Going to have a go at home developing

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Mark
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Hi again,

I've really been bitten by the film bug :D

College time is limited and although the tutor says I can come other times to use the facilities it means an afternoon off work. So to maximise my time at the college using the darkroom and print facilities I am going to have a go at developing my film at home. I've been reading around and searching on here. Currently I am feeling a bit overwhelmed by the information - apologies if I've missed posts in my searches.

A colleague at work has offered me all his home dev kit. Dev tank, mixing jugs, thermometers, trays etc. I am going to take him up on the offer. So I think all I need to get is a changing bag, and the dev chemicals. I am shooting with Ilford IP4+ ISO125 currently. I have seen the superb information on the Ilford website and also the Silverprint website that Joxby linked to previously. Sorry but I have a couple of questions...

Which dev? I want a solution, not granules. I think the best to go for is Ilfosol 3 or S (I believe '3' has replaced 'S'). Would you agree?

Do I need stop solution? My colleague at work reckons you are OK with just rinsing as long as you factor this in to the dev time.

Fixer - Ilford Hypam I think?

Also I live in an area of very hard water. Am I ok washing in tap water or should be be doing the final rinse in distilled water with a wetting agent?

Final question - how do you get the chemicals to the required temperature? Water bath?

TIA

Mark F
 
Sorry I have no advice to give, but just want to wish you well with the developing. I'm in the middle of a college course and have caught the bug too.

In the next few weeks I can see myself getting a home dev set up too.

S
 
Well after lots of going round in circles on Ilford and Silverprint websites I think I am going for Ilfotec DD-X developer as on my first attempt at least...
 
Hey Mark, I answered some questions like this not so long ago... this is what I use for B&W:

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So...

Which dev? Kodak Tmax - pretty standard (and cheap!) stuff and work nicely

Do I need stop solution? My colleague at work reckons you are OK with just rinsing as long as you factor this in to the dev time.

Most will say no, but I use one to control the amount of dev time more accurately

Fixer - Ilford Hypam I think?

Yes, but I use rapid fixer which also works fine

Also I live in an area of very hard water. Am I ok washing in tap water or should be be doing the final rinse in distilled water with a wetting agent?

Normal tap water will do and always use wetting agent (or a drop of washing up liquid)

Final question - how do you get the chemicals to the required temperature? Water bath?

If the water's too cold straight out the tap, chuck a bit of hot water into your cold water jug until you're at around 20 degrees celcius. For B&W this doesn't have to be too accurate
 
Developer - I am old fashioned enough to not be bothered about having to dissolve crystals so tend to use ID-11 most of the time (microphen if I want to push). For a liquid the best general purpose choice is the DD-X but personally I don't think it matches ID-11.

Not using stop bath is a false economy. It is dirt cheap, lasts a long time and extends the life of your not cheap fixer. On top of that it allows you to control dev time more accurately and this means more controllably consistent results.

Hypam and rapid fixer are both fine - rapid is preferable for Delta films as they require longer fix times.

Distilled water shouldn't be necessary but I would certainly get wetting agent (and I would get ilfotol over fairy unless you really want that lemon freshness)

As far as temperature control goes you are right, a big washing up bowl is what you need. B&W has a pretty broad temerature tolerance (unlike E6). Don't forget to put your dev tank in the water bath as well to get it and the film close to the temperature you want and then use the actual temperature of the dev to work out the time required.

If you have a Patterson tank throw away the stupid swizzle stick that comes with it as using it is a sure-fire way of getting lovely big air bubbles around the film. As soon as the soup is in a couple of sharp taps of the tank on the worktop and then gentle, smooth inversions. Get into a natural rhythm for these so that it becomes even, consistent and reproducible.

Have a run with water and no film to get a feel for the emptying and filling times for your tank and use a bit of film leader to check your fixer's clearing time for the film you are using.
 
