going to try strobe photography

realspeed

realspeed

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Bazza
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Yes
Ok why have i not got into working with flash photography? the answer is not having what i consider vital bits of equipment.

Yes the Nikon cameras I have do have pop up flash on them, and that is ok for very basic head on shots. I also have what Nikon call an SB900 flash gun (SB) .

So what is the problem

Just using the camera flash and SB they both fire together and only in line of sight. so getting an angle flash shot is impossible or even a closeup. The camera flash triggers the SB sensor. Result is getting light from two sources. Also have to have camera and SB sensor in line with each other to work

To get anything like the shot I want I have to have the camera so far away as below

SpaQoAL.jpg
.

Just showing SB on tripod

Ok what is wrong with that??? nothing really if that is all I can do, but I want more flexability, so looking to find an answer to just the SB gun firing and not the camera flash.

So a bit of head scratching and then the light came on in my head. Why not use a radio trigger instead. there is a free wave band all have access to for this kind of work


Ah now getting somewhere,but which one? like most photographic equipment price and reliability come into it

So my consideration was price- radio range and power source

As for price around £50/60 (not the price guessed at in the video) should get a good one in mid range price. Radio range most state about 100 mtrs but power source OOH that was a problem. Some have a button battery and others use AA batteries. So obviously i went for the AA battery type in the transmitter and receiver.

Ii did a load of study and with Matt Granger videos I have used his recommendation on other gear

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXJ3-PCbp8k&t=483s


So ordered the Pixel King Nikon version which seems to meet my requirements and take AA batteries in both units. Not the latest version as I don't think I will need it, at least for the time being

So with them I can get close up shots with one flash gun one direction of light ,and open up a completely new form of photos as above without the gun in photo

Well that is how I am going to go and start out, no doubt a lot of learning in the process


All you experts may be able to give some advice, not even attempting portraits for a while
 
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In the camera menu, set commander mode for the on-camera flash ... no purchase needed.
 
Hi Bazza,

All but the most basic Nikon DSLRs support using the pop-up as a commander. This is not the slave mode you have been using to trigger your SB900, but a way to control and trigger up to 2 groups of remote flashes off-camera (and use the master if you wish). You'll find the option in the menus under the flash custom settings for pop-up mode - set it to commander. I set a spare button to go to this screen directly (the "AE-Lock" button is a good one. No-one uses the AE-lock button :) ). On the SB900, turn off the "SU-4" slave mode, and leave the flash in "remote". Make sure the channel number matches your selection on the camera, and look at the group the flash is in. On the camera's Commander mode screen, set the power of the remote light in that group. The camera will use the pop-up to send data to the remote flash to tell it the power setting. You can also set the remote to TTL (Through The Lens) metering. In this mode, the camera use the pop-up to send a command to the remote flashes to fire a test burst one at a time. It measures the results of these flash bursts through the lens and sets the power of each flash accordingly. You can apply compensation up and down in the commander menu.

When you tale the picture, all of the above happens, very quickly, and then the shot is taken with each remote firing at the instructed power output. You will see the pop-up flash, but this is actually happening before the shutter opens as it sends data and commands to the remotes. It isn't actually firing during the exposure.

Note it's a myth that you need line of sight: as long as the light from the pop-up reaches the receiver on the remote units, it'll work. It can bounce off walls, and around corners.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfTR3QtbDbU


and this

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ihqNAbo6Cs

(bear in mind that back then, no radio trigger allowed remote control of the flash power, which meant using the optical data transmission was really useful)

When I used to use this method a lot, in complicated setups, I would use another SB900 as the master on-camera to boost the power, and sometimes, attach it to the camera via an SC-28 cord so the master could be placed somewhere other than at camera. You can also use reflectors to bounce the signal about. The receiver, btw is the little circular window on the *side* of your SB900 - it's not behind the big red panel on the front, as several "tutorials" will tell you.

These days, with the advent of radio triggers that can set the power of the light remotely, just like the commander mode, we all use radio. I had no idea Pixel Kings were still going tbh, but they'll do the job, and using AA's rather than some obscure 3V or 12V battery is a good thing as the cells are larger, and more readily available.

I think you've already discovered the key thing about lighting for *most things* and that is to get it off axis, create a triangle between your camera, the subject and the light, whether that be in a horizontal plane or vertically. Next look at making the light bigger and smaller to control shadow quality by projecting it onto things and bouncing it. Note that plastic dome thing isn't really doing much outside - it's meant to bounce a bit of light to the sides and off the walls for a bit of general fill -light inside. It does have a small diffusing effect (ie it smooths out the light pattern) but this will not make it softer - making the light source bigger (from the subject's pov) will make it softer.

