, who of course bring ideas, skills and knowledge with them when they change jobs, a good suppy of electronic components, firms that make very good tooling, immediately next door to Hong Kong, etc. But flash manufacturers are in lots of other places too, including Shanghai. Bowens chose to go to somewhere pretty obscure, no doubt for an equally obscure reason. Their physical distance from the Godox factory, where 'their' latest flashes were made, isn't really relevant because Chinese infrastructure is excellent.

The only real downside that I see to this apparently excellent new product isn't directly related to the actual product, but to Godox's policy of constantly updating their range, just like Canon - second hand values plummet.
 
Garry Edwards said:
The only real downside that I see to this apparently excellent new product isn't directly related to the actual product, but to Godox's policy of constantly updating their range, just like Canon - second hand values plummet.
Click to expand...

Isn't that a good thing for end users? "Oh noes what do I do, the market is flooded with all these amazingly well specced dirt cheap monoblocks... but I really wanted to spend 2-3 times more to get a new version with a frosted dome."

Not that the pro update is just a frosted dome but we're very much into incremental improvements here on.
 
simonbarker said:
Isn't that a good thing for end users? "Oh noes what do I do, the market is flooded with all these amazingly well specced dirt cheap monoblocks... but I really wanted to spend 2-3 times more to get a new version with a frosted dome."

Not that the pro update is just a frosted dome but we're very much into incremental improvements here on.
Click to expand...
What I meant is that the constant introduction of new, improved models means that the second hand value of previous models is much lower than with manufacturers who don't follow this policy.
I'm not saying that it was a good thing, but as an example, because for many years Bowens failed to bring out any substantial improvements to their range, second hand flash heads kept their value very well.
For professionals, this doesn't really matter because money spent on new tools is written off as part of the cost of business, but for the amateur market (which Godox aims at) the situation is very different.
 
Garry Edwards said:
What I meant is that the constant introduction of new, improved models means that the second hand value of previous models is much lower than with manufacturers who don't follow this policy.
I'm not saying that it was a good thing, but as an example, because for many years Bowens failed to bring out any substantial improvements to their range, second hand flash heads kept their value very well.
For professionals, this doesn't really matter because money spent on new tools is written off as part of the cost of business, but for the amateur market (which Godox aims at) the situation is very different.
Click to expand...

For Amateurs it's both good and bad news - for someone looking to 'dip their toes' into strobes, it means they can pick up decent spec kit at bargain bucket prices - which is great.
For someone wanting to upgrade, it's a problem, as they'll get less when they try to sell their 'old' models - but the only reason they will be selling their old strobe and getting a new one is because Godox (or similar) have released a new, improved model, and they want the added features - and it's difficult to justify complaining that the advent of the new version you want has caused the resale value of the old model (that you no longer want) to drop :)
 
Faldrax said:
For Amateurs it's both good and bad news - for someone looking to 'dip their toes' into strobes, it means they can pick up decent spec kit at bargain bucket prices - which is great.
For someone wanting to upgrade, it's a problem, as they'll get less when they try to sell their 'old' models - but the only reason they will be selling their old strobe and getting a new one is because Godox (or similar) have released a new, improved model, and they want the added features - and it's difficult to justify complaining that the advent of the new version you want has caused the resale value of the old model (that you no longer want) to drop :)
Click to expand...

Some good points including the above quote here. As it happens I took delivery of another AD600B today which I'd ordered just before Xmas due to Lencarta twisting my arm with a 12% discount. And what with Wex having 10% on L lenses and cashback on the one I'd been hankering for it's been useful to get a heap of discount. Anyways, yes the Pro does look like a great piece of kit.

Am I reflecting upon the possibility that something I just got perhaps dropping a wad on its re sale value? Not in the least. I have many more ideas that I have yet to try using a pair of AD600's and maybe a couple of Vings for location work than I'll get time to execute in the next twelve months for sure. Also I am pretty impressed with the current units, they perform well enough that they certainly won't compromise anything I'm likely to be shooting. The X pro Trigger was something I had to have as it's so much easier to navigate when using multiple strobes, the changes in terms of the AD600's are looking like steps in the right direction in respect of the modeling lamp and re cycling times, albeit I've never found myself stood waiting for the current units to make themselves available.

Personally I'm seeing the upgrades as progress, not sufficient to cause my perception of my own position in terms of having just bought another unit to alter in any way. Having already owned the product for a good while I knew what I was buying, I know they work reliably. Maybe if they start showing up at silly prices I'll get some more. It's certainly useful to have HSS in the studio so potentially I'd shift my current static strobes and replace them with all AD600's using the mains packs which I can augment if required with my location kit and have a pile of spare battery packs for when i work out doors. .
 