Cheers guys so much. At least it looks like I am along the right lines and the choice of developer seems to be a real personal thing. Seems like I just need to at least get a set of the chemicals and then try different devs to see which I personally prefer.

My colleague dropped a bag full of bits on my desk. The dev tank is a Paterson 4 but I don't think it has a cap - just an agitator that locks on the main 'axle' and I guess you use to rotate the spiral. Can I buy a cap so I can invert or will I have to live with the 'swizzle stick' method?

Sorry so many questions but I'm getting there. 2nd roll of film loaded and ready to shoot and then process at home!
 
Patterson tanks do have lids - I rather doubt you can buy the lid on its own though. The tanks go cheaply enough on Ebay or indeed don't cost a fortune new.
 
Cheers NR you've been a great help. 23quid new on Jessops or Silverprint website. Think I might get a new one...
 
Cheers again all - great help. I have run through this once at college so familiar with the routine. Just need to get it to pat at home!!!
 
Right I've got to the bottom of the Dev Tank. My colleague has given me a 'System 4' tank but no cap. I believe the latest is Super System 4 which is better for inversion. I think I will keep my eyes out for a Super System 4 tank...

Apologies - another question.

I went into my local camera shop and they have some bits and pieces for home dev. They have Ilfosol 3 dev. I downloaded this (beware 200k PDF) info sheet for said developer. On the dev chart it says the dev is suitable for FP4+ but there are spaces against ISO125 FP4+ @20 deg C, although there are recommended times at 24 deg C of 4 minutes.

I don't understand this as I thought it is recommended to develop longer than 5 minutes for a consistent result? Can I use the temp correction charts 'in reverse' to work out how long for this developer or should I look at a different dev product?

Thanks (again) very much in advance

Mark F
 
I have only very limited experience with Ilfosol 3 but here goes:

You are quite right in your statement that once you get below 5 minutes dev time things can go pear-shaped very easily. This is because any margin of error becomes a far greater percentage of the overall time. A couple of seconds here or there out of say 11 mins (a significant nymber as that is ID-11 stock +1 for FP4+ at 20 degrees C) will matter a lot less than a couple of seconds out of 4 mins.

My take on Ilfosol 3 is that it seems to be optimised for faster films and for the tabular emulsions (as on the Delta stocks). I know that it says differently on the introduction of the data sheet but my slight experience with the stuff suggests that for Delta 100 it works a treat and less so for just about any other emulsion I have tried it with.

I know that you don't want to use a powder but in 35 years of using ID-11 it has only let me down when I have taken ridiculous liberties with it and it is certainly the closest to a universal dev that I have found - the fact that it is cheap and lasts for ever is a bonus.

Stick with your original choice of Ilfotec DD-X which gives you a sensible 10 mins for FP4+ at 20 degrees and 1+4 dilution.

By the way the system 4 tanks did have lids and they could be inverted but the bloody lids had a habit of sticking when you wanted to get the dev out! The super system 4 has a lid more like a tupperware one and the opening is much larger - quicker filling and emptying and a lot easier to get on with in general.
 
Thanks again! My system 4 hasn't come with a lid and I get the impression inversion agitation is the recommended method so will look for a super system 4 tank which is what I have experience of on my course.

I will go with DD-X or maybe have a look at ID11 - you are slowly selling it to me. Unfortunately my degree was chemistry related but I have had nothing to do with my subject since graduation as I was so glad to get it over and done with - hence I have an aversion to going back in the lab and mixing my own chemicals!!!
 
I can understand an aversion to mixing chemicals and was delighted when they changed Ilfostop from galcial acetic acid to citric acid - a lot less unpleasant!

ID-11 comes in pre-measured sachets - dissolve packet A into warm water, stir in packet B, top up with cold and wait for the temperature to drop to the desired level while you get everything else ready so not exactly taxing.