Have a read of this
http://owenlloydphotography.com/?p=2496

Watch Joe
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+mcnally+adorama+photo+on+the+go

Read Joe's books:-
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hot-Shoe-Diaries-Creative-Applications/dp/0321580141
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sketching-Light-Illustrated-Possibilities-Voices/dp/0321700902/


Buy Garry's book
https://www.amazon.com/Lighting-Magic-Garry-Edwards-ebook/dp/B07L2FWXGC
(or see the sticky thread at the top of this forum)

Also... Zack Arias One Light (wait for special offers though)
http://dedpxl.com/product/onelight/
 
Thank you so much Owen for taking the time to reply. I will certainly check out those links. i see in the first link we have the same surname. AS I said I am not really interesed at the moment in taking people type photos of models etc. Just want to see what effects I can get from different objects etc. They rest may come later on if I really get into it

Droj

Again that you for you reply

I do know about commander mode etc as used in the above photo, but I really want to take it a stage further than on camera flash or just line of sight remote flash, it is a bit limiting as to where you can set up a flash gun. A radio trigger ,if I understand it correctly will enable the flash gun to be hidden and still work off the radio waves. the camera also can be used at any angle or position which seems an advantage

AS you are aware you have to use the onboard flash to trigger a flashgun being used remotely, not always the ideal just as tethering is restricting

Another thing that interests me is lighting up plants etch just one light source not from two directions and not direct head on.

Yes commander mode works ok but does have its limits . So getting a radio setup lets me explore more into flash photography and see if I like doing these kind of shots
 
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realspeed said:
AS you are aware you have to use the onboard flash to trigger a flashgun being used remotely, not always the ideal just as tethering is restricting
Click to expand...
The point @droj was making is that whilst the on board flash is required to communicate, it's not necessary for it to fire during the exposure.

I never advise using commander mode (cough - Godox - cough) but it's not as restrictive as many assume.

The Pixel Kings will prove a hindrance as your flash journey moves forward, it'd have helped you immensely if you'd asked advice before buying (cough Godox)
 
Thanks Phil for replying.
The onboard flash is what triggers the remote flashgun. so both flash at the same time and not what I want. As I said I was looking in a price range- looking for AA batteries in both transmitter and receiver- didn't want a TX version so one could swap with the other- wanted high speed sync 1/800sec- ones with reasonable distance range 100mtrs- and more important one that was compatible with my Nikon D810 and my Nikon SB900 flashgun. there were a lot that didn't meet those criteria.

The Godox units have their own battery power which is why I didn't go for that make. If it goes flat out on a shoot you can't just go and buy another from any shop. Charging time also poor from what i have read.
Charging Time2.5 hours with AC charger
4 hours with car charger

So you stop shooting and find a power supply to charge it back up
with the pixel kings the flash gun takes AA batteries The triggers take the same so only need one type of power supply
As i said these are the thoughts that went through my mind, right or wrong but always willing to get your advice or from any other member. For me it is a learning curve and want to walk before running
Just have to see how i get on with them when they come in a few days time
 
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realspeed said:
Thank you so much Owen for taking the time to reply. I will certainly check out those links. i see in the first link we have the same surname. AS I said I am not really interesed at the moment in taking people type photos of models etc. Just want to see what effects I can get from different objects etc. They rest may come later on if I really get into it
Click to expand...

Ah well if it's tabletop/objects I really recommend Martin Botvidson's channel for some inspiration:-
https://www.youtube.com/user/botvidsson

You can get close to this for the smaller objects with speed-lights btw - it's just harder and a bit more DIY :).
 
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[QUOTE="realspeed, post: 8469579, member: 8438"
The Godox units have their own battery power which is why I didn't go for that make. If it goes flat out on a shoot you can't just go and buy another from any shop. Charging time also poor from what i have read...[/QUOTE]

Which Godox triggers were you looking at?
The Standard Trigger is the X1T-N (N= Nikon), which matches to the X1R-N as a receiver - both of which take 2xAA batteries, as far as I can tell (the images on Amazon for both certainly include one showing the battery compartment).

As Phil said, Godox is probably the best option at the moment, as they have such a well integrated system - so the X1T will fire their triggers (and so Nikon or other 3rd party flashguns, etc), but also any Godox Flash, including their mains powered AND battery powered studio strobes.