I don't see any alternative to frequent model updates, given that battery-powered flash units like this are very new, technology driven, and the technology is moving fast. The AD600 Pro is showing the biggest performance improvements in three key technology areas - lithium battery performance, LED brightness, and IGBT for enhanced colour accuracy.

If the AD600 Pro's optimised colour mode is anything like the Profoto B1X, then at lower power settings when the light tends to go a bit cool, it'll add a quick burst of IGBT-controlled high speed sync pulses that are a bit warmer, to neutralise it. Clever, though it plays havoc with flash durations ;)
 
A bit OT, but are we seeing a new business model being trialed by Godox in the US with retailers Adorama? Adorama offers a three year warranty, but reading between the lines of posts on US forums, it seems like they don't actually repair much, but simply replace it with new.

How can Godox afford to do this? Well, there isn't the very substantial cost of running a US service department for a start, and provided the units are pretty reliable in the first place it should only be small numbers. Then the faulty units are shipped back to China, repaired at the factory, and maybe resold on the domestic Chinese market. But what happens after the warranty expires, or with accident damage not covered by warranty? Could they still simply replace those items for a fixed cost of say £200 (or whatever)?

I have a hunch the numbers might just stack up, in which case Godox can continue to operate without a traditional distributor which is currently playing a key role in keeping prices low. From our point of view, this arrangement would be a massive incentive for Godox to maintain high standards of reliabililty, and if I was a working professional needing to get my kit back urgently, paying £200 for a guaranteed replacement unit by return of post would be very appealing.

Just thinking out loud here :)
 
Last edited:
HoppyUK said:
A bit OT, but are we seeing a new business model being trialed by Godox in the US with retailers Adorama? Adorama offers a three year warranty, but reading between the lines of posts on US forums, it seems like they don't actually repair much, but simply replace it with new.

How can Godox afford to do this? Well, there isn't the very substantial cost of running a US service department for a start, and provided the units are pretty reliable in the first place it should only be small numbers. Then the faulty units are shipped back to China, repaired at the factory, and maybe resold on the domestic Chinese market. But what happens after the warranty expires, or with accident damage not covered by warranty? Could they still simply replace those items for a fixed cost of say £200 (or whatever)?

I have a hunch the numbers might just stack up, in which case Godox can cut out the traditional distributor that is currently playing a key role in keeping prices low. From our point of view, this arrangement would be a massive incentive for Godox to maintain high standards of reliabililty, and if I was a working professional needing to get my kit back urgently, paying £200 for a guaranteed replacement unit by return of post would be very appealing.

Just thinking out loud here :)
Click to expand...
The short answer is that I just don't know, but I strongly suspect that Godox supply Andorama with parts FOC and that Andorama covers the labour costs. It may well be that they sometimes replace, and repair later.
Your theory that they may be sent back to Godox in batches, who then repair them may also be true,but it's unlikely that repaired units are then sold in China because although this product sells wellin both Europe and the USA, they hardly sell at all in China.
 
Garry Edwards said:
The short answer is that I just don't know, but I strongly suspect that Godox supply Andorama with parts FOC and that Andorama covers the labour costs. It may well be that they sometimes replace, and repair later.
Your theory that they may be sent back to Godox in batches, who then repair them may also be true,but it's unlikely that repaired units are then sold in China because although this product sells wellin both Europe and the USA, they hardly sell at all in China.
Click to expand...

It's more a hypothesis really Garry - how things might work without going down the traditional distributor route. That's the key to it, cutting out the local distributor and the fat slice of margin that they take. In today's new business landscape the only thing that can't be worked around or handled some other way is local servicing.

And I think it just might work, provided the failure rate is manageable and Godox could dispose of the damaged units cost effectively. There are lots of ways that might be done, but your comment re the Chinese domestic market reminds me of the two shoe salesmen who went on reconnaissance to Africa. One came back and said it's hopeless, nobody wears shoes. The other came back and said there's a fantastic opportunity, nobody wears shoes! I think Chinese photographers would love a pair of flashy new shoes if the price was right. Maybe a better way might be to ship the repaired units back to the US where they could be given to customers as refurbs rather than brand new replacements.
 