I forgot to mention re temperature - 20 degrees is right at the bottom of the normal range so you are better off developing a tad higher - 21 or 22 is about right and you can use the rule of thumb of reduction of time by 10% per degree above 20 to save faffing about with the silly graphs.
 
Ilfosol S is really easy going, ideal first go at developing developer, you can move on to slightly more exotic developers when you have feel for the modus operandi.
I remember trying HC110, my first shot at that was crazy, the timings were much shorter, everything was a rush, it completely buggered my methods up.
If you want to plan a developing session, use the massive development chart to know what the timings are likely to be for virtually any film/developer combination.
Like most things, preparation oils the wheels when time is an important factor.
 
Well no update for a while on this - I've been slowly getting the bits and pieces together.

My local camera shop got me a very nice Changing Bag.

I got myself a Paterson Super 4 Dev Tank off Ebay.

A work colleague gave me some measuring cylinders and thermometers.

And my chemicals turned up yesterday from Silverprint.

And I've been slowly exposing some frames on my second roll of ILFORD ISO125 FP4+ - about half way through.

Taking all of your good advice I went for the ID11. Imagine my shock when I worked out I had to mix up 5 litres of the dam stuff! Turns out Silverprint got my order wrong - I ordered 1 litre and that's all they charged me for but sent me sachets for 5 litres. Gonna be fun mixing this stuff in but I've got an old 5l plastic container to keep it in (old farmhouse Cider vessel I think) but I think I am going to mix it up in a washing up bowl!

Gonna prepare the developer tonight and get developing over the weekend I think. Hopefully I'll have a few shots to show you soon...
 
Freester - you don't have to mix all 5 liters all at once. Developer only keeps in a mixed state for about 2 weeks and then it starts loosing it's strength. Of course if you plan on using all 5 litres in about 2 weeks, then cool... this will allow you to develop about 30 reels of 35mm in your Paterson Super 4 tank if you use the developer twice.

EDIT: that's 30 reels in the 3 x 35mm reel tank (I automatically assumes you were using one of these).
 
Freester - you don't have to mix all 5 liters all at once.

Are you sure? I've only got 2 sachets of different powder (it's ID11). It's going to be quite difficult to measure accurately in the correct ratio the two different powders to make less volume.

Developer only keeps in a mixed state for about 2 weeks and then it starts loosing it's strength. Of course if you plan on using all 5 litres in about 2 weeks, then cool...

Again are you sure - the Ilford ID11 sheet says Stock Solution will last 6 months in a full tightly capped container after being made up and 1 month if in a half full container. It doesn't really matter if some of it goes down the drain as I only paid for 1 litre of powder!

this will allow you to develop about 30 reels of 35mm in your Paterson Super 4 tank if you use the developer twice.

EDIT: that's 30 reels in the 3 x 35mm reel tank (I automatically assumes you were using one of these).

Thanks - I am actually using a 2x35mm tank.
 
Freester - apologies, I haven't used ID11 before. I was thinking about the dev that I use - Kodak Kmax which is a liquid developer. In terms of mixing the correct ratio - I guess if you don't have any way of measuring the powder, then spiting it up may be tricky.

Ignore me! :LOL:
 
Yeh I guessed you were thinking of liquid dev. If I dilute the stock solution the rules are similar.

I think the powder is slightly more hassle as you have to mix up the stock solution but it's cheap compared to liquid dev so you can afford to not re-use!

Gonna make up the dev this morning. Finish off the film this afternoon and have a go a developing later!

Cheers

Mark F
 
Well I finally got there. Actually not too much trouble apart from having to mix up 5 litres of the damn developer.

I have some awful drying marks on my negs which are showing in my pics. Here are a few generated from scans of the negs. Why have I got drying marks on my negs? I used some wetting agent. Could I have used too much?

Anyway here you go...

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Oh and thanks for all the help. Mrs F assisted me a bit this afternoon and actually enjoyed the experience. You just can't beat that feeling when you take a sneaky peak after finishing the fix!
 
