Good Full Frame Digital Camera for Manual Lenses?

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Badsnap

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Andy
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Good Morning.

I recently tried a Fuji X-e2 kit with standard zoom lens but found it was far too small for my clumsy hands and I kept on accidentally hitting buttons. After about a week I realised it was just not for me and gave it to a friend in whose hands it is a perfect fit. She's an absolute beginner but is happy enough with the camera and is slowly working her way through basics: aperture, shutter speed, ISO etc. Apart from generally snapping with the zoom, she principally wants to take pictures of the flowers in her garden and the birds which feed there. To that end she has picked up a Novoflex adapter a couple of manual lenses (as recommended by me), a Contax 300 mm telephoto for the birds and a Yashica 55 mm macro for the flowers. Obviously there is the magnification factor to be taken into account given the size of the Fuji sensor.

My question is: can anybody recommend a full frame digital camera which does not have a byzantine menu system and which lends itself well to manual lenses? She'll only want second hand but it should also have decent build and image quality. My instinct is to think that there must be something suitable from Nikon or Canon but I am familiar with neither system. I can't imagine her being prepared to spend anything more than 1,000 quid.

Any suggestions?
 
The Nikon Zf. It’s a great camera for using manual focus lenses.

Nikon Zf Camera Review. The (almost) Perfect Camera. |

The Nikon Zf is the latest vintage inspired camera from Nikon. This is the Z version of the old Df and works like an old Nikon film camera. My full review
www.stevehuffphoto.com www.stevehuffphoto.com
 
Badsnap said:
Good Morning.

I recently tried a Fuji X-e2 kit with standard zoom lens but found it was far too small for my clumsy hands and I kept on accidentally hitting buttons. After about a week I realised it was just not for me and gave it to a friend in whose hands it is a perfect fit. She's an absolute beginner but is happy enough with the camera and is slowly working her way through basics: aperture, shutter speed, ISO etc. Apart from generally snapping with the zoom, she principally wants to take pictures of the flowers in her garden and the birds which feed there. To that end she has picked up a Novoflex adapter a couple of manual lenses (as recommended by me), a Contax 300 mm telephoto for the birds and a Yashica 55 mm macro for the flowers. Obviously there is the magnification factor to be taken into account given the size of the Fuji sensor.

My question is: can anybody recommend a full frame digital camera which does not have a byzantine menu system and which lends itself well to manual lenses? She'll only want second hand but it should also have decent build and image quality. My instinct is to think that there must be something suitable from Nikon or Canon but I am familiar with neither system. I can't imagine her being prepared to spend anything more than 1,000 quid.

Any suggestions?
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Hi, Andy, welcome to the forum! :)

As only the adaptation of manual SLR lenses is planned (not Leica M mount) the sensor stack thickness can be ignored.

I use SONY A7x cameras for adapting NIKON, Minolta, Olympus, Leitz R, Voigtländer, ZEISS manual lenses.

My recommendation SONY A7ii, can be bought for around € 700 new.

I can live with the menu ... You only access it when setting up the cam.
 
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This is a counterintuitive question.

DSLR’s aren’t really suitable for manual focussing. They’re designed from the floor up with AF in mind.

Then there’s the issue of having space for an adaptor, I believe Canon DSLR’s are the best option for having space due to a slim register and wider lens throat.

Mirrorless cameras OTOH are much better suited to adapting for MF lenses, unfortunately, both Canon and Nikon were a little late to the FF mirrorless party, so there’s not a wealth of ‘older’ ff mirrorless bodies from them. There are some though.

Sony were the best option for years, but they’re not particularly big and plenty of users don’t like their menu system.
 
Mirrorless is definitely the way forward for manual lens use as you get peaking and the magnified view. I think that if you have the time to focus manually manual focus on a mirrorless camera is the most accurate way to focus. I've been using manual lenses including film era ones on my Sony A7 for 10 years now.

Menus aren't really an issue as once you've set up your buttons and dials menu use can be very rare. I go into mine to format the card and other than that the only thing I do reguarly in the menus is dive in twice a year to set the clock.

I'd imagine you can get a MK1 Sony A7 for about £300-400 or so.
 
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You're asking essentially about my photography habits. Canon 5D original and 5DII have served me very well. My experience has been that the 5DIII sometimes throws an error message to do with not recognising the lens. That same lens and mount adapter work on the older variants without any issue at all.
 