HoppyUK said:
It's more a hypothesis really Garry - how things might work without going down the traditional distributor route. That's the key to it, cutting out the local distributor and the fat slice of margin that they take. In today's new business landscape the only thing that can't be worked around or handled some other way is local servicing.
Click to expand...
In fact, Godox are now starting to go down the distributor route, very belatedly, one per country. And margins aren't fat, they are extremely tight, because reputable businesses that pay VAT and other taxes and that have overheads, have to compete with Ebay sellers that evade tax, have no overheads and don't hold stock. In the U.S., it's Andorama who have the distribution. I believe though that it's still all about sales volume, with customer service very much on the back burner and at the discretion of the distributor.
HoppyUK said:
but your comment re the Chinese domestic market reminds me of the two shoe salesmen who went on reconnaissance to Africa. One came back and said it's hopeless, nobody wears shoes. The other came back and said there's a fantastic opportunity, nobody wears shoes! I think Chinese photographers would love a pair of flashy new shoes if the price was right. Maybe a better way might be to ship the repaired units back to the US where they could be given to customers as refurbs rather than brand new replacements.
Click to expand...
It's not about whether Chinese photographers would like the flashy new products if the price was right, it's about whether they actually see any point to having them.
Both portrait and still life photography studios in China are truly massive - photography factories, compared to the EU ones. Given the vast workflow and the extremely high ambient temperatures in summer (often mid 40's) they need units that will last and last, that won't overheat, and that are low stressed. A very small minority of the best studios use Profoto, most of the best ones won't entertain anything except Bron. Nearly all of the studio chains use Jinbei, partly perhaps because of historical reasons (Jinbei used to have a monopoly position in China, they are dedicated to good customers service and they've been around for a very long time) but also perhaps because although Jinbei make good flashes, they tend to put them in old fashioned, over-large cases, which act as a heatsink, and everything is over-specified, which means that they are understressed and very reliable. Godox are now starting to become better known in China, and no doubt they will contibnue to grow there too and will end up dominating the market, but right now it's mainly Jinbei and Bron for pro studio use.
To give you an idea of the different photographic approach there, although of course most photographers (numerically) use the same cameras that we do, every shopping mall there has a floor dedicated entirely to large format, with sizes going up to 24" x 20", and a vast range of field, technical and monorail cameras in 5"x4" and 10" x 8" - where, in this country, can we find any kind of range of LF cameras?

In China, all smalll cameras are imported and are horrifically expensive, compared to the prices we pay here. Chinese produced flashes though are cheap, so it isn't about price, it's about perceived fitness for purpose.

We need to understand that pro photography is very different there - here, in a much smaller market with no large businesses, everyone is trying to be more creative than everyone else, so they buy fancy gear with HSS, IGBT and strobe mode - in China, it's all about image quality, not creativity or 'different' so the demands are very different. We could compare cars - I drive an off-roader that can tow very heavy trailers across muddy fields, and my car of choice for this demanding work is a Mitsubish Shogun, and ALL of our neighbouring farmers have either the Shogun or the larger Mitsubishi L200 - now, I can't afford a Range Rover Sport but although they all can, nobody has one - not the right tool for the job, too fancy, has all of the electronic wizardry that experienced off road drivers don't want or need, and they go wrong, also they don't take too kindly with being stuffed with hay:) We have neighbours, townies who've bought a house in the country, they're the people with Range Rovers, but they never go off road so don't get any mud on them (unless our quad goes past too fast):) What farmers want is a reliable workhorse, and that's what Chinese studios want too.

I've only ever been to one Chinese wedding as a guest, but I've watched the photographers at loads of weddings, and again it's mostly Jinbei, with a smattering of Yongnuo flashguns, although I have seen some AD360's as well.
 
Robert Hall has got hold of an AD600-Pro. Seems like it's as good as it promised, with modelling lamp two stops brighter, class-leading colour, recycling in less than 1 sec, plus a handful of other small operating improvements (y) His sample is a tad down on expected power, though Godox assure him that's a pre-production issue - TBC.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GvR_v9F4aw
 
  • Like
Reactions: TG.
simonbarker said:
I can see a lot of OCD types getting hacked off with the group letter on the display. ;)
Click to expand...

Not big enough?!

I'd like something that changed colour according to group. Or is that my OCD getting the better of me? ;)
 
mike weeks said:
Rob Hall has put up some notes about his tests. Seems that the light is better spread with the new design compared to a hotter centre with the older design. He reckons that there is the same amount of light, just spread differently

Mike
Click to expand...

You mean, he didn't think of that and compare them properly? Jeez :eek:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top