Looks like they turned out OK. I've spotted only one drying mark so far, though could be lens flare (no. 3) - did you clone them out?

If you use a drop (ie about a teaspoon) of wetting agent after your final rinse (mixed with a tank full of water) you shouldn't get drying marks. Also, squeezing off the excess water from the film is a subject of debate - some like to use a special rubber squeegee and others just use middle and fore fingers to run the film through - the point being to remove excess water , but not so much that you're damaging the film.

Also, your final rinse must be done properly with repeated changes of water otherwise you'll end up with bad drying marks caused by excess fixer on the film.
 
Looks like they turned out OK. I've spotted only one drying mark so far, though could be lens flare (no. 3) - did you clone them out?

I cloned out 2 huge marks in #2. I think the one in #3 is flare.

If you use a drop (ie about a teaspoon) of wetting agent after your final rinse (mixed with a tank full of water) you shouldn't get drying marks. Also, squeezing off the excess water from the film is a subject of debate - some like to use a special rubber squeegee and others just use middle and fore fingers to run the film through - the point being to remove excess water , but not so much that you're damaging the film.

I do have a squeegy and I did use it. One gentle swipe from top to bottom. I did read after I used it that you should dip the squeegee in the water with the wetting agent - I didn't do this. I added an estimated 5ml of agent to a litre of water as per instructions. It bubbled a bit though I just wonder if I added / overestimated a little.

Also, your final rinse must be done properly with repeated changes of water otherwise you'll end up with bad drying marks caused by excess fixer on the film.

Again I followed the water conservation rules in the Ilford PDF 'How to Develop Your First B&W Film'. It says fill tank invert 5 times and empty. Fill tank, invert 10 times then empty, finally fill and invert 20 times then empty. I then did a final fill with wetting agent and inverted 10 times then emptied.

So perhaps too much agent or not enough rinse and fixer still hanging around. Food for thought - the only part of the process I will change next time I think!
 
Sounds like you did enough rinsing. Regarding the amount of wetting agent - that also sounds fine... in fact some people don't even use wetting agent and manage to get decent results. Still, best to be safe and use wetting agent, but not more than what is recommended by Ilford.

The only part of the process that it seems you might have gone wrong is not putting some wetting agent/water mix on the squeegy before running the film through it - this could have caused some unevenness in removing excess water...
 
Cheers Mike thanks for all your help and patience. Really rewarding result despite the water marks...
 
Did my 3rd roll at the weekend. I put a few shots up in the 'Show yer Film Shots thread'. I took NR's advice and did the final rinse with Brita filtered water + wetting agent. This improved the watermarks but they are still evident.

The water around these parts is notoriously hard. I think next time I will do the final rinse with some distilled water to see if this makes a difference.
 
I've also had really bad problems with drying marks, and we're in a hard water area too. Strangley enough though, it only seems to affect my 35mm stuff not my 5x4 negs?

I've started using cooled boiled water for my final rinse and it seems to have done the risk.

Next investment....... reverse osmosis water unit lol.
 
I've also had really bad problems with drying marks, and we're in a hard water area too. Strangley enough though, it only seems to affect my 35mm stuff not my 5x4 negs?

Bizarre. Surely some kind of scientific explanation to do with surface area I expect :shrug:

I've started using cooled boiled water for my final rinse and it seems to have done the risk.

Maybe worth a try. I think I am going for distilled water from the petrol station next.

Next investment....... reverse osmosis water unit lol.

Ahhh the things we do for our obsession!
 
Just a thought, if you are having problems with drying marks, If you have a dusty place!! thats caused problems with me in the past, also i tihnk the length of time it takes the film to dry! could it be taking too long? allowing dust to settle in the water remaining.. :shrug:
 
For the temperature I warm my developer in a pyrex jug in the microwave!

(For those worried about me blowing up the house I do this only 10 sec at a time and very gently! I also only use the jug for developer not gravy!)