Thank you for the replies. I'd completely forgotten about the existence of Sony and I wasn't aware that Canon and Nikon were slow to get into mirrorless.

My camera is a mirrorless and I agree that focus peaking is a marvellous thing.

I'll pass on the advice.

Thanks again.
 
woof woof said:
I'd imagine you can get a MK1 Sony A7 for about £300-400 or so.
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An A7II can be had for about £100 more and gets you in-body image stabilisation, which is pretty handy (and frankly quite amazing when using 50 year old lenses). You have to dial in the focal length you are using, but if you are using manual primes, it's not too much of a burden to do it when you switch lenses. Speaking from experience, IBIS is extremely useful with longer lenses like the 300mm, even if you are using a monopod, not least because it steadies the frame while you are composing.

The A7II is also much less prone to reflections off the sensor causing unwanted ghosting when shooting at night, if that's a consideration (it was for me).

A7III has newer style battery that lasts a lot longer than Sony's NP-FW50 in the older body and much improved high ISO performance. You can find a body for under £1000 without too much difficulty.
 
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JohnX said:
Used Pentax K1.
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I's second that, simply because of the superb optical viewfinder and the fact that anything works on the K-mount, coupled with the price, then I'd go Nikon D8*0 series. Knowledge of Canon system scant.
 
My opinion/confusion...

What state are the lenses in? If they are old, they are less likely to be optically perfect or have the coatings of modern lenses. What this means is that almost any full frame modern DSLR sensor isn't going to matter as the lens will be the weakest point in the [quality] chain. Ergonomics and menu systems then become the deciding factor.

Also, your OP suggests that this camera is for your friend, and that the X-E2 is a perfect fit. Are you getting her a camera so she can give you the X-E2 back? Or are you saying that the focal lengths are too long for the X-E2 and she needs full frame? Or do you need a bigger camera for yourself?

Something like the (used) A7C will hit your budget and has similar size to the Fuji. I know many people who have had success with using adapted lenses on them, but like Phil mentioned above, the menu systems are not intuitive. I've struggled quite a bit trying to find things on Sony & Panasonic cameras that my students had.
 
My apologies if I am being a bit dim or have missed something but we have an absolute beginner with an XE-2 with a kit lens , (presumably the 18-55 2.8-4 IS) who wants to take photographs of flowers and birds yet wants to use manual focus lenses on a FF camera , unless I have missed something this seems making life very difficult.
Whats wrong with a Fuji 60mm macro and a fuji XC 55-230 IS , both of which retain AF and balance very well on the XE-2.
 
welshwizard645 said:
I's second that, simply because of the superb optical viewfinder and the fact that anything works on the K-mount, coupled with the price, then I'd go Nikon D8*0 series. Knowledge of Canon system scant.
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Having used manual lenses with both optical and electronic viewfinders, I would always go with an EVF these days

Unless I am much mistaken, the K1 will not have any of the focus aids of a manual focus film SLR (split prism and/or fresnel ring).

Focusing Contax and OM manual lenses on a 12 Mpx Canon 5D accurately was challenging enough without them and the K1 has three times as many pixels to waste. If / when you need critical focus, enlargement in an EVF wins every time.
 
troutfisher said:
unless I have missed something this seems making life very difficult.
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Stated uses are "birds" and "flowers".

I'd worry about manual focus for birds unless they're very still but for flowers I could argue that a manual lens and a mirrorless camera with a magnified view is the best way to do it as although AF is quick and easy MF allows you to very accurately focus exactly where you want, if you have the time to focus.
 
woof woof said:
Stated uses are "birds" and "flowers".

I'd worry about manual focus for birds unless they're very still but for flowers I could argue that a manual lens and a mirrorless camera with a magnified view is the best way to do it as although AF is quick and easy MF allows you to very accurately focus exactly where you want, if you have the time to focus.
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Yes, I use MF for flowers on my XE-2 and 60mm macro-indoors on a tripod in good light not outdoors
 
Harlequin565 said:
My opinion/confusion...

What state are the lenses in? If they are old, they are less likely to be optically perfect or have the coatings of modern lenses. What this means is that almost any full frame modern DSLR sensor isn't going to matter as the lens will be the weakest point in the [quality] chain. Ergonomics and menu systems then become the deciding factor.

Also, your OP suggests that this camera is for your friend, and that the X-E2 is a perfect fit. Are you getting her a camera so she can give you the X-E2 back? Or are you saying that the focal lengths are too long for the X-E2 and she needs full frame? Or do you need a bigger camera for yourself?