Then you have the XPro Godox trigger as an upgrae once you're converted to the Godox system :)

Pixel Kings were a top of the range trigger 5+ years ago (I still use mine with my Sony A900, as they were one of the few high end options for the old style Sony / Minolta hotshoe), but the Godox system make them a better choice today.
 
realspeed said:
Thanks Phil for replying.
The onboard flash is what triggers the remote flashgun. so both flash at the same time and not what I want.
Click to expand...

That's not how commander mode works though - the master flash (the pop-up in your case) does not flash during the exposure.


realspeed said:
Thanks Phil for replying.
As I said I was looking in a price range- looking for AA batteries in both transmitter and receiver- didn't want a TX version so one could swap with the other- wanted high speed sync 1/800sec- ones with reasonable distance range 100mtrs- and more important one that was compatible with my Nikon D810 and my Nikon SB900 flashgun. there were a lot that didn't meet those criteria.

The Godox units have their own battery power which is why I didn't go for that make. If it goes flat out on a shoot you can't just go and buy another from any shop. Charging time also poor from what i have read.
Charging Time2.5 hours with AC charger
4 hours with car charger

So you stop shooting and find a power supply to charge it back up
with the pixel kings the flash gun takes AA batteries The triggers take the same so only need one type of power supply
As i said these are the thoughts that went through my mind, right or wrong but always willing to get your advice or from any other member. For me it is a learning curve and want to walk before running
Just have to see how i get on with them when they come in a few days time
Click to expand...


I'm not sure where you got your info for the Godox triggers and the batteries they use. The Godox X1R-N receiver for your SB900 takes two AA's. Godox XPro controller/trigger takes two AA's. Godox own flashes have built in receivers so no batteries at all to worry about. For power for the actual flashgun, I know it sounds like a great idea that you'll be able to buy AA batteries from a shop and use them in your flash, and yes, they will work in a pinch, but they can't support a high current draw so the flash takes longer to recycle between shots. Plus they just don't have the capacity of decent NiMH AA batteries like the Panasonic Eneloops or 7DayShop Good to Go batteries. You need to use good quality rechargeable NiMH AA's.

The Pixel King stuff will do you fine for now - but if the lighting bug does bite you (and tbh, all photographs are lit, you're just taking some more control over how...) then they'll no doubt eventually be on the metaphorical shelf next to my collection of Yongnuo YN622's :p

On the high speed sync thing btw - note that the explanation on Pixel's marketing is completely inaccurate and misleading:-
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pixel-Gene...s&qid=1561811798&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

That's not what HSS is used for and that is almost certainly not how that picture (of the paint splashes) was shot. You only need HSS if you need a high shutter speed to freeze the ambient light. The flash burst itself is so brief it is frozen anyway* - you can freeze objects like that at 1/200th of a second as long as the only (or most) light in the scene is from flashguns. Almost all triggers inc the XPro will do HSS these days if you really do need it (using flash and ambient light and freezing motion ).


*yes there's a whole essay here about flash duration but for medium sized purposes we'll just leave that for now :p
 
Thanks all, really helpful, all depends on this type of photography is something I want to persue
 
realspeed said:
Thanks Phil for replying.
The onboard flash is what triggers the remote flashgun. so both flash at the same time and not what I want. As I said I was looking in a price range- looking for AA batteries in both transmitter and receiver- didn't want a TX version so one could swap with the other- wanted high speed sync 1/800sec- ones with reasonable distance range 100mtrs- and more important one that was compatible with my Nikon D810 and my Nikon SB900 flashgun. there were a lot that didn't meet those criteria.

The Godox units have their own battery power which is why I didn't go for that make. If it goes flat out on a shoot you can't just go and buy another from any shop. Charging time also poor from what i have read.
Charging Time2.5 hours with AC charger
4 hours with car charger

So you stop shooting and find a power supply to charge it back up
with the pixel kings the flash gun takes AA batteries The triggers take the same so only need one type of power supply
As i said these are the thoughts that went through my mind, right or wrong but always willing to get your advice or from any other member. For me it is a learning curve and want to walk before running
Just have to see how i get on with them when they come in a few days time
Click to expand...
All of what Owen posted.
You've made decisions based on incorrect assumptions;
The onboard flash doesn't need to fire during the exposure (bright enough to make a difference)
Godox transmitters use AA batteries
HSS isn't required for high speed photography - it's used to balance flash with a bright ambient light source.

The advice is always the same - ask questions before making decisons.
 
Phil V said:
All of what Owen posted.
You've made decisions based on incorrect assumptions;
The onboard flash doesn't need to fire during the exposure (bright enough to make a difference)
Godox transmitters use AA batteries
HSS isn't required for high speed photography - it's used to balance flash with a bright ambient light source.