I get it to about 22deg and by the time I'm ready to use it it's about right.
 
Just a thought, if you are having problems with drying marks, If you have a dusty place!! thats caused problems with me in the past, also i tihnk the length of time it takes the film to dry! could it be taking too long? allowing dust to settle in the water remaining.. :shrug:

Cheers fraggle that's something to consider. Going to develop a roll this weekend and am going to try distilled water for the last rinse. If that doesn't solve things then maybe what you have suggested might...
 
For the temperature I warm my developer in a pyrex jug in the microwave!

(For those worried about me blowing up the house I do this only 10 sec at a time and very gently! I also only use the jug for developer not gravy!)

I get it to about 22deg and by the time I'm ready to use it it's about right.

That's an interesting method! I've got a nice method with a water bath in a washing up bowl to pat now though!
 
Dear all,
here's an article off my website that might help with developing technique.
It talks about using Perceptol (another powder-based developer from Ilford) and HP5 plus.

I hope it's useful.

There's also a development chart in the techniques section of my site.

Producing Fine Negatives using Ilford HP5 plus and Perceptol.
Contents
Introduction
Exposure
Consistent Development Technique
Preparation
Processing the film
Introduction

The process of producing a fine print starts long before the photographer enters the darkroom. The most important step in this process is the production of a 'fine negative'. Essentially, this involves exposing the film to maximise the amount of detail in the shadows and using development to control the highlights.

The purpose of this page is to outline the process for producing fine negatives using Ilford HP5 plus developed in Ilford's Perceptol developer. If these guidelines are followed, then provided you have exposed your film correctly, fine negatives are virtually guaranteed.
Exposure.

Rate Ilford HP5 plus at EI200 - THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!!
Consistent development technique

Before we start to discuss the actual process of film development, it is important to stress the importance of consistency and control during development. As you become more experienced, you will probably want to conduct personal film speed tests and personal development time tests. By carrying out these tests you are able to exercise a very high degree of control over the final image. However, unless your developing technique is absolutely consistent then the tests will be a complete waste of time. The factors that affect consistency are:

* Temperature - this needs to be controlled to within half a degree Celsius - don't worry, this is not as difficult as it seems! It is important that all of the solutions and the water used for the pre-soak and film washing are at the same temperature.
* Time - You must stop your development timing at the same point for every film that you develop. If you decide to fill the tank and start timing rather than start timing and filling the tank, then stick to it. What other people do is immaterial - what matters is that you do the same thing every time!
* Agitation - Always agitate in the same way and using the same method. In his book 'Elements', Barry Thornton advocates inverting the tank and using a twisting motion to ensure that no eddies are set up in the tank. This method works very well indeed.

Preparation.

Before you start developing your film, you will need the following items:

* Four plastic jugs, one each for your pre-wash, developer, stop and fix baths
* A developing tray. This will be used as a tempering bath to maintain the temperature of the solutions
* A clean washing up bowl - for your water
* An accurate thermometer (preferably two - but they must give consistent readings!)
* Your pre-loaded developing tank
* Your stock solution of Perceptol (for details on how to make up the stock solution, instructions can be found on the inside of the cardboard packet that contains the developing powders.

Fill the washing-up bowl with water at 24 degrees Celsius. Ideally, the water should be filtered to remove any detritus from it. It is well worth obtaining a Paterson water filter - they are reasonably cheap and quite effective.
Make up the developer using 1 part of stock solution to two parts of water. For a single 35 mm film in Paterson developing tank,you will need 300 ml of developer, which is made up of 100 ml of stock solution and 200 ml of water.
Heat the developer, stop and fix to 24 degrees C in the tempering bath. I normally start with a fairly hot bath to speed things up and when things are at the correct temperature, cool it down to say 26 degrees.
When everything is up to temperature, you can start to developyour film.