Something like the (used) A7C will hit your budget and has similar size to the Fuji. I know many people who have had success with using adapted lenses on them, but like Phil mentioned above, the menu systems are not intuitive. I've struggled quite a bit trying to find things on Sony & Panasonic cameras that my students had.
Click to expand...
I play no part in this except as an advisor. I gave her the X-E2 because I just couldn't get on with it ergonomically. I had bought it because I thought it would be a perfect point and shoot to have in my rucksack for "just in case" moments. My normal camera is a somewhat bulky full frame mirrorless and I have a rangefinder too.

Because she wants to photograph her garden flowers close up, it occurred to me (and she agreed) that autofocus would bring no benefits, so she got a Yashica 55 mm macro in what looks like almost mint condition for about 50 quid. I picked up the Contax 300 mm for her at a bargain price for the birds which seem to sit quite obligingly still at the birdtable. The general condition of the two lenses is tiptop and the results she's got with them on the X-E2 seem absolutely fine. So far she's quite happy with the arrangement and still has the Fuji standard zoom which came with the camera for taking on walks etc. It occurred to me that she might as well get full frame value out of the Contax and Yashica lenses by getting a full frame camera. She surprised me with the stipulation of "no autofocus". It appears that she's not too enamoured with her experiences of the autofocus zoom on the X-E2.

I think it might be a good idea for her to try the ergonomic fit of e.g. a Sony AII in a camera shop and then she can make her mind up. As a result of the advice offered so far on here, it does look like a bargain and it does have the enormous benefit of focus peaking.
 
troutfisher said:
My apologies if I am being a bit dim or have missed something but we have an absolute beginner with an XE-2 with a kit lens , (presumably the 18-55 2.8-4 IS) who wants to take photographs of flowers and birds yet wants to use manual focus lenses on a FF camera , unless I have missed something this seems making life very difficult.
Whats wrong with a Fuji 60mm macro and a fuji XC 55-230 IS , both of which retain AF and balance very well on the XE-2.
Click to expand...
No, you're not being dim. If I recall correctly, the 18-55 mm is what came with the camera. She's happy with that for snaps but prefers the feeling of being in charge that the manual lenses give her when she's taking considered photographs. I can understand that as I think that much of the digital options in modern cameras can be confusing. How on earth is a beginner supposed to work his or her way around the menus? I must be honest in saying that I have a deal of sympathy with her view as I resent it every time it feels like a camera is trying to take a decision for me.
 
Badsnap said:
It occurred to me that she might as well get full frame value out of the Contax and Yashica lenses by getting a full frame camera
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Thanks for the reply Andy - that clears things up. So she's fully aware of the reach she'll lose on the 300mm by going full frame with the same lens? You mention her being happy with the bird table shots she's taking. I'm guessing you've explained she'll have to get physically closer to get the same field of view with a full frame camera. Many people specifically use smaller sensor cameras for birds because of that extra reach - even going down to Micro 4/3. I have a friend with an Olympus system and his bird work with a 300mm (effectively 600mm in FF terms) is quite stunning.
 
Harlequin565 said:
Thanks for the reply Andy - that clears things up. So she's fully aware of the reach she'll lose on the 300mm by going full frame with the same lens? You mention her being happy with the bird table shots she's taking. I'm guessing you've explained she'll have to get physically closer to get the same field of view with a full frame camera. Many people specifically use smaller sensor cameras for birds because of that extra reach - even going down to Micro 4/3. I have a friend with an Olympus system and his bird work with a 300mm (effectively 600mm in FF terms) is quite stunning.
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Yes, Ian. I've told her that it would be a good idea to get a Contax 2X converter. At the moment I believe the 300 is effectively 450 on the X-E2, so with a converter she would have 300 and 600 which I imagine would cover all the bases.
 
Badsnap said:
Yes, Ian. I've told her that it would be a good idea to get a Contax 2X converter. At the moment I believe the 300 is effectively 450 on the X-E2, so with a converter she would have 300 and 600 which I imagine would cover all the bases.
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I'd advise against using a 2x TC with an old, adapted lens.
Although it will double the effective focal length, it does so at the cost of 2 stops of light (so if it's an f/4 lens, it will be f/8 with a 2x tc), and some degradation of image quality (how much will depend on the lens and specific tc).
 
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