The advice is always the same - ask questions before making decisons.
Click to expand...

it is triggering the remote flash I am on about not the onboard flash maybe you misunderstood as shown in the photo i posted
 
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still messing about with line of sight shot just using camera and flashgun with the camera flash triggering the gun

uXGV5lW.jpg

Impossible to do if the flashgun is tethered via a cable. taken at a distance 10 mtrs or about 30ft
Nikon 70-200mm f2.8 @ 70 mm lens setting. What can one achieve with an 80-400mm lens I wonder
same photo now cropped

K4oN04e.jpg


The camera trigger actuated by a radio wireless transmitter and receiver. This stops camera shake.

With the new radio flash just working the flashgun I can hide the camera just so the lens is showing

So what is the aim of it all. Just messing about until i work out how to get the best from the setup. Functions could be one way to go . Thinking camera more or less out of site not flashing and flashgun on the subject and me nowhere near to make people aware ,so get a more natural scene???????? maybe. Future may add more flashguns then radio triggers come into their own

Yes crazy thought ,it is the heat you know that does it

as i said early days and a new learning curve
 
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realspeed said:
it is triggering the remote flash I am on about not the onboard flash maybe you misunderstood as shown in the photo i posted
Click to expand...

Um - yes, but you said this:-

realspeed said:
The onboard flash is what triggers the remote flashgun. so both flash at the same time and not what I want.
Click to expand...

and that isn't how it works. In commander mode, the on-board/pop-up flash does indeed trigger the remote - it just doesn't do it during the exposure. The camera uses the pop-up to send instructions to the remotes including power level, and when to flash. It does this when you press the shutter release button - but before the shutter actually operates.

If you have your SB900 in slave mode however (SU-4 set to on) then yes, it does just mimic other flashes in the room including the pop-up (and flickering florescent light tubes and lightning which can be fun :p ), and you will see light from both in your shot. I suspect this how you triggered your remote SB900 in the shot you posted - as I can see a shadow from the tripod head arm on the floor - which could not have come from the flash that's mounted on top of it.

You need to disable SU-4 on the SB900 to use it as a command-able remote. You also need to disable (set to -- ) group M on the commander menu on the camera

This video is mostly right (I just watched 3 or 4 and they're all wrong to some extent- especially Gary Fong - geez that guy is confused...)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRP2jSTax9A


(note you don't need to set the mode to Program - no idea why he did that).
 
realspeed said:
it is triggering the remote flash I am on about not the onboard flash maybe you misunderstood as shown in the photo i posted
Click to expand...
But the reason you weren't happy using it was (you said)
realspeed said:
so both flash at the same time and not what I want.
Click to expand...

And we're trying to tell you that it's not necessary - see the instructions Owen posted above.
 
That video of Owens show the camera popup flash triggering the remote,which I keep saying.You can't get the remote to flash independently.. Hence getting a radio transmitter and receiver. I said nothing about exposure
 
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realspeed said:
That video of Owens show the camera popup flash triggering the remote,which I keep saying.You can't get the remote to flash independently..
Click to expand...
It is only required to send a signal without 'firing' in the flash.

So the remote flash does 'fire' independently in so far as that's the only light on your photograph, in the absence of 'magic' any remote flash can't fire 'independently' it needs a mechanism from the camera shutter to tell it to fire, whether that's a simple optical slave, a smart optical system (like Nikon's CLS) an IR system, a wire or radio waves.
 
realspeed said:
That video of Owens show the camera popup flash triggering the remote,which I keep saying.You can't get the remote to flash independently.. Hence getting a radio transmitter and receiver. I said nothing about exposure
Click to expand...

When I say "during the exposure" I mean when the shutter is open and the image is being taken (ie when the sensor is being "exposed" to light). I know it looks like the pop-up fires during the exposure because it all happens so fast, but what you're seeing is the pop-up sending data and instructions to fire just *before* the picture is taken. It's all doen by the time the shutter opens and the remote fires (on its own)
 
Just got the radio flash trigger set by Pixel King and the sellers sent the latest version (pro version) not the earlier one I presume used in the advert and in the writeup.
That was bonus number one. Bonus number two was Amazon advertising exactly the same item for £119.99 and the ebay seller I got it from for £54.99.

Needless to say one very happy bunny here
Tried it out quickly and it does work as a go through transmitter unit as well, so still can mount another gun on top (if I had one that is)

IOkeIc8.jpg
 
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