Processing the film

The Pre-soak

Fill the developing tank with clean water from your washing-up bowl at 24 degrees C. Tap the tank on the bench to remove any air bubbles and leave it to stand for 1 minute.

Pour the pre-soak water down the sink. If you are developing a 120 film the water will have taken on a dark blue hue. Don't worry this is just the anti-halation layer and some dyes in the film.

If there is a major variation between the solution temperature and the air temperature, a second pre-soak should do no harm, but I have never really needed this.
Development

Pour the developer into the tank and start the timer. Put the lid on the tank and agitate by inverting the tank until 30 seconds have gone by.

Tap the tank on the bench to remove any air bells.

After one minute, agitate the tank for ten seconds (I normally find that four inversions is sufficient) and tap the tank on the bench.

Repeat this step every minute until the end of the development time.

After about 4 minutes, check the developer temperature. If it has dropped below 23 and a half degrees, it is worth warming it up.
Do this by pouring warm water over the lid of the tank. The heat will be transferred to the developer when you agitate. It may take a couple of minutes to bring things up to temperature.

After 12 minutes, pour the used developer away (I normally start pouring it out at 11 minutes and 50 seconds). Note that dilute Perceptol is a one-shot solution - DO NOT TRY TO REUSE IT!!
Stopping and fixing

Pour the stop bath in to the tank, replace the lid and agitate for a few seconds. After 1 minute pour the stop bath back into its jug for reuse.

Pour the fix into the tank, replace the lid and agitate for ten seconds every minute. Fix for four minutes and pour the fix back in to its jug for reuse.
Washing

Using the water in the bowl, which should be at or very near to 24 degrees Celsius, fill the tank, replace the lid and invert it five times and pour the water away. Refill the tank, invert ten times, and again with twenty and finally forty inversions.

Remove the film from the emptied tank (DO NOT TAKE IT OFF THE SPIRAL YET!!!) and place a couple of drops of Ilfotol or similar wetting agent into the tank and then fill the tank with water from the bowl.

Replace the film spiral and agitate it by 'swishing' it up and down. I recommend that you leave it in the wetting solution for at least a minute - minute and a half.
Drying

Whether you use a squeegee on your films is a matter of personal choice. I tend to squeegee 35 mm films, but not 120 films. A good squeegee is essential if you are going to avoid scratches. It is not worth buying second hand - I did once and regretted it. The Jobo squeegee is very good. The blades are made of a very soft rubber and I have had no problems with it...Yet.
You only need to pass the film through the squeegee once.

Hang the film up to dry in a well ventilated, dust free area and do not touch it until it is absolutely dry. After a few hours, you will have negatives that are a dream to print, have minimal grain and are nice and sharp.

©Mark Pope 2000
 
B/W developing and printing, great fun. Colour developing and printing, a pain in the ass.To many errors. I have an all singing & dancing Durst enlarger with built in colour computer. It takes to long to set it up for the different makes of film. Digital is so much easier.
 
OK, iv got the stuff.. iv been to Silverprint and spent a small fortune!! i hope im going to get my moneys worth out of it!!!

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Nice one Tony - looks like you're ready to rock with all that stuff. I bought exactly the same chems (except the dev - I used Kodak Tmax) about 3 months ago and they've only now run out. Time to go out and buy some more...

Once you've got the B&W mastered, you'll want to be getting some colour chems too - also very easy C41 and E6
 
We'll have to have a master class around yours then!! i shall expect a new thread in meeting place!! lol.. open to all filmers.. (y)
 
and for washing the negs one of these is handy Tony ,,saves keep emptying and filling the tank.

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and i dont usually try and dry the strip either with fingers or a squeegee ,,and if you do get drying marks at the end ,, huff ( ?? ) on the shiny side of the negs and gently clean with a lint free cloth ( i 'm not talking brillo and cif )next trip to london ,, a fit shoulder and film cameras .
 
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